handling NB and Butty singlehanded

[larkshall]

Is it possible to manage a boat and a butty single handed?, an anybody recommend some reading on the subject?

Edited January 5, 2011 by larkshall

[Heffalump]

Is it possible to manage a boat and a butty single handed?, an anybody recommend some reading on the subject?

 

Breasted up I can't see a problem.

[RLWP]

Breasted up I can't see a problem.

 

locks

 

Richard

[Heffalump]

locks

 

Richard

 

OK I should ETA - on wide canals with wide locks.

 

Not that I'd like to do it if I didn't have to, but I don't see it technically being a problem.

[Speedwheel]

It is quite possible to tow a butty with just one person. Equally it is possible to work lock albeit, it will be quite a slow process.

 

If you want a real master class in single handing a pair, watch Julie Invermee with Bascote and Gosport. I think she must use The Force.

[koukouvagia]

 

 

If you want a real master class in single handing a pair, watch Julie Invermee with Bascote and Gosport. I think she must use The Force.

 

Or watch Peter Hawker on Bletchley and Argus.

[deletedaccount]

Breasted up I can't see a problem.

 

I started this thread a while back and was told it's easier to tow than breast up. Which I'm still confused about.

[Keeping Up]

I started this thread a while back and was told it's easier to tow than breast up. Which I'm still confused about.

 

On deep, wide waters it is easier to breast up. On narrow or shallow waters it is easier to tow.

 

On narrow canals you may have no choice, you can't get a breasted pair through a bridge-hole that is less than 14ft wide.

 

Getting from the towed position to being breasted inside a broad lock is a most interesting challenge. Easy enough if you stop on the mooring and then breast up, but with practice you can take the motor into the lock in such a way that the butty continues under its own momentum and comes to rest alongside you. It looks great when it goes right - but also provides countless opportunities for the most almighty cock-up when it goes wrong.

[alan_fincher]

One of the things on the GU now seems to be to know what bridges have received "maintenance" to the point where they will no longer pass a breasted pair.

 

I think I saw recently, for example, that there is now somewhere on the Grove to Leighton stretch where you are likely to get jammed, although once upon a time it would have been possible.

 

Other places you could be defeated by moorers, (e.g. when a pair decide to moor dead opposite that massive wide beam just above Marsworth locks - certainly doesn't leave a 14 foot gap!)

 

Jim mentioned Peter Hawker with Bletchley and Argus - it's worth pointing out he often manages it with a fair load on!

[Speedwheel]

Or watch Peter Hawker on Bletchley and Argus.

 

Yes indeed. He makes everything look so effortless.

[carlt]

I used to move Lucy around, single handed, most of the time.

 

Eventually it becomes second nature.

[mykaskin]

The details to moving with a butty single handed are far too many to write down easily - especially since I'm not really practiced, but some things you can rely on:

 

• Cross Straps will give partial control over an unloaded boat - the bow follows the motor, and since the bow is close up breaking can be achived, but cross-winding (jack kniffing) can be problem
  
• Breasting in bridges and lock mouths helps as it keeps the bows together
  
• Straight canals are good for towing, but lots of bends or other boats it's safer to breast
  
• Gatelining (mostly (incorrectly?) called Thumblining) is a saviour when breasted, but it's still possible to run a singled out pair through a single gate (snatching the butty across on exit with a short rope)
  
• It is possible to control a loaded butty on a snatcher (a short rope) by using the prop wash to push the bow of the butty about (degree level stuff this one though!)
  

Must admit to never doing serious distances without a butty steerer so there must be many other factors that can help. You will only gain experience by doing it, and I would say you need to have been doing pair boating for sometime before going alone with a pair to ensure chaos doesn't ensue.

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[ditchcrawler]

Is it possible to manage a boat and a butty single handed?, an anybody recommend some reading on the subject?

How much boating experience have you got on just a motor?

[mykaskin]

How much boating experience have you got on just a motor?

and how much with a butty, as you need to know about how both handle. Butty boats are particularly interesting in the fact they don't stop with a quick pull of a handle!

 

Mike

[furnessvale]

Is it possible to manage a boat and a butty single handed?, an anybody recommend some reading on the subject?

 

Chris Deuchar did a book called "A Boaters Guide to Boating" which has a chapter on the subject. It used to be available via HNBOC I don't know if it still is.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Davidss]

Chris Deuchar did a book called "A Boaters Guide to Boating" which has a chapter on the subject. It used to be available via HNBOC I don't know if it still is.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

That sent me to the 'library'. The book by Chris has Chapter 10 on 'Working with a Butty', but he writes as though someone is hanging onto the butty's tiller, to positive or negative effect :-)

I didn't see anything on controlling a pair single handed.

Nevertheless, reading the book is HIGHLY recommended. It may be slim, but a small font is used, and there is very little padding. Every sentence is meant to be read.

 

Googling 'ISBN 0 9531512 0 4' will give readers a positive response.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Davidss

[furnessvale]

That sent me to the 'library'. The book by Chris has Chapter 10 on 'Working with a Butty', but he writes as though someone is hanging onto the butty's tiller, to positive or negative effect :-)

I didn't see anything on controlling a pair single handed.

Nevertheless, reading the book is HIGHLY recommended. It may be slim, but a small font is used, and there is very little padding. Every sentence is meant to be read.

 

Googling 'ISBN 0 9531512 0 4' will give readers a positive response.

 

Without consulting my own library I am in no position to argue but I have a recollection of Chris mentioning techniques such as using tiller strings on the butty and "sticking" and "unsticking" the butty to the bank when passing other boats etc.

 

Quite separately, I have seen other boaters using long strings from the butty elum to the motor steering position but I have never done it myself.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[bristol & argo]

Cross Straps will give partial control over an unloaded boat - the bow follows the motor, and since the bow is close up breaking can be achived, but cross-winding (jack kniffing) can be problem

Actually quite a lot of control depending on cross winds affecting the butty. Stopping is much easier if the motor is alot heavyer than the butty, Bristol was fine towing Argo as she was converted and Argo empty, but would you believe it - Argo pulled Victoria's stern around when picking up the tow down at Cavalcade a few years ago now, where-as Bodmin did not.

Breasting in bridges and lock mouths helps as it keeps the bows together

And setting up a fixed rope from butty mast to motor T stud aswell as between the T studs, allows you to breast the bows and then just motor forwards to bring the butty stern back within reach...

Straight canals are good for towing, but lots of bends or other boats it's safer to breast

I would say the quantity or spacing of locks was more defining.

On one of my Braunston dashes i was single handed towing from Wolverton station to Stoke Breune with no dramas.

Gatelining (mostly (incorrectly?) called Thumblining) is a saviour when breasted, but it's still possible to run a singled out pair through a single gate (snatching the butty across on exit with a short rope)

Ignoring the 'gates open/closed debate', most locks i tackled breasted with twin lines to open both gates, but the law of sod dictates one line will slip or one gate will not open fully anyway!!

It is possible to control a loaded butty on a snatcher (a short rope) by using the prop wash to push the bow of the butty about (degree level stuff this one though!)

The closest i came to this was towing Argo off one answer pin to get her out of the prop wash. We achieved some astonishing speeds along the Paddington Arm with the wind behind us.

Must admit to never doing serious distances without a butty steerer so there must be many other factors that can help. You will only gain experience by doing it, and I would say you need to have been doing pair boating for sometime before going alone with a pair to ensure chaos doesn't ensue.

Absolutely, with a pair you are always learning and chaos is always just round the corner (often the chaos is someone elses, but coming across it with a pair never helps them find a quick solution ).

 

Simon.

Edited January 6, 2011 by bristol & argo

[RLWP]

Is it possible to manage a boat and a butty single handed?, an anybody recommend some reading on the subject?

 

I'm wondering what conclusion you are coming to about this

 

Richard

[chris_r]

Lots of interesting comments on this thread. But has anyone experienced single handing motor and butty where the motor is less than full length (say 45ft or 50ft)and the butty is full length. Towing on cross straps or a short snatcher may well be OK, but how is it best to manage breasting up techniques on wide sections or entering wide locks ? Stern to stern or bow to bow ??

[rrt2]

 

 

I think I saw recently, for example, that there is now somewhere on the Grove to Leighton stretch where you are likely to get jammed, although once upon a time it would have been possible.

 

 

This is correct the keeper a Leighton lock warned me of this ( probably around 1982 ) that one of the - don't really know how to refer to them - but like the narrow bit for a bridge hole but with no bridge, had moved inwards and you could not get a breasted pair through. We found this to be correct as when we got to the bit in question there was a pair jammed in the narrow. A tap on the front of one of them and away went both pairs .

[Liam]

Stern to stern or bow to bow ??

 

Always stern to stern when towing a butty with a shorter motor. Otherwise if you round a turn 'into' your butty your wash will be stone walled by the Butty.

[FadeToScarlet]

I think I saw recently, for example, that there is now somewhere on the Grove to Leighton stretch where you are likely to get jammed, although once upon a time it would have been possible.

 

Yes, we got jammed there with Warrior and Lucky Duck, when we were travelling breasted up to save our propshaft and make locks easier, with the three of us.

 

There's overhead power lines and an old wharf off on the right hand side, but I can never remember what it was called or which bridge it was by

[Keeping Up]

Lots of interesting comments on this thread. But has anyone experienced single handing motor and butty where the motor is less than full length (say 45ft or 50ft)and the butty is full length. Towing on cross straps or a short snatcher may well be OK, but how is it best to manage breasting up techniques on wide sections or entering wide locks ? Stern to stern or bow to bow ??

 

Agreed, stern to stern.

 

We did the opposite coming down Hatton, having a long (67ft) motor boat breasted up with a shorter (45ft) boat that we were towing from Birmingham to Rickmansworth. The towpath was closed for resurfacing, and it was necessary for the crew to ride from lock to lock, and it was a real pain in the backside!. After emerging from each lock breasted it was easy enough to wait in the tail while the crew closed both bottom gates and got on board (one on to each stern); the crew then had to go to the front of the motor to get off at the bow (something I never normally allow them to do because I don't reckon it's safe) above the next lock; Of course as the other boat was short, its bow did not reach anywhere near the lock, so waiting in a gale-force crosswind while they were filling the lock was, to say the least, interesting.

 

With a short unpowered boat alongside I find it best to have the other boat's stern about 3 or 4 feet ahead of mine.

 

I think I saw recently, for example, that there is now somewhere on the Grove to Leighton stretch where you are likely to get jammed, although once upon a time it would have been possible.

 

This is correct the keeper a Leighton lock warned me of this ( probably around 1982 ) that one of the - don't really know how to refer to them - but like the narrow bit for a bridge hole but with no bridge, had moved inwards and you could not get a breasted pair through. We found this to be correct as when we got to the bit in question there was a pair jammed in the narrow. A tap on the front of one of them and away went both pairs .

 

It's the bridge by Tiddenfoot Leisure centre, where the Linslade festival is held and where they have recently built a new footbridge. (Edited to add: If it did have a number it would probably be 115a unless that had been given to the railway bridge in which case I suppose 115aa would be needed given that 115b is the LB by-pass.

 

We just managed to get through there with the Dutch Barge Apolonia on its way up to Leighton Buzzard in 1985, by taking a good run-at it, and I'm sure we widened it by a couple of inches when we did so!

Edited January 6, 2011 by Keeping Up

[Speedwheel]

Purple box in a green one.

 

oooohhhh , how do yo do that?

Edited January 6, 2011 by Speedwheel