Narrow Boat Trust - where are you?

[alan_fincher]

Chill you guys, it's getting all too much!

 

http://www.vimeo.com/6210077 shows how it should be done

How it should be done ?

 

Look at about 1 minute 20.

 

If one of the pair is going to le ave a lock first isn't it usually the motor ?

[Derek R.]

I've run out of crisps - anyone got spare?

 

Derek

[mayalld]

Roger,

 

We have discussed this at council and have already taken pro-active steps to avoid this sort of unfortunate incident in the future. What we can't deal with is people who take any opportunity to repeatedly revive old incidents long after we are in a position to effectively investigate matters, regurgitating previously aired complaints to so as to denigrate the Trust. Some of the contributors to this thread should consider that if no matter how hard we try to get it right we are still going to have incidents from months or years ago thrown back at us, we might be forgiven for not bothering.

 

Whilst I'm at it:

 

We have never purported to be experts. Far from it - as has been said repeatedly many of our crew are inexperienced.

If any of our crews pull the 'make way for working boats' stunt please PM me straight away. The only boats that belong to the trust have got Narrow Boat Trust written on the side of the tin. (That I think being one of the reasons we are so easy to target - if we hid behind the livery of a long dead carrying company we'd be lost in the crowd.)

 

Moving forward, if there is credible evidence that we have got things wrong we will do our best to remedy the situation. An opportunity to address issues before they go public would be appreciated. If we are unjustly criticised we will defend ourselves vigourously.

 

Meanwhile, it seems there really is no such thing as bad publicity - two new potential members from this thread.

 

We will be at Newbury this weekend - feel free to come and talk to us face to face, it's so much better when you get the non-verbal communication too.

 

Trevor Winterbottom

NBT Council Member

Other contact details on the NBT website.

 

That is encouraging.

 

Yes, you could possibly accuse me of dredging up a long dead incident, although from a previous response, it would seem that the incident I refer to is still remembered, and as such you are probably in a position to investigate it.

 

I think the lesson here is that if you DO investigate, and after doing so state your conclusions, and assure people that the appropriate measures are being taken (if relevant) people are not going to regurgitate old incidents.

 

If any reports of incidents are responded to instantly by vehement denials without any proper investigation, then old problems will inevitably be regurgitated, because they were never properly resolved.

[Roger t' Bodger]

How it should be done ?

 

Look at about 1 minute 20.

 

If one of the pair is going to le ave a lock first isn't it usually the motor ?

 

 

Teri on the butty is disabled and wanted one of Tony's sausage baguettes at the tearooms so the butty went out first so to be next to the towpath. I explained this last year - pay attention!

[alan_fincher]

Teri on the butty is disabled and wanted one of Tony's sausage baguettes at the tearooms so the butty went out first so to be next to the towpath. I explained this last year - pay attention!

Ah,

 

Even though my wife complains I waste far, far too much time on the forum, even I can't claim to have a photographic memory of every single post from last year.

 

(At least I way paying attention during the film, though!.....)

[the grinch]

it was Peter Froud who perfected the art of towing the motor with the butty back in the early days of IWHC when the motor broke down regularly.

[Maffi]

maffi,

You live/moor maybe half a mile from the bridge, if you print out or make a sketch of the photo you could get a much better idea of the composition of the pictures I took. Camera at eye level about 5"6' standing on the lift bridge, next to the hand rail on the gunpowder wharf side.

We moored on the water point took on water about 15 litres at the most

As soon as we were moored (gone 8-30 ) I walked to the pub to ask what time they stopped doing food ( its 9-30 by the way) I was expecting it to be 9-00, Walked back to the boats, I saw one boat on the water point. To the best of my knowledge they made no attempt to lift the bridge and try to get past us. Even if they had come through where would they have got to at that time of the night.

 

We came down the Oxford that day from Aynho, we had a problem with the bottom being to near the top at the last three locks before mooring at Thrupp. At the locks mentioned above the pound was flowing over the weir so that means the pound is full. We would also have let more water into the Thrupp pound by having to flush the motor and the butty out of said locks.

There was a private boat (Lionel) following ( they were really marvelous with us as despite being asked if they wanted to go by the said no and the gent on the boat helped us to get the butty out of one lock and also unstick the motor at another. We saw no other boats behind us that day. The fabled hire boat that we apparently held up by mooring at Thrupp in the place advised by the mooring warden only appeared much later and my own thoughts are that mrsmelly caused there "hold up " if indeed they actually were held up by incorrectly telling them that they could not get past us. Again the following day we had a long wait for a fallen tree to to be cleared and again the hire boat from Thrupp was not seen.

 

You seem to have a lot of knowledge about the hire boat in question Yet gunpowder wharf is a good half mile from the lift bridge at Thrupp.

 

I dont see why where I live has anything to do with this. (more flim flam from NBT) I work at the bridge. Saturday and Sunday are my longest working days. On the Sunday I serviced the day boats that nb Deddington moored abreast of. I see the view through the bridge nearly every day. I saw the view through the bridge that morning. I spoke to you that morning while I was taking photographs.You may remember me I mentioned that the BW post got in the way of the pictures.

 

I was at the bridge on Sunday and spoke to the steerer of Deddington who was still at that time pissed that you were, in his view, blocking the canal. Even in the full light of the day he was not prepared to take his boat through the bridge until after you had gone. He was worried about damaging the paintwork given that the boat is next to new.

 

It doesnt matter where you were on the bridge the picture is zoomed and does not show what the hirer boater would have seen either in distance or in height to suggest that it does is just more bollox!

 

You ask where they were going to go at that time of night. None of your concern! As long as the light is good he can keep going. It is not for you to decide when others boats should stop. As it happens they would have got moored further down either at the Jolly Boatman or certainly between Sparrowgap bridge and Gunpowder Wharf (there were only two boats moored there).

 

The fact that you were held up by a fallen tree is irrelevant. Was that the fallen tree in Dukes cut? Deddington may have gone down the canal to Oxford. Or if you went down the canal he may have been going to Lechlade. Maybe you were going too fast for him to catch up or he too slow (his first day on a narrowboat was the day before)

 

I am surprised that you mention that the bottom was too close the top above Thrupp yet no mention of the sandbar at Roundham which has caught out many a boat myself included. The lower Oxford is notorious for its lack of depth so isnt it a bit daft bringing a loaded boat down it espcially in the middle of the season?

 

Anyway as for me living half a mile away and knowing so much about the hire boat it really is simple I spoke to them you didn't. Given that you knew it was a hire boat, albeit from Mrs Melly, dont you think you should have?

Edited July 22, 2010 by Maffi

[blodger]

I dont see why where I live has anything to do with this. (more flim flam from NBT) I work at the bridge. Saturday and Sunday are my longest working days. On the Sunday I serviced the day boats that nb Deddington moored abreast of. I see the view through the bridge nearly every day. I saw the view through the bridge that morning. I spoke to you that morning while I was taking photographs.You may remember me I mentioned that the BW post got in the way of the pictures.

 

I was at the bridge on Sunday and spoke to the steerer of Deddington who was still at that time pissed that you were, in his view, blocking the canal. Even in the full light of the day he was not prepared to take his boat through the bridge until after you had gone. He was worried about damaging the paintwork given that the boat is next to new.

 

It doesnt matter where you were on the bridge the picture is zoomed and does not show what the hirer boater would have seen either in distance or in height to suggest that it does is just more bollox!

 

You ask where they were going to go at that time of night. None of your concern! As long as the light is good he can keep going. It is not for you to decide when others boats should stop. As it happens they would have got moored further down either at the Jolly Boatman or certainly between Sparrowgap bridge and Gunpowder Wharf (there were only two boats moored there).

 

The fact that you were held up by a fallen tree is irrelevant. Was that the fallen tree in Dukes cut? Deddington may have gone down the canal to Oxford. Or if you went down the canal he may have been going to Lechlade. Maybe you were going too fast for him to catch up or he too slow (his first day on a narrowboat was the day before)

 

I am surprised that you mention that the bottom was too close the top above Thrupp yet no mention of the sandbar at Roundham which has caught out many a boat myself included. The lower Oxford is notorious for its lack of depth so isnt it a bit daft bringing a loaded boat down it espcially in the middle of the season?

Anyway as for me living half a mile away and knowing so much about the hire boat it really is simple I spoke to them you didn't. Given that you knew it was a hire boat, albeit from Mrs Melly, dont you think you should have?

Works both ways. If I thought the canal was blocked I would have walked nearer to look and spoken to what I thought was the blockage, not peered at it from a distance fuming. Anyway, It has been established has it not that the canal was not actually blocked? What you are saying is that an inexperienced hirer thought it was blocked from a distance and from other posts it would seem that said hirer was helped to moor in consequence by those of experience who could have helped otherwise?

The working boats moving over the network help ensure that there remains a decent depth navigable channel. I do not see why they should not move loadss or tie up for the silly season!

I had/have some involvement with the WCBS, Wooden Canal Boat Society, and have helped move them in the past. I have never quite understood the disdain in which they are held by some which seems to extend to all working boats unless they have been refurbished to modern standards.

Edited July 22, 2010 by blodger

[Chertsey]

Having skimmed through the last few pages of this, and looking at in very general terms, I suspect that the difference in competence, and possibly boorishness, is not related so much to the age and provenance of the boats, as the nature of the crews - enthusiastic but often very inexperienced volunteers (I am thinking very much of Tarporley too here) who may not have received much training but have been given the impression that what they have been taught is the only 'right' way to do it, and who lack the self assurance to take and respond appropriately to criticism from others. Though the NBT and CCNA do both operate former working boats I suspect this is incidental, as similar (and worse) has been observed on modern community boats.

 

As for private owners of old boats being boorish and cocky - of course some are, but so are plenty of owners of shiny semi trads and any other kind of boat you care to mention.

[Hairy-Neil]

.......so isnt it a bit daft bringing a loaded boat down it espcially in the middle of the season?

 

Not so daft as letting folks loose on a hire boat with no experience.

 

If not for the commitment (and the not insignificant benefacting of Captain Baulkley-Johnson) of the last remaining working boats carrying long after the motor lorry made it unviable, the canals would have closed and disappeared 50 years ago as did the unprofitable railways swept away by Beeching. Be grateful that Willow Wren kept the Oxford Canal open for you to enjoy today.

[alan_fincher]

The lower Oxford is notorious for its lack of depth so isnt it a bit daft bringing a loaded boat down it espcially in the middle of the season?

Actually, looking at the published pictures of Nuneaton and Brighton at Thrupp, they really are not that heavily loaded, are they ? (Look at the butty rear, to see how much deeper it has been loaded before that).

 

I'd suggest trying to get them up and down the Oxford is really not a lot dafter than those locals there who tell you an R W Davis or a Steve Hudson are ideal cruising boats - can't be a lot in it in terms depth of water needed to float in.

 

I totally endorse the comments Chertsey has just made - about right, I'd say and I have certainly witnessed far worse boating performance by volunteer crews of some modern community boats than anything I have ever seen any of the volunteers crews of "heritage working pairs" do.

[mykaskin]

Actually, looking at the published pictures of Nuneaton and Brighton at Thrupp, they really are not that heavily loaded, are they ? (Look at the butty rear, to see how much deeper it has been loaded before that).

 

An empty working boat can draw a similar amount to a "loaded" one, putting 19 tons into mine just brought the bow down to the same depth of the stern - though on shallow canals I can run with the uxter plate out of the water reducing my static draft, but since it reduces the 'fan hold' and makes stopping difficult, I ran it loaded with the uxter plate in the water!

 

The town class boats were designed for shallower canals, and so can be run loaded with the uxter plate in the water and still draw less than 3 foot... as I found on the North Oxford when Richard Horne on his town class replica quite happily got over shallows that I was stuck on at the time!

 

Both Trust boats were loaded bow heavy, hence looking less loaded from the rear.

 

Mike

[Roger t' Bodger]

Who would have thought this simple enquiry thread would run to ten pages and a bit of a roller coaster it's been too but there seems to be a growing concensus that one should treat others as you would expect to be treated as one's self. It also re-enforces the need to impress upon NBT members crewing the boats that they have a responsibility to do just that.

And no pedestals - imaginary or otherwise!

 

Anyway time for some more light relief in a video made featuring NBT two years ago of coming down the Foxton staircase on a barmy summer's afternoon and a certain destination at the bottom. http://www.vimeo.com/5143066

 

www.narrowboattrust.org.uk

[Steilsteven]

Seems this thread has turned into a contest for who is to have the last word.

Well it's obviously not me because no matteer what I say it will be turned around by someone more determined.

 

So over to you.................

 

Keith

[carlt]

NBT wee in their water cans.

[rrt2]

I dont see why where I live has anything to do with this. (more flim flam from NBT) I work at the bridge. Saturday and Sunday are my longest working days. On the Sunday I serviced the day boats that nb Deddington moored abreast of. I see the view through the bridge nearly every day. I saw the view through the bridge that morning. I spoke to you that morning while I was taking photographs.You may remember me I mentioned that the BW post got in the way of the pictures.

 

I was at the bridge on Sunday and spoke to the steerer of Deddington who was still at that time pissed that you were, in his view, blocking the canal. Even in the full light of the day he was not prepared to take his boat through the bridge until after you had gone. He was worried about damaging the paintwork given that the boat is next to new.

 

It doesnt matter where you were on the bridge the picture is zoomed and does not show what the hirer boater would have seen either in distance or in height to suggest that it does is just more bollox!

 

You ask where they were going to go at that time of night. None of your concern! As long as the light is good he can keep going. It is not for you to decide when others boats should stop. As it happens they would have got moored further down either at the Jolly Boatman or certainly between Sparrowgap bridge and Gunpowder Wharf (there were only two boats moored there).

 

The fact that you were held up by a fallen tree is irrelevant. Was that the fallen tree in Dukes cut? Deddington may have gone down the canal to Oxford. Or if you went down the canal he may have been going to Lechlade. Maybe you were going too fast for him to catch up or he too slow (his first day on a narrowboat was the day before)

 

I am surprised that you mention that the bottom was too close the top above Thrupp yet no mention of the sandbar at Roundham which has caught out many a boat myself included. The lower Oxford is notorious for its lack of depth so isnt it a bit daft bringing a loaded boat down it espcially in the middle of the season?

 

Anyway as for me living half a mile away and knowing so much about the hire boat it really is simple I spoke to them you didn't. Given that you knew it was a hire boat, albeit from Mrs Melly, dont you think you should have?

 

Hello Maffi,

I don't recollect talking to you at all but my memory for that morning is not to good.

If you can tell me how to change a photgraph after it has been taken without using any thing in photoshop other than the crop tool to reduce the unwanted parts, unsharp masking to sharpen up the slightly soft results you get from a digital camera, and then to save it at lower resulution to reduce the file size I would like to know.

The fallen tree in Dukes is relevant, we waited there for at least two hours and the only boat seen was Lionel.

I make no decision as to where other boats stop. Athough you seem to as you mention this passage.

 

"You ask where they were going to go at that time of night. None of your concern! As long as the light is good he can keep going. It is not for you to decide when others boats should stop. As it happens they would have got moored further down either at the Jolly Boatman or certainly between Sparrowgap bridge and Gunpowder Wharf (there were only two boats moored there)."

 

My comment was just to say that it was getting close to dark and they by the terms of the hire agreement would not have been able continue boating for much longer.

 

At no time have I said the photo was a view from a boaters point of view. I have all ready told you the height above the bridge it was taken from.

I am also waiting from you an explanation of the term "zoomed you used.

 

"It doesnt matter where you were on the bridge the picture is zoomed and does not show what the hirer boater would have seen either in distance or in height to suggest that it does is just more bollox! .

I also see that you have to resort to swearing to try to get your point across.

 

Roundham is above Thrupp

 

"Bringing a loaded boat down" As you say to me none of your business.

 

Barry Adams

Narrow Boat Trust

Crewing Co-ordinator

 

Not so daft as letting folks loose on a hire boat with no experience.

 

If not for the commitment (and the not insignificant benefacting of Captain Baulkley-Johnson) of the last remaining working boats carrying long after the motor lorry made it unviable, the canals would have closed and disappeared 50 years ago as did the unprofitable railways swept away by Beeching. Be grateful that Willow Wren kept the Oxford Canal open for you to enjoy today.

 

Thats another pint I owe you when we finally meet

[Roger t' Bodger]

NBT wee in their water cans.

 

 

 

Make this the last word Please!!!

[twbm]

[Roger t' Bodger]

Definately the last word or we'll be lynched at the IWA national!

 

http://www.vimeo.com/4925878

[soldthehouse]

Who would have thought this simple enquiry thread would run to ten pages and a bit of a roller coaster it's been too but there seems to be a growing concensus that one should treat others as you would expect to be treated as one's self. It also re-enforces the need to impress upon NBT members crewing the boats that they have a responsibility to do just that.

And no pedestals - imaginary or otherwise!

 

Anyway time for some more light relief in a video made featuring NBT two years ago of coming down the Foxton staircase on a barmy summer's afternoon and a certain destination at the bottom. http://www.vimeo.com/5143066

 

www.narrowboattrust.org.uk

Another gem of a flick, especially the Jack White Band, I now listen to this type of music more and more

 

Definately the last word or we'll be lynched at the IWA national!

 

http://www.vimeo.com/4925878

Ditto the flick and Jay Whidden

[Maffi]

If you can tell me how to change a photgraph after it has been taken without using any thing in photoshop other than the crop tool to reduce the unwanted parts, unsharp masking to sharpen up the slightly soft results you get from a digital camera, and then to save it at lower resulution to reduce the file size I would like to know.

I have responded to your pm

The fallen tree in Dukes is relevant, we waited there for at least two hours and the only boat seen was Lionel.

I make no decision as to where other boats stop. Athough you seem to as you mention this passage.

It just that there was a BW notice at the waterpoint saying boats going south to Oxford should not use Dukes due to falling water levels in the river. I wondered why you chose that route that's all.

My comment was just to say that it was getting close to dark and they by the terms of the hire agreement would not have been able continue boating for much longer.

You can believe I know the conditions of hire. And again how much longer he could have continued was his decision.

At no time have I said the photo was a view from a boaters point of view. I have all ready told you the height above the bridge it was taken from.

Yes you did 5'6" but not when you posted the picture! What was actually said was "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, Exhibits A and B for your consideration."

 

I am also waiting from you an explanation of the term "zoomed you used.

Focal Length: 63 is telephoto though only slightly

 

Cropping a picture has a similar effect to zooming, in that it gives the impression you are closer to the subject than (as in this case) reality would allow.

 

I also see that you have to resort to swearing to try to get your point across.

Nothing wrong with your eye sight then. Occasionally bollox is exactly the right word

 

Roundham is above Thrupp

 

Oh really when did they move that up there then? Bloody BW 200 + years that lock has been south of Thrupp and now they have gone and moved it. Is nothing sacred?

 

"Bringing a loaded boat down" As you say to me none of your business.

 

What I actually said was 'The lower Oxford is notorious for its lack of depth so isnt it a bit daft bringing a loaded boat down it espcially in the middle of the season?' It was part observation part rhetorical question and certainly not a rebuke of any kind.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Maffi

[carlt]

The flat cap question remains unanswered.

[Steilsteven]

The flat cap question remains unanswered.

 

I have it on good authority ( from the Steerer) that no member of the crew was wearing or even in posession of a flat cap.

He himself was wearing, as he always does, his Breton cap.

 

A bit like Daves' claim of fifteen crew members really, as there was actually only three and there is photographic evidence of this and a full trip report,which was written long before Dave got the bee in his bonnet.

 

Here we gooooo!!

 

Keith.

[sociable_hermit]

By the way, Carl, you stated that you always leave a marker light on your boat if it's moored in a bridge-hole overnight (didn't Lonnie Donegan sing about that?). And now you're going to leave us some beer as well.

 

I generally try very hard not to like people, but you may be the exception.

[mayalld]

A bit like Daves' claim of fifteen crew members really, as there was actually only three and there is photographic evidence of this and a full trip report,which was written long before Dave got the bee in his bonnet.

 

Well, I know damn well that when I met the NBT boats making a complete hash of things, there were 15 people involved in the movement of those boats through the locks. Doubtless you will claim that some of them weren't officially "crew", but they were involved in moving the boat with the consent of the steerer.

 

Quite what photographic evidence you might have to disprove that mystifies me. I am sure that you have some pictures showing only three people, but the FACT is that there were 15. A picture with 3 people on it doesn't "prove" anything.

 

Just when I was beginning to think that NBT was actually trying to set its house in order, you have moved into full scale "Deny everything, and call anybody who says anything we don't want to hear a liar".

 

It seems to me that if NBT is to rebuild its public image, step number one must be to replace those who are in denial.