Canal Marina Mania

[Josher]

Wow. A storm brewing on this one in "Boating Business" ...

 

Original article "Canal Marina Mania – the end of the line?" here

 

Response (from Phil Spencer, National Boating Trade Manager, British Waterways) and counter response from Tim Coghlan Braunston Marina here

[larkshall]

I'd like to know where there are unused berths in and around York, residential or otherwise

[matty40s]

The Lee and Stort Proposals are being introduced because BW says there is congestion.........

 

but Tim states....

BW claims to ignore this issue because private boat congestion cannot be accurately measured ....i]

[Naughty Cal]

Personally Im looking forward to further information on the proposed marina developments at both Cherry Willingham on the Witham and Stainforth near Doncaster. They will bring much needed competition for high quality fully serviced berths in the area.

[Djuwenda]

Wow. A storm brewing on this one in "Boating Business" ...

 

Original article "Canal Marina Mania – the end of the line?" here

 

Response (from Phil Spencer, National Boating Trade Manager, British Waterways) and counter response from Tim Coghlan Braunston Marina here

 

 

I was rather annoyed at Mr Coghlan's original article which I read in Towpath Talk. Why BW should deprive itself of a sizable revenue just to protect the established players interest is beyong me

 

Surely Mr Coghlan does not expect boaters to support his position?

 

The figure of 250 empty berths in an area which offers a total of 2500 seems absolutely fine by me and certainly not an indication of impending disaster.

 

The fact the " moorings bubble" (purlease...) may be about to burst can only be good news to many people who are currently unable to afford a mooring and resort to bridge hopping instead.

 

I was very glad to see BW's resonnable response. I do hope the market forces will be left to work freely, and if that means a sharp drop of marina berths prices then all the better.

 

In these dire financial times for BW, it is preposterous to suggest they should refuse additionnal income to protect some indivdual operator's interest - or as the french call it: a "chasse gardée" (private hunting ground)

[canaldrifter]

York is unusual in that it is easily accessible by sea going vessels. Most of the berths twixt Naburn and York on the Ouse are taken up by such craft.

 

The arguments highlighted by the OP are very interesting. What is not denied by either side is the many marina moorings lying empty on the inland system, and the decline in new build narrowboats.

 

It seems to me that rapidly escalating costs might already be killing the golden goose. What chance will the waterways trust have of being adequately financed if boating numbers start to fall, which they might if current financial uncertainty continues.

 

Tone

[Phoenix_V]

Wow. A storm brewing on this one in "Boating Business" ...

 

Original article "Canal Marina Mania – the end of the line?" here

 

Response (from Phil Spencer, National Boating Trade Manager, British Waterways) and counter response from Tim Coghlan Braunston Marina here

There may well be a congestion issue around Braunston but in general there aint and a surplus of moorings is clearly a good thing in general for us boaters, Mr C has his own agenda as a marina owner

[Tonka]

If it had been anybody else apart from Tim Coghlan then I would have believed it but he is the rudest man I have ever met. Wasn't it him who tried to backmail British Waterways by asking for his marina to be extended and then saying that if he did not permission then the Braunston Boat show would have to be cancelled. His plan backfired and the show moved to Crick. No wonder he has empty berths the part towards the locks looks verry tatty and the car parking is a long walk away. True the Braunston pound has got too many marinas.

[NB Lola]

Two headed sword

 

Competition keeps prices competitive

 

More berths could mean more congestion

[Guest]

Personally Im looking forward to further information on the proposed marina developments at both Cherry Willingham on the Witham and Stainforth near Doncaster. They will bring much needed competition for high quality fully serviced berths in the area.

 

A while ago now i sent an email ref the proposed Stainforth development to the developers via their website. I never even received the courtesy of a reply. Merely asked for any update re construction start times and any other info.

[Djuwenda]

Two headed sword

 

Competition keeps prices competitive

 

More berths could mean more congestion

 

 

Is it such a big deal? Just avoid mooring there or using the locks at the busy times, job jobbed.

[Spesh]

snip

Mr C has his own agenda as a marina owner

 

Doesn't he just. He's essentially saying: "I've got a big marina and it makes me lots of money. Other people also want to have marinas and make money. British Waterways shouldn't let them because this means I'll make less money."

 

So the guy making money out of the working of a market economy wants BW to prevent the market working. Brilliant.

[mayalld]

Doesn't he just. He's essentially saying: "I've got a big marina and it makes me lots of money. Other people also want to have marinas and make money. British Waterways shouldn't let them because this means I'll make less money."

 

So the guy making money out of the working of a market economy wants BW to prevent the market working. Brilliant.

 

 

Actually, its worse than that.

 

In a market where the supply is limited by over regulation, there is a lot of money to be made by those who have the supply.

 

Those who can find a way to increase their supply whilst others cannot can make even more money.

 

Where the supply is no longer limited, the market finds its own level, and margins are squeezed somewhat.

 

It appears that somebody wanted to remove red tape in order to facilitate HIS expansion, and then to re-impose red tape such that the supply doesn't increase enough to squeeze margins.

[carlt]

Wasn't it him who tried to backmail British Waterways by asking for his marina to be extended and then saying that if he did not permission then the Braunston Boat show would have to be cancelled. His plan backfired and the show moved to Crick.

I am no great fan of Tim Coghlan but that is pure fiction.

 

Disproved, completely, by the fact that the marina has been extended.

 

The Braunston Boat Show was cancelled for completely different reasons that were beyond Mr Coghlan's control and, imo, the Boat Show is much poorer, as a result.

 

On the other hand, of course, it is nice that the Braunston Boat Show is now unsullied by modern clonecraft and is many times better, as a result.

 

Every cloud...

[Proper Job]

As I see it, if people believe there is a case for building a marina, all of the legal requirements are met, they can get finance for it etc - then good luck to them.

 

I suppose eventually the canals will get to saturation point, people will stop enjoying them, the marina's will empty, berth prices will fall, etc, etc.

 

I hope that the development of marina's will not force the reduction in on-line moorings, but I'm sure in places, this will happen.

 

It seems to me that (reading other threads) some marina's are desperately required to meet mooring demand (L&S, K&A). The problem is, with high development cost and owners wanting a good return on their investment, somehow they need to be affordable.

[Lady Muck]

As I see it, if people believe there is a case for building a marina, all of the legal requirements are met, they can get finance for it etc - then good luck to them.

 

I suppose eventually the canals will get to saturation point, people will stop enjoying them, the marina's will empty, berth prices will fall, etc, etc.

 

I hope that the development of marina's will not force the reduction in on-line moorings, but I'm sure in places, this will happen.

 

It seems to me that (reading other threads) some marina's are desperately required to meet mooring demand (L&S, K&A). The problem is, with high development cost and owners wanting a good return on their investment, somehow they need to be affordable.

 

Well we've got our new marina on the L&S but it's not residential. Pigs might fly before we get any residential moorings here, mainly because of the Lee Valley Parks Act and the fact that it's green belt land. It's not just boats, but holiday homes (that appear to have been lived in in breach of planning) seem to have been torn down as well.

 

ETA planning for a new marina on the Slough Arm has just been rejected as well. It's not that people aren't trying to develop moorings, they are, but they constantly get turned down by planning.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Lady Muck

[PeterG]

I think there is more than an element of truth in what Tim Coghlan has said. In the Braunston area there does seem an excess of mooring spaces but in other areas this is obviously not the case.

 

One of the realities is that it does take a long time to go through the whole process from yes I want to build a marina to get to the point where the first boats are able to be moored. Who could of predicted the large reduction in boats being built or the financial crash etc. This has happened within the timespan of starting to finishing a marina build. This could well leave people concerned about their future business plans such as investing 2 million in a new marina.

 

The fact that BW seem to have ducked out of the debate on marinas is perhaps partly because their crystal ball did not predict the crash and partly because thy no longer have the cash to keep involved other than their current estate.

 

Personally I would still like some more marinas or moorings built in the areas that still could do with them, which I do not think includes the Braunston area.

[Djuwenda]

 

Personally I would still like some more marinas or moorings built in the areas that still could do with them, which I do not think includes the Braunston area.

 

Where do you moor Peter?

Surely, if the number of new boats being built suddenly drops, the marinas will just be less full? And become cheaper as a direct consequence.

 

People who havent considered getting a mooring in the past and ressorted to bridge hoping might move in?

 

As a boater, I am sorry but I really cant quite see what the problem is?

[carlt]

Have any marinas ever gone bust?

 

What happens to a hole in the ground, when nobody wants to pay to put a boat in it?

[Chris Pink]

Where do you moor Peter?

Surely, if the number of new boats being built suddenly drops, the marinas will just be less full? And become cheaper as a direct consequence.

 

People who havent considered getting a mooring in the past and ressorted to bridge hoping might move in?

 

As a boater, I am sorry but I really cant quite see what the problem is?

 

I'm with all your posts on this subject. There has been far too much price fixing in the moorings market leading to many who would love moorings being unable to get them and falling into the difficult choices left.

 

After all, what is a marina? A big hole in the ground with water in it. It is only the efforts of big business to add something to that simple (and very cheap) concept in order to justify ridiculous prices that has led to the present corrupt and top-heavy market.

 

I am of the opinion that the cost of berthing a boat should be around the same as the cost of the licence, which is what I pay at the moment. Of course, if you want to pay more (security fences, launderettes and the like) that is fine, most people just want somewhere to leave a boat.

 

Then we might see the return of leisure boating. (Is that a flying pig I see?)

Edited April 15, 2011 by Chris Pink

[PeterG]

Where do you moor Peter?

Surely, if the number of new boats being built suddenly drops, the marinas will just be less full? And become cheaper as a direct consequence.

 

People who havent considered getting a mooring in the past and ressorted to bridge hoping might move in?

 

As a boater, I am sorry but I really cant quite see what the problem is?

 

I moor in the general Braunston area at the moment and wait very patiently in the queues when they happen. Would very much like to moor some where cheaper but with the same facilities, but even though I see more and more vacancies in the local marinas have yet to notice a downward trend in mooring prices. I would love for the prices to be cheaper, who would not apart from Marina owners.

 

Why would a bridge hopper want to move in?

 

I am not saying there is a real problem here, only that BW went a little over the top when they went on their marina building campaign without thinking about how to promote the creation of marinas in areas where the need is greater. That is perhaps why they have now taken a big step backwards now?

[Chertsey]

Is there any evidence, though, that the market is working as, in theory, it should? I see many marinas with lots and lots of unfilled berths, but I don't see prices falling.

[Richard T]

The only marina I can remember going out of business is Leicester run I think by Seymour Roseblade. It was between Thurcaston and Belgrave bridges and is now a fishing lake with a barrier to prevent boats entering. Its a shame as it could be the location of the first boat in Macdonalds!!