Water coming in rear doors

[davewally]

Hi all,

 

No, its not sinking.

 

We have an ex Black Prince boat with a Reeves hull, cruiser stern.

From the rear deck there is a step down to the doors. When it rains the water level builds up until it comes over the cill into the boat.

Also the bottom of the rear doors sit in the water which doesn't do much for the wooden lining.

 

I can't see any built in method of drining this.

My question is how are these steps normally drained and where to?

 

If I just drill a drainage hole I think it will hit the engine bigle not the main bilge, giving me a watery oily mess to empty out.

It may be high enough to add a plastic pipe going out the air vent.

If thats the answer are there any fittings available to drain the step and join to plastic tubing?

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Roger Gunkel]

How about a bilge pump just for that area?

 

Roger

[tony collins]

There must be a way for the water to escape even if only into the bilge. Are the engine boards original? I just wonder if they have been replaced because of a sloppy fit. It may have been that sloppy fit which was designed to let the water out. If not a small fitting similar to the one through the hull for the sink drain fitted in that area with a bit of tubing attached so it can go wherever you wish it.

[WotEver]

I agree with Tony - Reeves would have designed that area to drain when they built the boat (they're quite proud of the extra-large size of their drain channels), so you need to investigate why it's not draining now. Lift the boards and find out how the channels are supposed to drain, then work out why they're not.

 

Tony

[RobinJ]

No, its not sinking.

 

We have an ex Black Prince boat with a Reeves hull, cruiser stern.

From the rear deck there is a step down to the doors. When it rains the water level builds up until it comes over the cill into the boat.

Also the bottom of the rear doors sit in the water which doesn't do much for the wooden lining.

 

I can't see any built in method of drining this.

My question is how are these steps normally drained and where to?

 

If I just drill a drainage hole I think it will hit the engine bigle not the main bilge, giving me a watery oily mess to empty out.

It may be high enough to add a plastic pipe going out the air vent.

If thats the answer are there any fittings available to drain the step and join to plastic tubing?

Most of the designs of exterior steps use a similar system, under the bottom step there should be a well. I'm not sure if any have been designed any other way, but all the ones I have seen including mine have drain holes or a pipe which leads into the engine bilge. It is necessary every once in a while to clear these out as they get blocked with leaves and other crap!

In my case the whole thing is held on with three screws, but there are a variety of step structures in wood and metal so it will vary?

[Tony Brooks]

If all else fails you may well be able to fit a skin fitting through the step and put a hose on it to direct the water to the side bilge. Skin fittings in a variety of sizes should be available from good chandlers. If you want a cheaper option a plumbers tank fitting will also do the job. However the hose is likely to block so regular application of the tank filling hose should be the easiest way of cleaning a hose with bends in it.

[paulcatchpole]

Most of the designs of exterior steps use a similar system, under the bottom step there should be a well. I'm not sure if any have been designed any other way, but all the ones I have seen including mine have drain holes or a pipe which leads into the engine bilge. It is necessary every once in a while to clear these out as they get blocked with leaves and other crap!

In my case the whole thing is held on with three screws, but there are a variety of step structures in wood and metal so it will vary?

 

The BPs I've seen have a drain pipe welded into one corner of the step, as Robin says.

 

Are you sure it doesn't have a very blocked one?

 

Where's BSP when you need her, she's got an ex-BP.

 

PC

[nb Innisfree]

Due to a low point in our drainage channels on our cruiser deck instead of a skin fitting I fitted a couple of basin plug holes, a much lower profile than a SF so water didn't pool as much, I kept slapped some blacking on until it had built up flush with the plug hole surround. A much better way but more trouble to do is to cut a large hole then weld a plate underneath so a fitting can be fixed in that to give a flush surface. If you decide to with one of these methods use a large diameter one to minimise blockages and make cleaning easier.

[BlueStringPudding]

The BPs I've seen have a drain pipe welded into one corner of the step, as Robin says.

 

Are you sure it doesn't have a very blocked one?

 

Where's BSP when you need her, she's got an ex-BP.

 

PC

 

My Black Prince has the corner pipe inside the step. It blocks with just a molecule of dust and is utterly useless if the boat is listing even slightly the other way. When I bought the boat this step had flooded enough times for rainwater to come into the back cabin and rot the floors and fill the cabin bilge. The boatyard drilled a hole in the opposite corner of the step to allow water to spill into the engine bilge and carefully positioned it so the water would land on the starter alternator and fan belts.

 

These days I put a disposable nappy in the back step as heavy rain can fill it to door-step height very quickly. I replace it once every couple of months unless in the autumn when a couple are needed. I've not had any water get in since doing that.

[rjasmith]

Could you not have a word with Reeves about this? I'm sure they would help once you described the problem and what you know of the boat's history.

 

Like others, I can't believe they didn't design in a means of drainage for this obvious water trap. It may have proved to be prone to blocking or ineffective sometimes but I expect they'd know all about that too (from past complaints)!!

 

They probably also know of their own approved mod to make it work better.

 

Richard

[Odana]

Another boat here with a small, easily-blocked, pipe leading off one corner of the bottom well below the step. This leads to the outside of the hull. I keep a bent-out coat hanger available for regular cleanage.

 

If you can't find a blocked or painted-over pipe somewhere, the easiest thing may be to drill one (each side if possible) and insert a pipe or hose leading to a more convenient drain than your back cabin! A wide-mesh grille over the entrance will keep the worst of the twigs and leaves out of the pipe - still have to keep an eye on both though.

[Martin Kedian]

I used to build Black Prince boats at Reeves as far as I am aware they all had a drain in the step it may have been missed during the build but often in heavy rain the step would fill up one solution would be to take off the doors and plate 2 inches up with steel on the inside thus protecting the wood a new drain with and overboard pipe would solve your problem the Black Prince boats are now built by Probuild narrow boats and the step runs into a cross chanel which runs outboard along the bulkhead and under the steel deck I spend some of my time subcontracting to them If you want any further help/advise I would be pleased to be of assistance best wishes Martin Kedian [Kedian Eng Ltd ] Kedianengineering@googlemail.com

Edited June 3, 2011 by Martin Kedian

[davewally]

Hi all,

 

thanks for the replies.

 

Like you I thought it unlikely that Reeves/BP would build a boat that fills with water when it rains.

I have had a good look at the step and can see no signs of a hole. It could of couse have been painted over.

I won't get back to the boat for about a month but then I will get below it for a good look.

I will take some pictures and find out how to post them.

 

Is it possible that it is draining into the cabin side of the bulkhead? This boat doesn't have a waterproof bulkhead between the engine and the cabin. There is a steel bulkhead but the bottom corners are chamfered by a couple of inches at the corners between the base and the sides allowing water to flow through.

 

This then raises the question of should these chamfers be filled in to stop the boat filling up if the stern takes on water?

I could bond some plates on to do this or weld them up at the next blacking.

 

If I add a drain I want it to be flush. If a small amount of water remains my wife and myself can step over it but I doubt if I can teach the Sasha the dog to do this on the way in.

 

If possible I don't want it draining into the bilge as it is now dry with all this good weather. Keeping it dry when possible seems a good idea to me as I don't want the boat to rust from the inside out, or isn't this a problem?

 

 

Once again thanks for the replies. this a great forum with lots of advice and humour.

 

Dave

[saltysplash]

If possible I don't want it draining into the bilge as it is now dry with all this good weather. Keeping it dry when possible seems a good idea to me as I don't want the boat to rust from the inside out, or isn't this a problem?

 

 

Once again thanks for the replies. this a great forum with lots of advice and humour.

 

Dave

 

 

Its not unusual for drainoffs to drain into a bilge, You could as mentioned before fit a domestic sink plug hole into the base and then attach suitable piping to then drain out of another skin fitting which you could put in the hull.

 

Not too big a job and with a large diameter drain it should cope with most rain fall.

[Nickhlx]

Its not unusual for drainoffs to drain into a bilge, You could as mentioned before fit a domestic sink plug hole into the base and then attach suitable piping to then drain out of another skin fitting which you could put in the hull.

 

Not too big a job and with a large diameter drain it should cope with most rain fall.

 

 

Another thought if the step level to be drained is lower than the water line is to let it drain into a separate container in the e.g. engine bilge, and have a small bilge pump arrangement to empty that to somewhere more suitable, not necessarily a new skin fitting

 

Nick

[davewally]

Hi all,

 

I got back to the boat and took some photos.

I must have been hungover or a total plonker to miss this.

 

 

A bit of prodding about with a screwdriver revealed this

 

 

So, problem solved.

There is a hole drilled, found by prodding, on the other side draining into the bilge. I think I will put a bolt and washer on this and hope it drains to the left. It will be ok until the poo tank fills and causes the boat to lean left (take cover?).

 

My other question.

 

The picture below shows the hole in the bulkhead. Is it a good ideas to plate this over?

 

 

 

Thanks for the replies. I agreed that Black Prince/Reeves wouldn't leave the back step to fill.

I don't know how I missed the pipe!

 

Dave

 

ps this is my first attempt at posting photos. I hope it works.

[Martin Kedian]

Good morning the holes in the bottom of your bulkhead were asked for to enable the escape of water in the event of a water leak in the main cabin there is a pump in the engine room to remove it many older boats had what is termed as a wet bilge it would be fine to seal tham up and make it a dry bilge one point to note is that the filler pipe to your water tank located in the front deck simply screws in to a stainless steel tank it is not usualy sealed in around the top to the welded in tube it passes through so sealing it with silicon is a good idea yours is probably mild steel and may rust I do have some plated water pipes that dont rust if you would like one please pm me regards Martin [Kedian eng ltd]

Edited June 15, 2011 by Martin Kedian

[Old Son]

Rather than a hole through the bottom, could you not cut a slot along the line of the step? I have done this to the rear of my deck and it works very well. It would be very difficult for it to block.

[Tony Brooks]

Good morning the holes in the bottom of your bulkhead were asked for to enable the escape of water in the event of a water leak in the main cabin there is a pump in the engine room to remove it many older boats had what is termed as a wet bilge it would be fine to seal tham up and make it a dry bilge one point to note is that the filler pipe to your water tank located in the front deck simply screws in to a stainless steel tank it is not usualy sealed in around the top to the welded in tube it passes through so sealing it with silicon is a good idea yours is probably mild steel and may rust I do have some plated water pipes that dont rust if you would like one please pm me regards Martin [Kedian eng ltd]

 

 

A while ago we had a luminary from one of the big hire fleets telling us that they made "all in one" bilges so any internal gas leak would find its way into the engine bilge where the bilge pump would pump it overboard.

 

Now I think that is a load of bilge because I doubt the bilge pump is certified as safe for use in explosive environments and I also doubt it would pump a gas. However that is what the forum was told. I think it may have been BP.

 

 

Martin, is your comment specific to BP boats because my old Colecraft has welded in water pipes making the well deck and lockers completely watertight?

[RLWP]

A while ago we had a luminary from one of the big hire fleets telling us that they made "all in one" bilges so any internal gas leak would find its way into the engine bilge where the bilge pump would pump it overboard.

 

Now I think that is a load of bilge because I doubt the bilge pump is certified as safe for use in explosive environments and I also doubt it would pump a gas. However that is what the forum was told. I think it may have been BP.

 

 

Martin, is your comment specific to BP boats because my old Colecraft has welded in water pipes making the well deck and lockers completely watertight?

 

How would it know to pump the gas out? Does it have a special gas-detector float switch? Do the sparks from the motor just blow the boat up?

 

It sounds like bollocks to me too Tony

 

Richard

[Martin Kedian]

Hi Tony my comment was regarding B/P pipes as this is the way they are done easy fix weld round pipe or seal with silicone regards Martin