g.u wideboat progress

[magnetman]

This image was posted by someone earlier as well. 

 

 

 

Odd detail if one lamp was higher than the other. Of course with the boat fully loaded everything would be lower in the water so maybe they were okay with the bridges.

It does look unruly so was perhaps just because Bushells the boat builder were used to building seagoing boats and had standard arrangements for provision of suitable navigation lights. 

Can't tell from the photo of the model but it seems they may have missed the fact the cabin was of steel with a folded over top and a line of bolts (or rivets?) holding the top on. Some GU motor narrow boats had this arrangement for the engine room section. 

 

 

Brass bolts I believe so they didn't rust.

[David Marks]

On 15/03/2023 at 10:37, David Marks said:

Does anyone know if Chris Collins managed to get any boatyard drawings for Progress from what would have been at the time British Waterways? I am a keen model boater and would like to model "Progress". I can remember her when she was a tug operated by BW back in the 50s and early 60s operated by Sam Griffiths and Bill Knibbs.

 

I have obtained  from C&RT, some yard drawings for Progress so that I can commence producing my own drawings for a 1:24 scale model but noted that the Overall Length ws defined as 75 feet although the maximum length on the GU South where she operated is 72 feet. Also the drawing give two different cabins i.e. one longer than the other, so I have opted for teh longer version as it will make (to me) a more pleasing model. I have decided to use the BW colour scheme of blue and yellow from when she operated out of Bulls Bridge. I have a couple of question which possibly Tam and Di murrell can answer: 

 

Did BW continue to use the wheel steering or did the convert her to tiller steering,  also was the winch originally fitted to the bow still in place during her BW days?

 

Finally, attached is my latest model as my previous image of Troy went down well. This one is a freelance gravel pit tug in 1:12 scale.

 

Regards  David Marks

[magnetman]

5 hours ago, David Marks said:

 

 Length ws defined as 75 feet although the maximum length on the GU South where she operated is 72 feet. Also the drawing give two different cabins i.e. one longer than the other, so I have opted for teh longer version as it will make (to me) a more pleasing model. I have decided to use the BW colour scheme of blue and yellow from when she operated out of Bulls Bridge. I have a couple of question which possibly Tam and Di murrell can answer: 

 

Did BW continue to use the wheel steering or did the convert her to tiller steering,  also was the winch originally fitted to the bow still in place during her BW days?

 

Finally, attached is my latest model as my previous image of Troy went down well. This one is a freelance gravel pit tug in 1:12 scale.

 

Regards  David Marks

 

 

Lovely. Model Boats are very cool. 

 

I have tagged @Tam & Di in case they don't see your post. 

 

In terms of lock length I think there was a point where GU locks are slightly longer than 72ft but not sure where it is. Regents canal barges were 76ft. 

 

 

[Tam & Di]

75' is right as I recall. We did cruise several times to Braunston and once to Sampson Road Birmingtham with no great trouble.

[Captain Pegg]

It’s worth remembering that the published maximum craft dimensions have their origins in the size of boats recorded using the waterway at a specific point in time and not in the actual size of the infrastructure.

[Tam & Di]

11 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

75' is right as I recall. We did cruise several times to Braunston and once to Sampson Road Birmingtham with no great trouble.

 I see from previous posts I noted the dimensions as 74' x 12' 6".

 

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

It’s worth remembering that the published maximum craft dimensions have their origins in the size of boats recorded using the waterway at a specific point in time and not in the actual size of the infrastructure.

That may be the case now, I don't know, but published dimensions certainly used to be determined by the infrastructure. Despite Progress being built for the GUCCC I've never seen published dimension of the GU listed as 74' length. Use of the canal was certainly a factor at the point several were being classed as 'remainder waterways', and the K&A could not be closed as a canoist was able to prove he had used it in the previous 12 months.

Edited February 24 by Tam & Di

[Pluto]

10 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

That may be the case now, I don't know, but published dimensions certainly used to be determined by the infrastructure. Despite Progress being built for the GUCCC I've never seen published dimension of the GU listed as 74' length. Use of the canal was certainly a factor at the point several were being classed as 'remainder waterways', and the K&A could not be closed as a canoist was able to prove he had used it in the previous 12 months.

I have just looked at the official returns for the Royal Commission, and dimensions seem to be based on lock size, Grand Junction locks varying in length from 70ft 4in to 82ft 9in. All the L&LC lists I have produced by the company were in full lock dimensions. Maximum boat size seems to have been introduced in the 1960s by BW.

[alan_fincher]

A British Waterways Maximum Craft Dimensions document that I have a filed copy of lists the following maxima for the GU.

 

Brentford to Braunston        76 feet

Braunston to Camp Hill        78 feet

 

The fact that Progress has been able to make it to the outskirts of Birmingham certainly proves that an oft quoted maximum length of 72 feet for the GU is decidedly pessimistic

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Pluto said:

Maximum boat size seems to have been introduced in the 1960s by BW.

Presumably this was related to maintenance obligations on canals whose future use would be mostly by pleasure Boats. 

 

There was a story on the K&A where the published dimensions were too big and a barge got stuck exiting a lock. 

 

I don't know but seem to think the reaction was to reduce the maximum craft dimensions on the guidance literature. 

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

The legal obligation as enshrined in the 1967 Transport Act (for which the actual dimensions concerned were published in the Fraenkel report) is 72’ 0” x 12’ 6” between Berkhamsted and Camp Hill.
 

This particularly requirement is directly replicated in CRT’s current published information and it seemed to me that was likely to be the point of reference that sparked this debate. In other cases the current published dimensions vary from the legal requirements to reflect the differing factors pertinent to modern usage of the waterways versus the 1960s.

 

There are instances where the 1967 legal requirements include dimensions larger than the locks on the waterway concerned.

[Pluto]

These are the GJC dimensions given in the 1907 Royal Commission report:

[David Marks]

Many thanks for the info regarding the length of Progress. Although I am producing the plans for the model, the actual build is some distance away, so it is easy enough the lengthen the model by 1.5 inches. most of the cargo area is made up of bulkheads which are all the same size, so it is just a question of inserting an extra bulkhead.

 

Any info regarding the steering system. I can replicate the ships wheel + chain and quadrant but wonder if BW converted the vessel to the more common tiller steering.

 

Thanks - David Marks