Protests on the K&A

[luctor et emergo]

Seams simple to me.

You are either a cc and keep moving which kind of makes it impossible to hold down a job in one place.

Or you stay in one place for getting to a job in which case you pay for a mooring.

No grey areas imo

 

Proost....

 

 

 

I agree 100%. But that seems too simple for some people to get their head around.

 

 

Simple to you perhaps...

 

 

 

Blessed are the blinkerd...

[carlt]

Seams simple to me.

You are either a cc and keep moving which kind of makes it impossible to hold down a job in one place.

Or you stay in one place for getting to a job in which case you pay for a mooring.

No grey areas imo

Really?

 

I worked full time, in Rugby, and my cruising range was from Leighton Buzzard to Nottingham, Tewkesbury, Oxford, BCN, Ringstead, Snarestone and many more, all around an hour's commute which suited my lifestyle, at the time.

 

BW were satisfied and, quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss about anyone else's opinion.

[Kentboycamper2]

I believe that on the K&A, BW should simply state how far CCers have to move every 14 days and then enforce this.

 

I do know people that CC on the K&A, they move their boats within the rules, have a fair bit of aggravation getting supplies, getting to their cars etc etc. That is their lifestyle, they are within the current rules and they are happy to do so, regardless that their lives may not be as easy as they would be on a permanent mooring. They don't hog visitor moorings etc as they can't stay on these long enough and would have to move on too often.

 

I live on a permanent mooring on the Avon, not far from Bath, I don't look down on the CCers on the canal, I just have different lifestyle needs to them and enjoy the facilities that come with my mooring.

 

The K&A will always be an issue simply because the amount of traffic on it, CCers are part of the issue as are the myriad of hire companies that utilise this part of the system. Often you cannot get a mooring on the visitor moorings at Bradford etc as they are full of Hilperton Marina boats (amongst others) for example. CCer bashing does no one any credit and also makes certain boaters seem ill-informed,

 

Andy

[ditchcrawler]

Really?

 

I worked full time, in Rugby, and my cruising range was from Leighton Buzzard to Nottingham, Tewkesbury, Oxford, BCN, Ringstead, Snarestone and many more, all around an hour's commute which suited my lifestyle, at the time.

 

BW were satisfied and, quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss about anyone else's opinion.

But you weren't going from Braunston turn to bridge 103 and back again, stopping in between, you were covering quite a distance

[Allan(nb Albert)]

If you live in a house, would you pay rent?

 

Council tax?

 

 

Water rates?

 

 

Gas and/or electricity?

 

Phoneline?

 

Sewage rates?

 

I am not sure what your point is!

 

I live in a house and pay all of the above (except rent). I could, if I chose, sell my house or rent it out and cc for the rest of my life.

[magpie patrick]

 

The K&A will always be an issue simply because the amount of traffic on it, CCers are part of the issue as are the myriad of hire companies that utilise this part of the system. Often you cannot get a mooring on the visitor moorings at Bradford etc as they are full of Hilperton Marina boats (amongst others) for example. CCer bashing does no one any credit and also makes certain boaters seem ill-informed,

 

Andy

 

That, in many ways, is the nub of the issue. It is a popular waterway, and a popular weekend trip is to go from Sally or Hilperton down to Bath. Opinion's also get polarised because people who boat on the rest of the system get a bit of a shock at the Bath to Bradford level of use and mooring, while people who spend most of their time on it don't appreciate that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation it is a congested length of waterway, and as we all know from our cars, congestion raises tempers

 

It is in part down to Bath being very expensive for housing. That said, every now and then you see a post on here that says words to the effect of "I am thinking of buying a boat and heading down to Bath..." Unless you need to live in Bath, please don't.

[cotswoldsman]

No John, you pay for the first day, and EA give you the second day free, as most boats will buy their ticket at the first lock they get to, which may be halfway through the day.

 

You won't get past a lock, without a licence.

 

All I can say is that when I arrived at the first lock after Reading I asked for a 2 day licence and expected to pay £72 The Lock Keeper wrote out the licence and then asked me for £6 when I said I think that should be £72 she" no the first day is free" now maybe she meant to say "the second day is free" I don't know.

 

So, that means that BW are going to extend the visitor moorings? Which means that there will be visitor moorings well away from places to visit. I.e. there will be places in the miiddle of nowhere, classed as visitor moorings?

 

Unless, BW are looking to find a way to charge for ordinairy towpath moorings?

 

Or am I being cynical?

 

I think maybe there is a misunderstanding from my part about visitor moorings or the middle of nowhere (back of beyond) If you take Bradford as an example just past the visitor moorings under the bridge the moorings become normal 14 day moorings and these are the ones that have permanent moorers such as the lifeboat thingy hardly middle of nowhere!!

 

Seams simple to me.

You are either a cc and keep moving which kind of makes it impossible to hold down a job in one place.

Or you stay in one place for getting to a job in which case you pay for a mooring.

No grey areas imo

 

I disagree it is possible to CC and hold a job, think my problem is with over stayers as long as boats move after the 14 days not bothered how far they cruise.

[Kentboycamper2]

That, in many ways, is the nub of the issue. It is a popular waterway, and a popular weekend trip is to go from Sally or Hilperton down to Bath. Opinion's also get polarised because people who boat on the rest of the system get a bit of a shock at the Bath to Bradford level of use and mooring, while people who spend most of their time on it don't appreciate that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation it is a congested length of waterway, and as we all know from our cars, congestion raises tempers

 

It is in part down to Bath being very expensive for housing. That said, every now and then you see a post on here that says words to the effect of "I am thinking of buying a boat and heading down to Bath..." Unless you need to live in Bath, please don't.

 

Exactly, Bath is so popular that most boaters want to go there, hence the traffic.

 

Bath is expensive for housing, I feel akin to London really. I houseshared in Bath, fell in love with the canal and decided to liveaboard. I realised I needed some stability for work etc so I came away from the canal (where there are few private moorings) and moored on the river in a private marina. Folks who CC in the Bath area and stretch the rules a bit will always come up against the issues in this thread. I like a quiet life and was lucky to be able to afford to boat in the way I wanted to. Doesn't mean I think any less of our CCer friends, I just don't want to boat in the way that they do,

Andy

[cotswoldsman]

people who boat on the rest of the system get a bit of a shock at the Bath to Bradford level of use and mooring, while people who spend most of their time on it don't appreciate that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation it is a congested length of waterway, and as we all know from our cars, congestion raises tempers

 

 

 

Yes guess you are right, I have now cruised most of the system and it was a shock for me, never seen anything like it. When I was in Bath my next stopping point was going to be Bathgate so took the bust there to have a look at mooring situation and seemed to be a lot of 48 and 7 day mooring. Moved up 4 days latter and noticed the same boats on 48 h mooring and 7 day mooring and no space. Now the 48 h moorers were defiantly overstaying and have to give the 7 day moorers the benefit of the doubt but there were no moorings in October anywhere!!!

[matty40s]

Seams simple to me.

You are either a cc and keep moving which kind of makes it impossible to hold down a job in one place.

Or you stay in one place for getting to a job in which case you pay for a mooring.

No grey areas imo

I agree 100%. But that seems too simple for some people to get their head around.

 

 

Disagree entirely,

 

like Carl, I CC properly,

I work full time in London, and have cruised from Leicester,Rugby,down the Oxford, GU, all the arms (I havn't been down to Brentford yet though, Lee n Snort, as far as Cheshunt. I have turned round now as the lock closures nr Broxbourne would stop me being where I want to be at Christmas. There are weeks I don't see my car, and there are other weeks I use it daily.

[cotswoldsman]

 

 

 

Disagree entirely,

 

like Carl, I CC properly,

I work full time in London, and have cruised from Leicester,Rugby,down the Oxford, GU, all the arms (I havn't been down to Brentford yet though, Lee n Snort, as far as Cheshunt. I have turned round now as the lock closures nr Broxbourne would stop me being where I want to be at Christmas. There are weeks I don't see my car, and there are other weeks I use it daily.

 

I think the main people that will disagree with you are the ones in the school of "he is not paying for a mooring and I am"

 

 

 

[RLWP]

It is always easy to criticise without personal knowledge.

 

Just over a week ago I was helming a community boat with a party of children with challenging behaviour aboard. Whilst on the water point at the top of Hatton locks another 70' boat arrived. I suggested they moor alongside.

 

I was subjected to a tirade about continuous moorers on water points and lock landings. I pointed out that the leaf covered boat which was preventing them mooring was on a designated BW mooring and was permitted to moor.

 

The boat was Richard and Sue's Tawney Owl!

 

My, perhaps jaundiced, view is that BW's motivation in stirring up the cc issue is simply money. Indeed, I am told that roving mooring permits are now back on the agenda.

 

We are the first boat on that mooring and one end of the boat is usually next to the post with the signs on. It doesn't help that someone has taken the permitted moorers only (or whatever it said) sign off.

 

Richard

[sueb]

We are the first boat on that mooring and one end of the boat is usually next to the post with the signs on. It doesn't help that someone has taken the permitted moorers only (or whatever it said) sign off.

 

Richard

This isn't to blame you, as you are on a permitted mooring that suits you. BW should have had some consideration for boats using both the flight and the waterpoint and left a larger gap at the top of these locks.

This is a matter I took up, with the then manager, when these moorings were empty. (The moorings were considered by BW to be prime moorings and priced accordingly, hence the vacancies) I was ignored and they were all let at a reduced fee.

It wouldn't be the first time I have moored at the waterpoint for lunch.

Sue

[mayalld]

All I can say is that when I arrived at the first lock after Reading I asked for a 2 day licence and expected to pay £72 The Lock Keeper wrote out the licence and then asked me for £6 when I said I think that should be £72 she" no the first day is free" now maybe she meant to say "the second day is free" I don't know.

 

As far as I know, all Thames licences run midnight to midnight, and all include the remainder of the day of purchase free of charge in addition.

 

However, you still won't be allowed to transit a lock without a licence, even if you will actually be off the river before the paid for start time.

[PhilR]

I think the main people that will disagree with you are the ones in the school of "he is not paying for a mooring and I am"

 

I don't think that is generally the case. The main problem is there are not enough residential moorings. As a result many who permanently live aboard occupy visitor moorings for lengthy periods. In many locations this makes it very difficult/impossible for visitors to find an overnight/short term mooring. The *he is not paying for a mooring* school is probably an understandable reaction from frustrated visitors who already pay for a home mooring.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

It wouldn't be the first time I have moored at the waterpoint for lunch.

Sue

 

I trust you had your hose connected with the tap turned off!

[Nightwatch]

I don't think that is generally the case. The main problem is there are not enough residential moorings. As a result many who permanently live aboard occupy visitor moorings for lengthy periods. In many locations this makes it very difficult/impossible for visitors to find an overnight/short term mooring. The *he is not paying for a mooring* school is probably an understandable reaction from frustrated visitors who already pay for a home mooring.

I have an idea....Build a residential 'only' marina and charge people to live on their boats in the marina.

 

That would put the cats amongst the birdies.

 

Some of these people occupy the visitor moorings only because they can and they don't have to pay for a home mooring. Home being the operative word.

 

As has been said repeatedly, if there are no residential moorings in a particular area move your boat to where you have/and pay for a residential mooring. It's really simple really.

 

 

Martyn

[Tam & Di]

Seams simple to me.

You are either a cc and keep moving which kind of makes it impossible to hold down a job in one place.

Or you stay in one place for getting to a job in which case you pay for a mooring.

No grey areas imo

 

 

 

Disagree entirely,

 

like Carl, I CC properly,

I work full time in London, and have cruised from Leicester,Rugby,down the Oxford, GU, all the arms (I havn't been down to Brentford yet though, Lee n Snort, as far as Cheshunt. I have turned round now as the lock closures nr Broxbourne would stop me being where I want to be at Christmas. There are weeks I don't see my car, and there are other weeks I use it daily.

 

When the '95 Act was a Bill, BW had a clause which said everyone must have a home mooring as an essential prerequisite for them to be issued with a cruising licence. It was pointed out to the Lords' committee considering the Bill that there were people who cruised the whole system all year round, and a compromise solution was forced onto BW that they would create a category of "Continuous Cruisers" who would be exempt from the home mooring requirement. The concepts of "work", "school" etc were never part of it - they were irrelevant, as it was all about moving around the system. What you did other than this was neither here nor there. So what you and Carl do/did is perfectly within the spirit and letter of the concept. People who bounce up and down the minimum distance they can get away with and overstay similarly until push comes to shove are not. Once the occasional one or two becomes a hoard tempers fray and something has to be done.

 

 

edited to make the committee members plural rather than just one Lord.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Tam & Di

[David Schweizer]

That, in many ways, is the nub of the issue. It is a popular waterway, and a popular weekend trip is to go from Sally or Hilperton down to Bath. Opinion's also get polarised because people who boat on the rest of the system get a bit of a shock at the Bath to Bradford level of use and mooring, while people who spend most of their time on it don't appreciate that whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation it is a congested length of waterway, and as we all know from our cars, congestion raises tempers

 

It is in part down to Bath being very expensive for housing. That said, every now and then you see a post on here that says words to the effect of "I am thinking of buying a boat and heading down to Bath..." Unless you need to live in Bath, please don't.

That is an old hairy chestnut which is raised time and time again, and it is a poor excuse. We need to put some of these lazy excuses intop perspective.

 

I used to work in Bath, but had to live in West Wiltshire in order to afford accomodation, My Daughter works in Bath and has to live in Wiltshire to afford housing, It is only six or seven miles away with good road and rail connections, you can even cycle in, along the towpath, if you cannot afford the bus/train fare.

Edited November 2, 2010 by David Schweizer

[RLWP]

<snip>

It wouldn't be the first time I have moored at the waterpoint for lunch.

Sue

 

It wouldn't be the first time someone has moored on our mooring to go to the pub!

 

Richard

[GSer]

Seams simple to me.

You are either a cc and keep moving which kind of makes it impossible to hold down a job in one place.

Or you stay in one place for getting to a job in which case you pay for a mooring.

No grey areas imo

 

 

I CC and keep working & have done for 12 years, sure it's a pain (just a little at times) but it's quite easy to do the majority of the time, but thats me, grey all over in a black and white world

[magpie patrick]

That is an old hairy chestnut which is raised time and time again, and it is a poor excuse. We need to put some of these lazy excuses intop perspective.

 

I used to work in Bath, but had to live in West Wiltshire in order to afford accomodation, My Daughter works in Bath and has to live in Wiltshire to afford housing, It is only six or seven miles away with good road and rail connections, you can even cycle in, along the towpath, if you cannot afford the bus/train fare.

 

Well, that might have been the case then David, but we live in a two bedroom terrace in Oldfield Park, purchase price £203,000. In Bradford at the time housing was cheaper [ahem] as a two bedroom terrace, nothing like has handy for the station, was a measley £199,000...

 

Radstock is cheaper, I'll agree, you can have a tiny miners cottage (and I mean tiny) for £150,000, although I will grant that for £200k you can get a three bed semi.

 

There are brand new houses for £71k in Radstock but um you only buy half the house and rent the other half

 

There is no accomodation within striking distance of Bath that someone on anything less than about £40,000 pa can buy as a first time buyer, unless mummy and daddy are well heeled. Of course you can rent, but even a room in most parts of Bath is pushing £400 a month.

[Sir Nibble]

Well, that might have been the case then David, but we live in a two bedroom terrace in Oldfield Park, purchase price £203,000. In Bradford at the time housing was cheaper [ahem] as a two bedroom terrace, nothing like has handy for the station, was a measley £199,000...

 

Radstock is cheaper, I'll agree, you can have a tiny miners cottage (and I mean tiny) for £150,000, although I will grant that for £200k you can get a three bed semi.

 

There are brand new houses for £71k in Radstock but um you only buy half the house and rent the other half

 

There is no accomodation within striking distance of Bath that someone on anything less than about £40,000 pa can buy as a first time buyer, unless mummy and daddy are well heeled. Of course you can rent, but even a room in most parts of Bath is pushing £400 a month.

I'm amazed. I would have thought the Bath area would be way more expensive than where I live for instance, but it would seem not, nicely comperable in fact.

[Lady Muck]

even a room in most parts of Bath is pushing £400 a month.

 

£600 in London, I really didn't want to have to spend my 40th birthday in a rented room in a shared house. So we bought a boat. So yes, we're getting away with it, living afloat, I guess. We're both freelance meaning it would be impossible (post credit crunch) to buy a flat, even my bank wouldn't lend me a cent (I guess it's that old chestnut of no debt, no credit rating?), but Roy Scot Larch did.

 

I can't blame any other liveaboards for doing the same, I'm not surprised how popular it's got, the secret is out. BUT you can't tell me that no one goes into this with their eyes open, without knowing the risks, after all we have all been given a huge amount of trust by BW to abide by these guidelines, and it didn't matter in the past about a few overstayers, coz there weren't many liveaboards (I've seen the huge explosion in London, it is an eye opener, new boaters every week), but we were given an inch by BW and many of us took several miles. And then, when (very skint) BW starts digging around for reasons to make boaters pay more, they don't have to look very far do they?

 

I'm all for people living on boats, but if you knew the guidelines when you moved aboard and you knew you won't be able to cope if they suddenly get enforced, or that the situation might change, what did you expect? You knew the risks. Same with moorings, as Sueb says, you have no security of tenure, that's fine by me, I know the risks and would be able to manage if I ever got booted off my mooring for whatever reason. I'd be able to cc the whole system, I've had enough practise, but would others?

[David Schweizer]

Well, that might have been the case then David, but we live in a two bedroom terrace in Oldfield Park, purchase price £203,000. In Bradford at the time housing was cheaper [ahem] as a two bedroom terrace, nothing like has handy for the station, was a measley £199,000...

 

Radstock is cheaper, I'll agree, you can have a tiny miners cottage (and I mean tiny) for £150,000, although I will grant that for £200k you can get a three bed semi.

 

There are brand new houses for £71k in Radstock but um you only buy half the house and rent the other half

 

There is no accomodation within striking distance of Bath that someone on anything less than about £40,000 pa can buy as a first time buyer, unless mummy and daddy are well heeled. Of course you can rent, but even a room in most parts of Bath is pushing £400 a month.

I agree with you where rented property is concerned, but it is perfectly possible to buy a selection of one bedroomed flats in Bradford on Avon for under £100,000, or two bed flats for less than £150,000. If you go a couple more miles to Trowbridge one beds can be got for less than £65,000, (with some as low as £50,000) and two beds for under £100,000. Both towns are within Striking distance (as yopu put it) of Bath.

 

To say that modestly priced accomodation is simply untrue. A small flat in a built up area may not be as attractive a propsition as a boat in the countryside, but they will offer just as much accomodatiion with far less hassle.

Edited November 2, 2010 by David Schweizer