g.u wideboat progress

[ditchcrawler]

UPDATE:

 

Well there is after all a "Buckby" connection, but, as I suspected, it has nowt to do with the GUCCCo, as it wasn't until some 10 years after the waterways were nationalised. (Well, at least if you believe Narrow Boat" magazine).

 

To quote:

 

 

 

I'm surprised it says "near Knowle" for the narrow bridge, as the ones usually quoted on the GU Birmingham line as not being full clearance are normally much earlier - Blue Lias being one, I think.

Can be interesting sitting on the grass outside the Blue Lias and watch two boats come up from Shop Lock breasted and unable to get under the bridge.

[chris collins]

So, apparently you can water ski at 12 knots,”Progress” + Lister jp 11 ½ ? Possibly not. A few posts back aMModels posed the good question as to whether I had a plan of action with the rebuild, my apologies for the delay in answering, the answer is yes, albeit a flexible one. The fundamental tenet is to restore the boat as accurately and true to the original as possible, after that the plan has to juggle the myriad of influencing factors, I'll try and give a bit more detail in future posts.
As with any extensive boat restoration the first job is to establish a datum from which other measurements can be established,with the long straight flat bottoms on narrowboats/ wideboats this is much easier to establish and maintain. The long straight flat section provides an ideal starting platform for the rebuild.Like most narrowboats originally the bottom boards where of English elm, the advantages of this species were its availability in wide boards, it's interlocking grain structure gives good wear resistance plus the fact that pre Dutch elm disease it was economical. The disadvantage is that although it lasts well either in the submerged or completely dry states it hates being damp, or, more correctly there are a some fungi that really enjoy the hospitality of damp elm.

 

SPA50292 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Unfortunately Dutch elm disease wiped out almost all of the elms in Britain, very occasionally small parcels become available but generally the quality is not suitable for boat bottom boards.
Now the intention is to restore “Progress” as closely as possible to the original specification, and I really hate to deviate from that aim, but, if the choice is expensive substandard elm or an alternative (and possibly more durable) timber then humble pie is my dinner. In this case the alternative was Opepe, a.k.a Badi. Bilinga & Kussia - good wide boards, stable, and durable, if Bushell bros could have obtained it at the time of the original build I'm sure they would have been sorely tempted.(all this with the caveat that the Opepe may be a little less wear resistant than the Elm). This log was a real peach, with very little heart shake, almost no faults and only a narrow band of sapwood.


SPA50291 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

It yielded a good number of boards like this one, at 34'' wide it's a quick way of getting along the boat and will save a lot of caulking.


SPA50339 by chriscollins1, on Flickr


After trimming off the sap wood and any faults, in the absence of a super long bed power plane this jig helps get an accurate joint face, it'll get to within 6 thou of an inch quite quickly and with a minimum of fuss.


SPA50311 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

A few strokes with this gets that down to 2 or 3 thou, it used to be my grand uncles and I used to watch him use it when I was around five so to be using it now is quite emotive. When it's sharp the plane will take a shaving of just under 2thou but to keep this edge it needs sharpening every couple of boards, if you try and use it after this point the extra downward pressure tends to distort the sole ever so slightly and although it will carry on cutting you lose the accuracy.


SPA50307 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Caulking seam, I'll admit to being a bit parsimonious with caulking seams these days but really I want the wood to be keeping the water out.


SPA50309 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

As with the fore end the boards where laid out away from the boat, a series of measurements are then taken from the boat and laid out on the boards. Laying it out like this allows plenty of diagonals to be struck ensuring that both sides stay the same. It also saves copying any little mistakes that may have crept into the original.


SPA50342 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

A few of the intact old boards are overlaid, just to check..........


SPA50341 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

The boards are then cut and ready for fitting.


SPA50343 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

5MAVYtzg.html

Edited August 19, 2016 by Theo
Experiment that failed for some reason

[Basyfart]

A great pleasure to see the work and progress you are making and I watch with great interest. Look forward to coming up to your yard with Andrew Hall some time early in the year. Regards Martin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, apparently you can water ski at 12 knots,”Progress” + Lister jp 11 ½ ? Possibly not. A few posts back aMModels posed the good question as to whether I had a plan of action with the rebuild, my apologies for the delay in answering, the answer is yes, albeit a flexible one. The fundamental tenet is to restore the boat as accurately and true to the original as possible, after that the plan has to juggle the myriad of influencing factors, I'll try and give a bit more detail in future posts.

As with any extensive boat restoration the first job is to establish a datum from which other measurements can be established,with the long straight flat bottoms on narrowboats/ wideboats this is much easier to establish and maintain. The long straight flat section provides an ideal starting platform for the rebuild.Like most narrowboats originally the bottom boards where of English elm, the advantages of this species were its availability in wide boards, it's interlocking grain structure gives good wear resistance plus the fact that pre Dutch elm disease it was economical. The disadvantage is that although it lasts well either in the submerged or completely dry states it hates being damp, or, more correctly there are a some fungi that really enjoy the hospitality of damp elm.

 

SPA50292 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Unfortunately Dutch elm disease wiped out almost all of the elms in Britain, very occasionally small parcels become available but generally the quality is not suitable for boat bottom boards.

Now the intention is to restore “Progress” as closely as possible to the original specification, and I really hate to deviate from that aim, but, if the choice is expensive substandard elm or an alternative (and possibly more durable) timber then humble pie is my dinner. In this case the alternative was Opepe, a.k.a Badi. Bilinga & Kussia - good wide boards, stable, and durable, if Bushell bros could have obtained it at the time of the original build I'm sure they would have been sorely tempted.(all this with the caveat that the Opepe may be a little less wear resistant than the Elm). This log was a real peach, with very little heart shake, almost no faults and only a narrow band of sapwood.

 

SPA50291 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

It yielded a good number of boards like this one, at 34'' wide it's a quick way of getting along the boat and will save a lot of caulking.

 

SPA50339 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

 

After trimming off the sap wood and any faults, in the absence of a super long bed power plane this jig helps get an accurate joint face, it'll get to within 6 thou of an inch quite quickly and with a minimum of fuss.

 

SPA50311 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

A few strokes with this gets that down to 2 or 3 thou, it used to be my grand uncles and I used to watch him use it when I was around five so to be using it now is quite emotive. When it's sharp the plane will take a shaving of just under 2thou but to keep this edge it needs sharpening every couple of boards, if you try and use it after this point the extra downward pressure tends to distort the sole ever so slightly and although it will carry on cutting you lose the accuracy.

 

SPA50307 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Caulking seam, I'll admit to being a bit parsimonious with caulking seams these days but really I want the wood to be keeping the water out.

 

SPA50309 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

As with the fore end the boards where laid out away from the boat, a series of measurements are then taken from the boat and laid out on the boards. Laying it out like this allows plenty of diagonals to be struck ensuring that both sides stay the same. It also saves copying any little mistakes that may have crept into the original.

 

SPA50342 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

A few of the intact old boards are overlaid, just to check..........

 

SPA50341 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

The boards are then cut and ready for fitting.

 

SPA50343 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

[PuffinHull]

Here are two pictures from my collection showing her as new.

These are contact prints taken directly from the original glass negatives. I believe Milner took the photos.

 

 

What a beautiful craft.

[chris collins]

It is indeed a beautiful craft, and maybe time for a second look at this picture and some of the others that have been passed on. I'd hazard a guess that this was taken during the final fitting out stage as some of the fittings that are detailed on the drawings and appear in later shots have yet to be fitted. Be nice to ask the man who left his jacket in the e/r hatch. Maybe we could also ask him what is in the hold? It's clearly very light. The picture has a feel of mid to late summer about it but I could be wrong.

 

progress l. hogg by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

This picture gives little clue to the time of year, you'd feel March or April but it would only be a guess. Certainly doesn't seem to be warranting a great deal of celebration, I think I might be a bit more elated when I get to that stage. The launching is at quite a shallow angle so would almost certainly need to be on wheeled trucks rather than the normal greased skids, not as spectacular but literally, what ever floats your boat.

 

SCAN0005 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Luckily this one is easily dated, 30th October 1934. Plenty of ballast plus a host of the great and the good.

 

SCAN0001 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

 

Bushell bros used this shot of the boat with it's full repertoire of fittings and looking suitably shiny for some publicity literature. Possibly taken before the October 30th outing?

 

bushells publicity by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

This one is a little odd, the boat still has all it's fittings in place, it looks like midwinter, the paintwork is looking a little stained as though it may have sat unkempt through the leaf fall. This does highlight another quirk, as built, and without a load it is impossible to get the propeller sufficiently immersed to avoid one huge cavitation problem, indeed it would take around fifteen tons of ballast in way of the engine room and back cabin to stand a realistic chance of making it to the loading destination. I really don't believe that this is just oversight, naval architecture was well advanced by this stage and the blueprints are very competent in other respects so I'm pretty sure that the designer(s) would have done the the maths and passed it as fit for purpose. The drawings of the steel boat show ballast tanks built into the counter, these would have helped but are not big enough to be a total solution. It's tempting to think that there was a two way traffic in mind, maybe along the lines of raw material in/ processed goods out, this is of course mere conjecture and really needs more research. Now, I do appreciate that any of the motor narrow boats have a similar but less extreme problem and an empty motor + butty + windy day = a right b*****d, but “Progress” empty ? just about any movement would have been a miracle.

It's interesting that after the initial flurry of build/launch/publicity shots there seems to be nothing until the later B.W shots. In some ways it is even stranger that there is only one (to my knowledge)

shot of “Pioneer”, it's an attractive boat and presumably would have found some work along the lower reaches of the G.U?

 

20 Progress by chriscollins1, on Flickr

[furnessvale]

 

This does highlight another quirk, as built, and without a load it is impossible to get the propeller sufficiently immersed to avoid one huge cavitation problem, indeed it would take around fifteen tons of ballast in way of the engine room and back cabin to stand a realistic chance of making it to the loading destination.

 

 

Looking at the really big barges on the Rhine when running empty you can often see virtually half the prop, so I am sure the problem was not insurmountable.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[mykaskin]

Looking at the really big barges on the Rhine when running empty you can often see virtually half the prop, so I am sure the problem was not insurmountable.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

When you start getting to size of prop that are feet rather than inches I suspect you are right, but the prop on Progress would still ventilate like a pig - mine does when the counter is out of the water, and the whole prop is in the water then!

 

I would wonder if the bilges are designed to flood? Most boats looking like this are dry, no diesel or often engine, but I assume these images were with the boat ready to run?

 

Mike

[bargemast]

Looking at the really big barges on the Rhine when running empty you can often see virtually half the prop, so I am sure the problem was not insurmountable.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

 

I must admit that it's a couple of years I haven't been on the Rhine, but I've rarely seen barges there with virtually half the prop out of the water when running empty, but if you see part of the prop above the water, and the barge moving fairly fast, it's only because they have a (half) tunnel over the prop, and once that's filled with the water the prop is pulling, it acts more or less like a jet and gives a powerful push, but there will be next to no reverse at all like that.

 

Without a tunnel you wouldn't get far with the prop half out of the water, and you'll have lots of vibrations that would do damage to the sterngland, and possibly even to the prop.

 

Peter.

 

Peter.

[Pluto]

What you need is Barcroft's semi-immersed propellor. It was originally a way of converting horse boats to motor cheaply, and on paper there is not a great drop in efficiency given the low speed. One was tried on the L&LC; around the sharp bends at East Marton it tried to walk out of the canal sideways,

 

[alan_fincher]

One was tried on the L&LC; around the sharp bends at East Marton it tried to walk out of the canal sideways,

If you have two of them, why on earth would you not make each oppositely handed, so that the prop-walk effect of one was cancelled out by the other?

[Timleech]

If you have two of them, why on earth would you not make each oppositely handed, so that the prop-walk effect of one was cancelled out by the other?

 

The pair in the picture are opposite handed, but are apparently in Ireland.

Possible the Short Boat only had a single unit.

 

If you've ever steered a Short Boat around the Marton Pool, you might have some appreciation as to what Pluto is talking about.

 

Tim

[alan_fincher]

The pair in the picture are opposite handed.....

 

Are they?

 

Certainly it would make sense, but I couldn't convince myself they were.

 

My eyes perhaps, but I'm still not really seeing it.

[Timleech]

Are they?

 

Certainly it would make sense, but I couldn't convince myself they were.

 

My eyes perhaps, but I'm still not really seeing it.

 

I see the Port hand prop as Right handed, & the Starboard one as left-handed.

 

Tim

[IanM]

Look both the same to me...

[alan_fincher]

At least one of us needs to visit an optician, but I can say that without being rude, because I know I have a reminded to do so buried somewhere under a heap of papers here!

[Timleech]

At least one of us needs to visit an optician, but I can say that without being rude, because I know I have a reminded to do so buried somewhere under a heap of papers here!

 

I had my eyes tested last week. My new specs are waiting to be collected - but I don't wear them for computering.

 

Tim

[Pluto]

The problem was that the props caught on the sloping sides at sharp bends and then tried to wind the boat out sideways. There were around a dozen boats which used the system, and with Mr Barcroft coming from Newry, the Newry Canal was the main location, though they were also tried on the Grand Canal out of Dublin. The boat tried on the L&LC does seem to have been one of the Irish ones, so the question arises as to how they crossed the Irish Sea. One trip boat, based at Newry and used on tidal waters, did use the system, so perhaps it was better in deep water. I think the one illustrated has a horizontal diesel engine on deck, but others had steam engines, and Barcroft did produce a design for using electricity, with the electric motors directly coupled to thew props. He was into electricity as he built the Bessbrook and Newry electric tramway.

[chris collins]

So, further behind with the job, further behind with the updates. With the view to the stem looking good with new bottom boards and a few planks the view to the stern is a little less appealing.

 

SPA50316 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

I'll have to admit that I haven't ever got up in the morning thinking “ whoopee doo I've got a set of engine beds to take out today” that said they are not normally as bad as you'd expect, thank heavens for oil and diesel leaks. It is worth rigging something to press out the bolts as any attempt to hammer them out normally mushrooms the ends which then defy further movement.

 

SPA50330 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

The kelsons are jointed with hooked scarphs, neither bottom board or kelson where originally luted with any form of coating, and although normally these faces last well, (probably due to the lack of oxygen) a little helping hand shouldn't go amiss.

 

SPA50007 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

The scarph is through bolted and draws up nicely. The joint is 5 foot long and whilst they are a bit fiddly to make they are very strong when finished, I normally mark them out from a template but a spile would work equally well.

 

SPA50010 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

SPA50011 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

Looking a bit better, juggling to keep the boat supported whilst getting the bottom boards underneath.

 

SPA50072 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

 

One of the reasons that I am behind with the job and behind with the updates is that I am just plain slow, another lesser reason is that there are plenty of other things that need doing, with the recent poor weather it seemed like a good idea to sort out an oil pressure problem on the National installed in “Mimas”. I'll put a few more pictures and a few observations in the vintage engine section when I get time.

 

SPA50347 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

[Pluto]

I have been given Geoff Wheat's slide collection following his recent death, and am starting to scan them. Amongst them, I came across this photo of Progress at Rickmansworth in 1967.

[Pluto]

Another Geoff Wheat Progress photo, this time in 1971 at Bishops Stortford.

[chris collins]

 

Pluto, many thanks for the pictures, I think that the first one is probably at the benbow moorings at Uxbridge, I'm hoping that Tam or Di might be able to shed a bit more light. Once again thanks for your input.

[chris collins]

 

All kelsons in place.

SPA50130 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

And the view from underneath. Wont be so chirpy at caulking time will I?

SPA50113 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

This is a lovely picture of “Progress” in the build with lots of points to note, in particular it shows the unusual curved transition between the swim planks and the counter bottom, should make things interesting! I didn't notice the height of the sternpost at first, when I did I just assumed that it was cut off later in the build as per narrowboat practice – no – it really is that tall and finishes just under the deck.

SCAN0004 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

The two big rusty looking nuts above and below the stern tube are attached to a couple of of bolts just over thirty inches long that go through the deadwood and through the sternpost, the sternpost is too big to extract with the deadwood so they and the stertube need to come out.

SPA50114 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Although those bolts where a battle to get out they where a comparative doddle compared to the sterntube, I've never had much trouble with the other boats I've worked on but this certainly made up for having an easy life in the past. The bearing was seized into the tube, so, cobble together a puller – zilch- cut away the sternpost and apply a bit of heat – zilch – hours of hot/ cold cycles eventually saw it out, naturally the flange was seized to the tube and the tube was seized in the post/deadwood .

SPA50134 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

I was quite keen to maintain the integrity of the hood ends of the planks for the moment so the fastenings where extracted with a bit of care.

SPA50147 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

The deck cut ready to lift out the sternpost.

SPA50136 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Which opens a window of opportunity for a photograph if nothing else.

SPA50007 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

The old and the embryonic new.

SPA50149 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

A template was taken for the hoodings to ensure that both sides match, the hoodings are then cut slightly short and shallower to allow for an accurate trim in situ.

SPA50005 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Some photo's of a growing pile of shavings, oh and a sternpost taking shape

SPA50008 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

SPA50011 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

SPA50013 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

SPA50014 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Crane drivers view, being both driver and banksman makes for an energetic time – it also makes it easy to lay the blame if something goes wrong.

SPA50019 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

Luckily it fits.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7446/9034451493_9d6fbb3d87.jpg
SPA50021 by chriscollins1, on Flickr

[Chris Pink]

Sometimes some things are just too awesome for words. This is one such.

[stagedamager]

I concur, I love this thread, if i had 1% of this talent i would be happy, I personally believe Chris is one, if not the best wooden boatbuilder on the cut, but i agree about the bottom caulking!

Keep up the good work, one day i would love to look around the yard!

 

Regards

Dan

[gazza]

It's a bit good isn't it?