Narrow Boat Trust - where are you?

[mayalld]

Dave M -

 

I checked what Keith said about the crewing numbers in the 'incident' at Hillmorton in the latest issue of the Steerer and crewing that day was just three and no other NBT member was present (all reports mention any member's presence) so I can only assume they must have been other boaters or sightseers happily mucking in to help which can be much harder to co-ordinate.

 

They were behind schedule due to the butty experiencing problems with the bottom ellum pin. and lots of hold ups due to lack of dredging. As for the earlier incidence of disrupting boats at Rugby I would have thought that even on tick over the displacement of water by two heavily loaded boats (over 40 tons of coal) ploughing through the silt on the bottom would make moored boats move about a bit but thats must be better than losing headway and bashing them. Inexperienced boaters don't realise this when they moor up and hence perfunctorily placed pins come out.

 

Personally I think the Hillmorton locks are cursed - hence the satanic rituals to ward of evil spirits.

 

The unravelling of the snubber at Hillmorton in photo taken on the steerer's camera by passer by.

 

Well, thank you for the interesting photograph. It is good to know that NBT is such an inclusive organisation.

 

More seriously, yes the picture shows 3 people and I have little doubt that the log shows 3 members if that is what someody with access to the log is claiming.

 

However...

 

I am not talking about how many NBT members were present. I am talking about the number of people who were clearly involved with the operation of the boats, and who were being allowed to become involved with the operation of the boats by those who were steering.

 

Among the 15 that I say, 4 were female, one of whom spoke to me as I was closing the gates in the first lock to tell me how to operate a lock. When speaking, she very clearly referred to what was going on with the NBT boats as "us", "we" and "our". She clearly represented herself as a part of the crew.

 

In the earlier incident at Rugby, the boats were not at tickover, they were moving at a brisk walking pace. In addition, there were several people sat on coal bags in the hold. Even if not NBT members, it is disingenuous to claim that people who travel on the boat and work the locks are anything other than "crew".

 

You don't explicitly state that the 3 people photographed were the 3 NBT members present. If that is the case, then there is another problem with the account that NBT puts forward. The steerer of the butty as it passed Rugby is NOT any of those people. The butty steerer was mid-20's with longer hair than any of the men pictured. When theboats were floundering in the pound at Hilmorton, he was on the stern of the motor, instructing us to hold off, before (after 10 minutes of faffing about) "allowing" us to take the lock that wasn't fouled by the stranded boat.

 

Given all that has been said about H&S, I am most surprised that NBT permits so many random strangers to operate its boats without even a perfuinctory record of their presence being kept.

[sociable_hermit]

Sorry but I do actually care whether there was a real problem or not and that is the crux of the matter and why I have bothered to post otherwise it is just the bollox mentioned earlier.

 

As regards complaining. We are becoming an increasingly litiguous society. Too many complaints are made by the wrong people! If you look at health statutory service complaints in their quality reports the vast majority are not upheld and a significant number are merely vexacious. On the other hand, there are lots of vulnerable people who could make legitimate complaints but lack the enthusiasm and ability to persue them.

 

Let me explain that more clearly. I am not interested in whether there was a real problem, as opposed to a perceived problem, because at the moment a complaint is made you cannot distinguish between the two. Therefore it is necessary to listen to anybody who has a complaint, and take their opinions on board, and then sort things out. This may involve nothing more than a conversation to sort out a misunderstanding, it may involve a lot more.

 

Saying to a complainant "Your opinion doesn't match the majority" is arrogant and irrelevant in equal measure, because you're not dealing with a majority, you're dealing with one person in one place at one time, and it's their perception (right or wrong) that matters at that moment. Furthermore, what proof do you have that the majority were actually happy, anyway? The fact that most people don't say anything doesn't signify satisfaction any more than it signifies dissatisfaction. BW do this a lot - they claim to 'own' the majority opinion and use this to justify their own actions whilst riding roughshod over anyone who disagrees. In other words, they don't listen because they think they know best - they claim that they represent the majority, so if you disagree with them you must automatically be in the minority, in which case your point can be ignored. Very clever, but suicide from a commercial point of view - a business would be in big trouble if it carried on like that. As would a Trust.

Edited July 23, 2010 by sociable_hermit

[Roger t' Bodger]

No I wasn't, sadly, but I thought you would all like that photo and one following it as it shows no more than THREE PEOPLE who are members of the NBT and were the only NBT crew at Hillmorton.

 

I have to admit some heavy retouching to the first photo but just to remove a member....

 

Boom! Boom! - as Basil the Fox would say....

 

The first two photos are in the public domain - ie the last issue of the Steerer.

[carlt]

[Roger t' Bodger]

However...

 

I am not talking about how many NBT members were present. I am talking about the number of people who were clearly involved with the operation of the boats, and who were being allowed to become involved with the operation of the boats by those who were steering.

 

Among the 15 that I say, 4 were female, one of whom spoke to me as I was closing the gates in the first lock to tell me how to operate a lock. When speaking, she very clearly referred to what was going on with the NBT boats as "us", "we" and "our". She clearly represented herself as a part of the crew.

 

In the earlier incident at Rugby, the boats were not at tickover, they were moving at a brisk walking pace. In addition, there were several people sat on coal bags in the hold. Even if not NBT members, it is disingenuous to claim that people who travel on the boat and work the locks are anything other than "crew".

 

You don't explicitly state that the 3 people photographed were the 3 NBT members present. If that is the case, then there is another problem with the account that NBT puts forward. The steerer of the butty as it passed Rugby is NOT any of those people. The butty steerer was mid-20's with longer hair than any of the men pictured. When theboats were floundering in the pound at Hilmorton, he was on the stern of the motor, instructing us to hold off, before (after 10 minutes of faffing about) "allowing" us to take the lock that wasn't fouled by the stranded boat.

 

 

 

Given all that has been said about H&S, I am most surprised that NBT permits so many random strangers to operate its boats without even a perfuinctory record of their presence being kept.

(Quote)

 

I'm really puzzled here because I heard the story of the trip in detail a week later, last July, from the steerer and he made no mention of NBT people turning up on the Thursday 16th of July 2009 at Hillmorton in the rain, but he was full of the incident with the snubber over his beer, especially in regards to the photos taken. And the three people you see in the first photo were, as far as I know (and why would anyone lie?) crewing the boats. Like I said before we always mention NBT members in reports to achnowledge, their minor, but much welcomed. role who turn up to help at different stages. The last person who did that was Trevor to help just at the Atherstone flight because there was only three crew members. The next NBT member to meet the boats was at Braunston that night, and was there to load the EcoLogs and give the famished crew a pot of chilli.

 

So I've had these two seperate versions of this incident and yours, David. The report by John Stevens mentions other problems and incidences that might be seen as incompetent or careless crewing and steering so why hide this faffing about at Hillmorton. I've looked carefully through all the photos of this part of the trip (I'm the NBT archivist) There aren't that many as there wasn't the space for the three crew members (only two had cameras) to do much documenting but where possible they take photos showing other members helping for the Steerer primarily. This business of phantom members steering or seen riding is a mystery. I've no doubt this will be discussed with the steerer in depth over a forthcoming beer very shortly and I ve no doubt choice words will be spoken!

 

Mind you, have you got the right date? David? It could have been another year and another snubber....

 

This is the visage of the chap who was the third NBT member and born natural to the tiller - many of you know him.

 

 

No I wasn't, sadly, but I thought you would all like that photo and one following it as it shows no more than THREE PEOPLE who are members of the NBT and were the only NBT crew at Hillmorton.

 

I have to admit some heavy retouching to the first photo but just to remove a member....

 

Boom! Boom! - as Basil the Fox would say....

 

The first two photos are in the public domain - ie the last issue of the Steerer.

 

 

Sorry Basil - - as Basil Brush would say.

[mayalld]

Mind you, have you got the right date? David? It could have been another year and another snubber....

 

Yes, it was most definitely last year, as that is the only time we have ever been on the Oxford Canal. Don't your picture archives show us?

 

BTW, I am interested that this trip should be in the latest issue of your magazine, when others from NBT have criticised mention of it as old news. How can a trip that is in your latest magazine be old news?

[JohnO]

 

First two things I was shown by old boatman was "don't stand alongside Ram's head, stand on the step" and "don't sit on the cabin when steering" that's not how we did it! It's the youngsters with bad habit's who do it now"

Edited July 23, 2010 by JohnO

[carlt]

First two things I was shown by old boatman was "don't stand alongside Ram's head, stand on the step" and "don't sit on the cabin when steering" that's not how we did it! It's the youngsters with bad habit's who do it now"

Well It depends on how you define youngsters but I have photos going back to the 30s showing the steerer sat on the cabin roof.

[Roger t' Bodger]

Yes, it was most definitely last year, as that is the only time we have ever been on the Oxford Canal. Don't your picture archives show us?

 

BTW, I am interested that this trip should be in the latest issue of your magazine, when others from NBT have criticised mention of it as old news. How can a trip that is in your latest magazine be old news?

 

 

Simply because I didn't recognise your descrition of events.

 

First two things I was shown by old boatman was "don't stand alongside Ram's head, stand on the step" and "don't sit on the cabin when steering" that's not how we did it! It's the youngsters with bad habit's who do it now"

 

 

This was a long stretch without locks so not much to do accept pace one's self through a long day and that includes aching legs. Humans aren't made to spend all day standing day after day and if they do all sorts of problems occur later in life.

 

Almost time for another video

 

Yes, it was most definitely last year, as that is the only time we have ever been on the Oxford Canal. Don't your picture archives show us?

 

BTW, I am interested that this trip should be in the latest issue of your magazine, when others from NBT have criticised mention of it as old news. How can a trip that is in your latest magazine be old news?

 

 

I'll post what I have and probably what there is....

[Roger t' Bodger]

 

These are from around that day Thursday 16th July with a brace of photos of Hawkesbury Junction before and Braunston after. I can't say where they were taken except for the snubber photo taken by a member of the public, the rest by the two camera owning crew. There are a couple of others but they are of the same locations taken seconds apart so show nothing different. The waterskier can't be seen hanging onto the back of Brighton due the unfortunate camera angle.

 

These aren't in chronological order, incidentally, if they're geographically confusing....

[twbm]

NBT Members reading: Male, mid twenties, longish hair. No member springs to mind: can anyone assist?

 

Or were the boat stolen at some time?

 

Or was it our boats in the first place?

[mayalld]

NBT Members reading: Male, mid twenties, longish hair. No member springs to mind: can anyone assist?

 

Or were the boat stolen at some time?

 

Or was it our boats in the first place?

 

It may well be that the hordes of additional crew were not actually members.

 

However, if the members on the boats allow them to participate in the working of the boats, then you need to accept that they are part of the crew, and that the person in charge should ensure that they behave properly. If they can't do this, they must ensure that non-members don't interfere with the working of the boats.

 

An yes, it was your boats.

[twbm]

This picture taken on the 15th July. On the motor is the dominant male to be seen exercising his captainly rights in the photo above, on the butty the rope holder. The lad who was being shown the Golden Rivet is out of shot, presumably asking the other crew members to keep their heads down as I don't have Photoshop. The amount of prop wash from Nuneaton and the slack rope are indicative of the sort of week they had had so far, scraping along the bottom and at one point snapping the bottom pin on the 'ellum, ably repaired by some very fine people who's names escape me. I remember taking a days leave at very short notice to turn out and lend a hand as the three chaps were flagging somewhat. I also remember being a bit concerned about leaving them to it that night (15th) as there was no one to come out and assist the next day.

 

This adds nothing to the thread at all but I reckon if we keep this going for another week we might get a few more people who are open minded enough to come and see for themsleves.

 

We're at Newbury this weekend.

 

 

 

An yes, it was your boats.

 

That was pushing my luck a bit to be fair.

[carlt]

......I reckon if we keep this going for another week we might get a few more people who are open minded enough to come and see for themsleves.

 

We're at Newbury this weekend.

Ooooh! Open minded??

 

Can I bring my gimp suit?

[twbm]

Can I bring my gimp suit?

 

Course you can. I'll provide the Swarfega and bicycle pump.

[carlt]

[twbm]

 

 

You win. Off to take paracetamol, belly hurting through laughing.

Edited July 23, 2010 by twbm

[Chertsey]

God Carl, any excuse to post that picture.

[Derek R.]

Clearly something is causing a blockage.

[twbm]

Clearly something is causing a blockage.

 

Hopefully definately not us (allegedly) on this occasion.

[carlt]

God Carl, any excuse to post that picture.

It wasn't me who posted it last time!

[rrt2]

 

 

Is this the reserve air tank for the jacuzzi

[Roger t' Bodger]

Crikey! This getting silly! Didn't they all die in the League of Gentlemen? But then what can be more sheltered than that of a cellar with a farting dog?

 

Back to some level of morality! Film Time! The Lesser and More Absorbing Christian Film Unit has threaded and tutted over the film projector so back some form of o normality! And you at the front, stop figgeting!

 

Amongst those captured in this video are some, but not all by any means, of those who present some of the wobblers and shakers of the NBT! God forbid!

 

Refreshments will be served after the talk on personal and moral cleanliness.

 

http://www.vimeo.com/3777250

 

Stop it now!

[Roger t' Bodger]

Crikey! This getting silly! Didn't they all die in the League of Gentlemen? But then what can be more sheltered than that of a cellar with a farting dog?

 

Back to some level of morality! Film Time! The Lesser and More Absorbing Christian Film Unit has threaded and tutted over the film projector so back some form of o normality! And you at the front, stop figgeting!

 

Amongst those captured in this video are some, but not all by any means, of those who present some of the wobblers and shakers of the NBT! God forbid!

 

Refreshments will be served after the talk on personal and moral cleanliness.

 

http://www.vimeo.com/3777250

 

Stop it now!

 

 

This is the wrong film!

[carlt]

This is the wrong film!

One from your "private collection"?