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Ex BW Work boats for sale

Allan(nb Albert)

By Allan(nb Albert)
in General Boating

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stagedamager Experienced

stagedamager

Posted
Posted
The bow of this boat is indeed formed from the stern section of a Yarwood's station boat but not Willow Wren's Heron ex-Caleb. This boat is still full length and is a houseboat at Oxford. I co-owned it for awhile and would have noticed if BW had nicked the back end! It has been suggested that BW's Heron is ex-Delhi but I am not sure if this can be substantiated. It is likely however to have been the bit left over from one of their pleasure boat conversions from a station boat around 1960.

 

Anyone ob the Llangollen want to buy Heron?

 

Paul H

 

I stand duly corrected, my apologies for the error, i think the last thing you would have wanted is someone stealing your back end!!!!!

Regards

Dan

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pete harrison Veteran

pete harrison

Posted
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The bow of this boat is indeed formed from the stern section of a Yarwood's station boat but not Willow Wren's Heron ex-Caleb. This boat is still full length and is a houseboat at Oxford. I co-owned it for awhile and would have noticed if BW had nicked the back end! It has been suggested that BW's Heron is ex-Delhi but I am not sure if this can be substantiated. It is likely however to have been the bit left over from one of their pleasure boat conversions from a station boat around 1960.

 

Anyone on the Llangollen want to buy Heron?

 

Paul H

 

This came from me, and no it can not be substantiated but is being banded about as 'gospel'.

 

I found the 'British Waterways' records that prove the fore end of the iron L.M.S. Station Boat DELHI was converted into the hire cruiser WATER VIPER in the winter of 1959/1960. The stern end of DELHI was not converted in a similar way and a memo in 1961 stated that a spare iron butty stern end at Ocker Hill was not to become a pleasure boat. The memo does not specify what this spare iron butty stern end was or how it was to be used, but DELHI was converted to WATER VIPER at Ocker Hill. Putting two and two together as well as looking at the fate of other iron L.M.S. Station Boat sterns I speculated that the maintenance boat HERON and the missing stern of DELHI COULD be one of the same. There are however other iron L.M.S. Station Boat sterns that are not acounted for and could be the maintenance boat HERON.

 

I suspect that the maintenance boat HERON may well have lost its true identity over the years as I would be amazed if it still retains a B.C.N. gauge plate. Interestingly B.W.B. are giving the original build date of their HERON as 1930 but is that from their records or has that come from their advising

'enthusiasts' who are quoting DELHI's build date ?

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stagedamager Experienced

stagedamager

Posted
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This came from me, and no it can not be substantiated but is being banded about as 'gospel'.

 

I found the 'British Waterways' records that prove the fore end of the iron L.M.S. Station Boat DELHI was converted into the hire cruiser WATER VIPER in the winter of 1959/1960. The stern end of DELHI was not converted in a similar way and a memo in 1961 stated that a spare iron butty stern end at Ocker Hill was not to become a pleasure boat. The memo does not specify what this spare iron butty stern end was or how it was to be used, but DELHI was converted to WATER VIPER at Ocker Hill. Putting two and two together as well as looking at the fate of other iron L.M.S. Station Boat sterns I speculated that the maintenance boat HERON and the missing stern of DELHI COULD be one of the same. There are however other iron L.M.S. Station Boat sterns that are not acounted for and could be the maintenance boat HERON.

 

I suspect that the maintenance boat HERON may well have lost its true identity over the years as I would be amazed if it still retains a B.C.N. gauge plate. Interestingly B.W.B. are giving the original build date of their HERON as 1930 but is that from their records or has that come from their advising

'enthusiasts' who are quoting DELHI's build date ?

 

Many thanks for increasing my boat knowledge Pete!!!!

no evidence of any gauge plates on "Heron" from what we could see, only crudely welded BW index no.s on each end.

Regards

Dan!

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pete harrison Veteran

pete harrison

Posted
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Many thanks for increasing my boat knowledge Pete!!!!

no evidence of any gauge plates on "Heron" from what we could see, only crudely welded BW index no.s on each end.

Regards

Dan!

 

If it still has a B.C.N. gauge plate it will be riveted to the inside of the original stern end, most likely on the left hand side about 8 feet from the stern post.

 

So did you record the "crudely welded BW index no.s on each end" as these may give us a clue ? I have only seen photographs of this HERON but they have never been clear enough to read any numbers !

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DHutch Veteran II

DHutchDonate to Canal World

Posted
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The page suggests that the boats are for sale, but the you first have to express and interest, which will then be considered by a number of BW people.

 

Does anyone know how this is going to work? Are they going to hotlist 5-10 people and then ask them to bit against each other? Sealed bids? Fixed price offered to the one deamed most suitable?

 

How are they going to pick people.

- For instance, would someone who already has a working boat and a wide knowlage win out over someone currently without who mearly keen and able?

- What a about trust/charity/organisation/group or profit making company over and above an individual or entrepreneurial bloke?

 

 

Just tossing ideas in the sky. Several of the boats are really quite nice, if in cases, in need of some work. Others potentially less useful or saleable.

 

 

Daniel

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pete harrison Veteran

pete harrison

Posted
Posted (edited)
hi the numbers we saw today were 80406, i have found another picture of the boat here http://rpm-canal.fotopic.net/p14578980.html, the boat was also full of water

 

Unfortunately British Waterways Board records (from Bradley Workshops) do not tell us any more about 80406 than we already know, except that HERON used to be named No. B39, a name / number I would usually associate with the South Western Division. No. B39 was purchased in March 1955, which is the same purchase date for several (but not all) of the other iron L.M.S. Station Boats. Some British Waterways Board documents refer to No. B39 as the MESS or "coffee boat". No. B39 was the subject of a "major overhaul and refit" at Bradley Workshops in September 1984 so I suspect this is when the current cabin was fitted.

 

So in a nutshell we are no nearer solving the original identity of the maintenance boat HERON.

 

edit - I have just looked at the original April 2006 auction information on HERON prior to it being withdrawn as a 'historic' boat. Interestingly it states built c1959 which would more or less tie up with DELHI being cut in two. Again I do not know where British Waterways Board got this date from, certainly not from any records of theirs that I have seen !

 

 

Well neither Jim Shead nor BW recognise that number so the plot thickens.

 

80406 is the British Waterways Board asset number, usually welded onto the hull somewhere but sometimes on a large number plate attached to the cabin. British Waterways Board gave me access to their floating asset register in 2002 which gives details of about 1000 boats (flats, hoppers, tugs, 'historics' e.t.c.).

 

The numbers on Jim Shead's website are the British Waterways Board Index numbers alternatively known as licence numbers. These are the numbers carried by all pleasure / commercial boats (on black and white pressed aluminium number plates) on British Waterways Board operated waterways as well as on their own maintenance boats (but their maintenance boats are not included on Jim Shead's website - but I do have them if anybody is interested).

Edited by pete harrison
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stagedamager Experienced

stagedamager

Posted
Posted
If it still has a B.C.N. gauge plate it will be riveted to the inside of the original stern end, most likely on the left hand side about 8 feet from the stern post.

 

So did you record the "crudely welded BW index no.s on each end" as these may give us a clue ? I have only seen photographs of this HERON but they have never been clear enough to read any numbers !

There was an extended "deck" welded over the back end, over what would have been the hatches, but no evidence of any plates forward of that, however it was full of rain water so we could have missed them, the mess boat idea rings true, there was evidence of a stove and seating in the cabin. Regards, Dan

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JohnO Community Regular

JohnO

Posted
Posted (edited)
the mess boat idea rings true, there was evidence of a stove and seating in the cabin. Regards, Dan

 

80404 also has a similar cabin and evidence of a stove and seating in the cabin. I think No. B39 MESS or "coffee boat" predate the 80406 asset number and cabin fitting.

 

edit to add

Unless 80404 was the "tea boat"

Edited by JohnO
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pete harrison Veteran

pete harrison

Posted
Posted
80404 also has a similar cabin and evidence of a stove and seating in the cabin. I think No. B39 MESS or "coffee boat" predate the 80406 asset number and cabin fitting.

 

edit to add

Unless 80404 was the "tea boat"

 

The British Waterways Board Asset Register I have seen puts the asset number 80406 and B39 together. Another B.W.B. document makes the reference to "MESS" and "(coffee) boat". I'm afraid I do not know when British Waterways Board started using asset numbers, or at least displaying them on their boats. I also do not know when B39 started to carry the name HERON.

 

Just for the record 80404 is B22, the 'painters boat' which recieved its current cabin after HERON but also at Bradley Workshops.

 

There was an extended "deck" welded over the back end, over what would have been the hatches, but no evidence of any plates forward of that, however it was full of rain water so we could have missed them, the mess boat idea rings true, there was evidence of a stove and seating in the cabin. Regards, Dan

 

If by chance HERON does retain its B.C.N. gauge plate it will be underneath that extended deck. Think of its location as though the original back end had a butty style cabin then the B.C.N. gauge plate would be behind the cabin fire. At least that is where it is located on both HAM and RHINE.

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AMModels Experienced

AMModels

Posted
Posted
The page suggests that the boats are for sale, but the you first have to express and interest, which will then be considered by a number of BW people.

 

Does anyone know how this is going to work? Are they going to hotlist 5-10 people and then ask them to bit against each other? Sealed bids? Fixed price offered to the one deamed most suitable?

 

How are they going to pick people.

- For instance, would someone who already has a working boat and a wide knowlage win out over someone currently without who mearly keen and able?

- What a about trust/charity/organisation/group or profit making company over and above an individual or entrepreneurial bloke?

 

 

Just tossing ideas in the sky. Several of the boats are really quite nice, if in cases, in need of some work. Others potentially less useful or saleable.

 

 

Daniel

 

 

I would love one of these boats and could and would guarantee I would never convert the boat and that it would be available at rallies and other occasions for the public to come aboard and look around and hear a little of the history of canals and boats. However I do not have the funds needed according to the conditions of the expression of intent to restore the boats I would be interested in, I understand the needs of these boats and the reasons BW have indicated them but I am disappointed in the extreme that this is the case in regards to my own case but I hope that whoever BW sell these boats to does not profiteer from the sale and that they are made to sign a covenant in perpetuity and enforcable in any future ownership that the boats are not converted or in any other way defaced.

 

For my money Ibex and Ling are among the best boats there Ling having been looked after particularly well as part of the maintenance fleet down the S&W. Of the others Taygeta and Auriga look in the most original condition and should also be looked after properly hopefully.

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Hairy-Neil Veteran

Hairy-Neil

Posted
Posted
Of the others Taygeta and Auriga look in the most original condition and should also be looked after properly hopefully.

 

Taygeta is in all there but in a parlous state, having extensive overplating up to the top guard. It is quite likely sound, but to restore it would need work on the scale of Leo. If BW were to give it away it would probably be too expensive.....

 

I actually fear for the long term survival of the Taygeta. In my opinion it's the GUCCC boat most likely to be lost to the scrap man.

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Timleech Veteran II

Timleech

Posted
Posted (edited)
Taygeta is in all there but in a parlous state, having extensive overplating up to the top guard. It is quite likely sound, but to restore it would need work on the scale of Leo. If BW were to give it away it would probably be too expensive.....

 

I actually fear for the long term survival of the Taygeta. In my opinion it's the GUCCC boat most likely to be lost to the scrap man.

 

I find it interesting that 'restoration' is taken as the only alternative to scrapping, a bit like PB's response to a couple of photos of manky bits out of a National - 'complete strip down or chuck it out' :lol: . That may be what's needed in that case but the evidence isn't in yet. I have rather more intimate knowledge of the Taygeta, having spent several days a few years ago lying underneath her bottom :lol::lol: , and can confirm that yes, full restoration to 'showroom condition' would be hugely expensive and probably not viable. That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be other ways to keep her going. My understanding is that the only reason she's not in use is that the gunwales are not capped and have ragged internal edges and there's a perceived risk of injury from them. She has a part load of clay aboard which is needed for a job, but can't be used. A few years ago they could have paid someone such as myself a few hundred pounds to sort that out, but now their extra bureaucracy with Achilles registration etc., combined with a lack of money and the heritage boats being out of favour, means that won't be done and they have to use more expensive ways of getting clay to a leak.

 

Tim

Edited by Timleech
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Chris Pink Veteran II

Chris Pink

Posted
Posted (edited)
I find it interesting that 'restoration' is taken as the only alternative to scrapping

 

This is true, it must be realised that these are workboats, only still alive because the original plan for them failed. To keep them going they would have been patched, modified had bits welded on for specific jobs.

 

It doesn't make them any less. They still swim well, they still do their original jobs. They may not look like museum spec to the train spotters but or someone (and the general public) they are just as important a reminder of what the canals were for.

 

After all if you see a BCN boat with lots of riveted patched you don't think 'that's a lost cause'.

 

and Taygetta is one of the nicest looking boats on the list and isn't it a (very rare) full length Middle Northwich?

Edited by Chris Pink
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Hairy-Neil Veteran

Hairy-Neil

Posted
Posted
I have rather more intimate knowledge of the Taygeta, having spent several days a few years ago lying underneath her bottom :lol::lol: , and can confirm that yes, full restoration to 'showroom condition' would be hugely expensive and probably not viable. That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be other ways to keep her going.

 

My comment was based on BW's wish to dispose of these (only) to persons who can provide evidence that they are willing, able and capable of restoring them. They seem unlikely to sell to someone that just wants a cheap hull to build a cheap home on.

 

As BW are seeming to be trying to avoid selling these boats to 'dreamers' and Taygeta is likely to be given a wide berth by all but the most determined or deep pocketed restorer, where else lies the future?

 

I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

 

 

They still swim well, they still do their original jobs. They may not look like museum spec to the train spotters but or someone (and the general public) they are just as important a reminder of what the canals were for.

 

BW used this boat for maintenance in a small specific area. The overplating on Taygeta is likely to have made the boat out of gauge for the pinch locks and bridges dotted about the system.

 

Like you I rue the day when all the BW workboats have been restored to as new. Would love to see Sickle's ice breaker blade reinstated.

 

And yes, Taygeta is a Middle Northwich

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