Narrow Boat Trust - where are you?

[Steilsteven]

Well, I know damn well that when I met the NBT boats making a complete hash of things, there were 15 people involved in the movement of those boats through the locks. Doubtless you will claim that some of them weren't officially "crew", but they were involved in moving the boat with the consent of the steerer.

 

Quite what photographic evidence you might have to disprove that mystifies me. I am sure that you have some pictures showing only three people, but the FACT is that there were 15. A picture with 3 people on it doesn't "prove" anything.

 

Just when I was beginning to think that NBT was actually trying to set its house in order, you have moved into full scale "Deny everything, and call anybody who says anything we don't want to hear a liar".

 

It seems to me that if NBT is to rebuild its public image, step number one must be to replace those who are in denial.

 

I can only say that they must of been moving so fast that you must have counted each one seven times!

 

Deny everything? I haven't denied anything, I've told you of the evidence before me which is contrary to what you say.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that perhaps you should have put that spade away because the hole is far too big already.

In my entire involvement with NBT ( which spans 17 years ), apart from AGMs we have never been able to get even close to getting fifteen members in one place at one time.

That's from a membership of around 120.

 

NBT has a very good public image, thanks very much.

 

Keith

Edited July 22, 2010 by Steilsteven

[sociable_hermit]

This reminds me very much of the BW replies one sees in the various Waterways magazines.

 

Whenever someone raises a complaint, the first thing they say is "In our experience...." and they then seek to invalidate the complaint by summoning up a great body of averages.

 

Personally, I don't give a f-ck what the majority think. If one person has a complaint, they have a complaint, and that should be recognised and dealt with.

 

That is a tactic I particularly despise from BW and I don't like it from anyone else, either.

[Speedwheel]

NBT has a very good public image, thanks very much.

 

In your opinion ......

[RLWP]

This reminds me very much of the BW replies one sees in the various Waterways magazines.

 

Whenever someone raises a complaint, the first thing they say is "In our experience...." and they then seek to invalidate the complaint by summoning up a great body of averages.

 

Personally, I don't give a f-ck what the majority think. If one person has a complaint, they have a complaint, and that should be recognised and dealt with.

 

That is a tactic I particularly despise from BW and I don't like it from anyone else, either.

 

I'm afraid that I have to agree with this.

 

Richard

[saltysplash]

I want to hear more of DaveM's Bonnet

[blodger]

This reminds me very much of the BW replies one sees in the various Waterways magazines.

 

Whenever someone raises a complaint, the first thing they say is "In our experience...." and they then seek to invalidate the complaint by summoning up a great body of averages.

 

Personally, I don't give a f-ck what the majority think. If one person has a complaint, they have a complaint, and that should be recognised and dealt with.

 

That is a tactic I particularly despise from BW and I don't like it from anyone else, either.

 

Sorry but I cannot see any correlation between BW and NBT and the issues raised here.

 

NBT did not block the canal at Thrupp and it is vexacious to throw in well if they did not they behaved badly on some previous occasion elsewhere so are guilty anyway, so on & so on!

[Natalie Graham]

I want to hear more of DaveM's Bonnet

 

I want to hear more about the Narrow Boat Trust's activities without those who have an axe to grind having a go at them every time they post. Don't think it's going to happen any time soon though.

 

Goodness knows what the problem with that mooring was. Unless the boats in those photos are not where they were when the hire boater decided (or was told) they were blocking the canal, they clearly weren't, as there is more than enough space to get a boat through there. It wasn't a matter of depth if the reason the boater gave was that he was worried about the paintwork, unless it was the bottom blacking he was concerned about. The NBT members have said they consulted the mooring warden and he told them to moor there, so surely that was the place to moor. If you have been directed to a particular spot by the person with responsibility for the moorings why would you moor somewhere else? Just what is the issue?

[LoneWolf]

I encountered the NBT last year yomping down the Hanwell flight behind me flinging lots of water my way (which i found quite intimidating since it was the 1st time i'd single handed down a flight)

 

When they caught up with me their advance man, who had curly black hair and a twinkle in his eye, was friendly and courteous. He apologised if the volume of water made it harder for me and worked me through the lock without rushing me.

 

I stopped for a cuppa & let them overtake before the last 2 locks because it's better to have those in a rush in front of you. They were all happy and friendly as they passed and were also very pleasant chatting about what the trust does later in Brentford.

 

so my verdict: thoroughly nice bunch of lads

[sociable_hermit]

Whether NBT blocked the canal at Thrupp or not still seems to be in dispute. Something to do with the angle of approach through a bridge and camera angles and the depth of water at different times of the day, I believe.

 

If I can read this stuff then I'm sure you can as well.

 

HOWEVER I wasn't there, and I wasn't one of the individuals involved, so I can't comment to any greater extent.

 

What I find ridiculous is this guff that the NBT have a good reputation and Dave Mayall is lying because he says 15 people were manning the boats when he encountered them, but the photos only show 3 people.

 

I've seen sepia photos of Victorians. Does this mean that all Victorians had yellow skin? Don't be so daft.

 

Dave is raising a valid point and you are attempting to ride roughshod over his views on the basis that the majority don't agree. This is arrogant. Who are you to say what the majority think? Have you carried out some form of ballot? And secondly irrespective of the majority, if one person has a bad experience then one person has had a bad experience and that needs to be recognised and dealt with constructively. It doesn't matter what everybody else thinks.

 

Much the same as at Thrupp, in fact. Where some boats got past but one could not. That doesn't make the one crew in charge of that boat 'wrong', does it? They are still having a problem, irrespective of what happened for everybody else.

 

I don't actually care whether there was a real problem or not. What I care about is that someone had what they thought was a problem and rather than listen to them you are playing the majority card: "well everybody else thought it was all right". Firstly, how do you know? And secondly, so what?

 

If the army came round tomorrow and shot one of youir loved ones, would you only complain if it had happened to the majority of people that you knew?

 

English people tend not to complain. It is generally easier to grit one's teeth and get on with it. So the fact that people haven't complained doesn't automatically mean that everything is wonderful. And if one person does complain, take their views seriously, because there are probably another 10 who haven't said anything, but should have done.

[Hairy-Neil]

NBT wee in their water cans.

 

 

I recall a time when the porta-poti was ignored till the pan was full too, and had to be baled out with a handy utensil from the adjacent kitchen. Soup anybody?

[mayalld]

I want to hear more about the Narrow Boat Trust's activities without those who have an axe to grind having a go at them every time they post. Don't think it's going to happen any time soon though.

 

I wish to point out that I don't particularly have an axe to grind.

 

I say it as I see it, and I have accurately recounted the behaviour of NBT last year, because it is relevant in discussing whether their crews behave inconsiderately.

 

I brought it up, because when it happened, NBT were interested in nothing other than denying that they had done anything wrong.

 

It has been an interesting discussion this time, because whilst some in NBT have figured out that if I have only encountered NBT once, it is unlikely that I have an axe to grind, and that it must be the case that this single encounter made a negative impression on me.

 

So we had arrived at a point in the discussion where some in NBT were making the right kind of noises about sorting out problems like this. Others were resolutely justifying what had gone on on particular encounters. That is, of course their right if they believe that they were not in the wrong, although telling people who aren't happy with you that you are right is hardly good for the public image.

 

At that point, I was very happy to leave things be, and leave NBT to look at how they interact with the wider public.

 

However, what we now have is somebody who is apparently the chairman of NBT joining the fray. He doesn't want to talk about how NBT might avoid complaints. He doesn't even want to patiently explain away things that others have found problematic as being "OK, because..." No, what he wants to do is deny that particular incidents ever took place.

 

Well, Chairman Keith, I will put up with many things, but I will not put up with people calling me a liar.

 

It is abundantly clear to me now that whilst NBT has some people who want to repair its public image, and stamp out boorish behaviour, that will does not extend to the top of the organisation. It is apparent that the Chairman sees no need to do anything about it, and that he will just deny that anything is wrong, and call anybody who says otherwise a liar.

 

If NBT is to shake off its detractors, those who see the need for a positive public image need to remove this guy before he does any more damage.

[magpie patrick]

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that perhaps you should have put that spade away because the hole is far too big already.

 

Pot, Kettle, Black...

[Derek R.]

Thank you Lone Wolf.

 

As Natalie has pointed out, many axes. I wonder just exactly how many of those who have posted were at the scene of the alleged contentious mooring at the time.

 

We have the 'odourous one' dump and run, and the flies have descended. Everything they ever alleged to have done is dished up and fought over. Were it not for the internet, this dinner would not have taken place (Neil, not at the table please - though the content is analagous).

 

They were apparently told to moor there, a boat is seen to be passing. There was less room at Braunston - yet complaints and excrement fights?

 

I'm off for a Brandy.

 

Derek

[carlt]

I heard that they block the tow path with bizarre satanic rituals, too....and they never tidy up their goat entrails, afterwards, either.

[Derek R.]

Great Scot! Send for the Red Coats!!

[twbm]

I heard that they block the tow path with bizarre satanic rituals, too....and they never tidy up their goat entrails, afterwards, either.

 

It's a fair cop.

[rrt2]

Thank you Lone Wolf.

 

As Natalie has pointed out, many axes. I wonder just exactly how many of those who have posted were at the scene of the alleged contentious mooring at the time.

 

 

Hello Derek,

 

Those at the mooring place for sure.

 

3 members of the NBT myself included.

Mrsmelly just after we moored he left after having a go at one of our members.

Maffi the following morning. These 2 people are the only ones I can say for sure were near the boats below Thrupp lift bridge.

 

Above the bridge but close enough to see the boats. The mooring warden and the crew of the hire boat, plus Mrsmelly as he said he spoke to the hire boat crew but I did not see this

To the best of my knowledge these were the only people I can definitly place at the scene.

I only spoke to the mooring warden and Maffi.

One of the trust members only spoke to Mrsmelly and the mooring warden.

the other trust member spoke to nobody other than us.

 

Its a great shame that the gent on the hire boat didn't come and talk to us we would have been able to get him past us even by pulling his boat along by hand or taking the motor back through the bridge. I do wonder what he would have done when he came to the breasted pair of BWB work boats ( see the photo). The two Anglo Welsh boats also moored breasted just by the boat pub ( these are the ones coming past us with no problem.

Barry Adams

[Hairy-Neil]

I heard that they block the tow path with bizarre satanic rituals, too....and they never tidy up their goat entrails, afterwards, either.

 

If the fridge is anything to go by....

[Roger t' Bodger]

Dave M -

 

I checked what Keith said about the crewing numbers in the 'incident' at Hillmorton in the latest issue of the Steerer and crewing that day was just three and no other NBT member was present (all reports mention any member's presence) so I can only assume they must have been other boaters or sightseers happily mucking in to help which can be much harder to co-ordinate.

 

They were behind schedule due to the butty experiencing problems with the bottom ellum pin. and lots of hold ups due to lack of dredging. As for the earlier incidence of disrupting boats at Rugby I would have thought that even on tick over the displacement of water by two heavily loaded boats (over 40 tons of coal) ploughing through the silt on the bottom would make moored boats move about a bit but thats must be better than losing headway and bashing them. Inexperienced boaters don't realise this when they moor up and hence perfunctorily placed pins come out.

 

Personally I think the Hillmorton locks are cursed - hence the satanic rituals to ward of evil spirits.

 

The unravelling of the snubber at Hillmorton in photo taken on the steerer's camera by passer by.

Shortly afterwards, on their way again.

The full and very funny report by John Stevens is in the latest Steerer available from NBT members on board or from the Trust secretary -see website.

 

Here they are at Atherstone early last week

[blodger]

Whether NBT blocked the canal at Thrupp or not still seems to be in dispute. Something to do with the angle of approach through a bridge and camera angles and the depth of water at different times of the day, I believe.

 

A blockage does not depend on camera angles or line of sight, angle of approach through a bridge, and as regards depth of water happens if you go aground because of the lack of it, not speculation on it!

 

If I can read this stuff then I'm sure you can as well.

HOWEVER I wasn't there, and I wasn't one of the individuals involved, so I can't comment to any greater extent.

 

I was not there but know the area, am aware that there is a sort of Thrupp maffia, and support working boat preservation and use and recognise the importance of hirers to the waterways health.

 

What I find ridiculous is this guff that the NBT have a good reputation and Dave Mayall is lying because he says 15 people were manning the boats when he encountered them, but the photos only show 3 people.

 

I have followed Mayalld's posts with interest and do not doubt the veracity of them. I think this one while pertinent to the problems of using volunteers and image were a red herring regarding whether NBT had acted oafishly on this occasion and blocked the canal. Also, I respect whoever the spokesperson for NBT is and understand that they will endeavour to rebuff anything untoward with whatever evidence is at their disposal. I would also anticipate there acknowledgement of wrong doing and apology for it where that is evidential.

 

I've seen sepia photos of Victorians. Does this mean that all Victorians had yellow skin? Don't be so daft.

Dave is raising a valid point and you are attempting to ride roughshod over his views on the basis that the majority don't agree. This is arrogant. Who are you to say what the majority think? Have you carried out some form of ballot? And secondly irrespective of the majority, if one person has a bad experience then one person has had a bad experience and that needs to be recognised and dealt with constructively. It doesn't matter what everybody else thinks.

 

I do not disagree with the last above and it seems to me that NBT does as well with some individuals thereof with more intimate knowledge trying to explain, give reasons add accuracy, whatever.

 

Much the same as at Thrupp, in fact. Where some boats got past but one could not. That doesn't make the one crew in charge of that boat 'wrong', does it? They are still having a problem, irrespective of what happened for everybody else.

I don't actually care whether there was a real problem or not. What I care about is that someone had what they thought was a problem and rather than listen to them you are playing the majority card: "well everybody else thought it was all right". Firstly, how do you know? And secondly, so what?

 

If the army came round tomorrow and shot one of youir loved ones, would you only complain if it had happened to the majority of people that you knew?

 

English people tend not to complain. It is generally easier to grit one's teeth and get on with it. So the fact that people haven't complained doesn't automatically mean that everything is wonderful. And if one person does complain, take their views seriously, because there are probably another 10 who haven't said anything, but should have done.

Sorry but I do actually care whether there was a real problem or not and that is the crux of the matter and why I have bothered to post otherwise it is just the bollox mentioned earlier.

 

As regards complaining. We are becoming an increasingly litiguous society. Too many complaints are made by the wrong people! If you look at health statutory service complaints in their quality reports the vast majority are not upheld and a significant number are merely vexacious. On the other hand, there are lots of vulnerable people who could make legitimate complaints but lack the enthusiasm and ability to persue them.

[carlt]

With photographic evidence like this, NBT can hardly plead "not guilty" to the allegations of bizarre and unnatural behaviour.

 

Get a room!

[RLWP]

With photographic evidence like this, NBT can hardly plead "not guilty" to the allegations of bizarre and unnatural behaviour.

 

Get a room!

 

Presumably he's the cabin boy, and they are continuing ancient nautical traditions

 

Richard

[twbm]

It's a little known fact that there is a golden rivet under Nuneatons counter.

[Josher]

Not seen anything like this before ... what happens when the man at the back tugs on the rope?

[Hairy-Neil]

Presumably he's the cabin boy, and they are continuing ancient nautical traditions

 

Richard

 

Roger wasn't on that trip.....