The pricing of boats another £150k hopefull NB Stafford

[Dominic M]

Since Domninic won't see my post

Thank God (turn of phrase you understand) you're on block. That's disturbing, or rather it would be

[Neil TNC]

Sorry - we were at cross purposes. I thought you were referring to the boat that this topic was supposed to be about. I didn't see Churchward's post as I am an atheist and he is on my block list with a name like that .

 

Have you got something against the GWR as well?

[Dominic M]

Have you got something against the GWR as well?

I prefer Radio 4.

[kingofthecut]

All FMC fore end cants are plain not with sculptured ends.

 

"I'm sure the 3LW is a spankingly nice engine, and is not as ridiculously overpowered as many that people insist on fitting, but were ANY ever fitted to narrowboats ? If so, then very few, I'm sure."

 

I've just had some lovely cants sculptured by the Polish guys on Greyhound and beautiful they look too! http://www.joshers.info/greypol.php

I took Stafford to the boatyard the other day and while I agree with Laurence that it is not as ridiculously overpowered as some may think - it certainly goes well! Modern narrow boat engines though have greater demands than just propulsion with the array of electrics top spec boats are expected to carry and the large alternators they have to throw.

 

Regarding the paintwork, I chose the grey and claim full responsibility for it!

Edited February 21, 2009 by kingofthecut

[andywatson]

Ummm errr table cupboard ? and the range has no flue !

Picky moi or what

Theophilus clicky

 

Chris

 

Phew. You just saved me £150k. Thanks Chris!

 

Obviously the photo is reversed and I'm sure it would need a flue to get it's safety cert(!)

 

- Can you imagine taking it back under warranty, absolutely black bright, coughing like mad and complaining that it seems a bit hot in the back cabin!

[magnetman]

I don't 'do' narrow boats any more but I'm tempted

 

http://www.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?id=102637ℑ=1

 

[david and julie]

I reacted your personal insults, not to your comments on Stafford, Gazelle or whatever. Play nicely and I will too.

 

Twist it around as much as you wish, you are still in the wrong for calling me a F***wit and you know it.

[saltysplash]

I don't 'do' narrow boats any more but I'm tempted

 

http://www.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?id=102637ℑ=1

 

 

 

Go on you little tease, you know you want it

[charles123]

The price has not been "come up with" by either an owner or a broker. It has been come up with by the renovator who is also a professional boat builder. Ring them and ask them how they have arrived at the price. 01827 898585. Let us know what they have to say.

 

The price it took to construct or perceived cache value rarely equate with what a buyer is prepared to pay. In this case in my opinion its well over priced in the same way as other recent examples

 

Gazelle, new seen pictures of the inside but if its in as bad condition as the outside then its not worth more than £60k

That hobbit interior inspired styled butty

That new built motorised butty, that was a real shocker inside and out

Dover, superb spec and build quality, proabaly cost more than its original asking price, sold for much less I understand and is worth its money

Rocket, SM Hudson shell featured in magazine, beautiful boat now for sale at more realistic price and getting nearer its value

Jazz, that gas less Warble boat that is 10 years old but recently appeared in various brokers site, too expensive but coming down in price some way to go yet

 

Having looked at some of the other posters links

 

On the duck is ex steamer Victory, £55k, worn out, dated interior, needs repaint and £15k spending, therefore not good value at that price

Theopolis has more going for it, but externally looks a bit bland and is in need of a decent colour scheme, once again overpriced and wont sell, however the interior quality is vastly superior to Stafford which sorry to say looks cheap for a dear boat

 

The boats on carls link to The Warwickshire Fly Boat are good value and Aerial is especially good value at £35k

 

The 60ft tug ex Joey on Apollo Duck has sold quickly for £28k and was a great price Keith Ball usually comes up with some excellent classic narrowboats at sensible prices

 

If you had a budget of £90k you could come up with a nicer ex working boat modern conversion than Stafford and it would be worth what it cost to build

 

Charles

[Chertsey]

Ho hum. Am I the only one who finds all the moaning and handwringing about 'offensive' comments far more offensive than the comments themselves?

 

I only nipped back because I heard you were talking about the love of my life. Now, if I had Gazelle (sigh...) it certainly does need a good paint job, but then I part company with Carl - I think it'd look better for a bit of wear. And nothing too shiny to distract from those lines...

 

(re-dons flouncing petticoat and disappears for another two months)

[sarahavfc]

Ineresting ly there is another £150k boat on Harral's brokerage site.

Nice replica Northwich.

Steelwork is by Steve Priest at Brinklow (one of the elite), nice Gardner engine but I've not heard of the fitter out (Gary Shephard) before.

Look under trads over £60k. It's called Theophilus.

 

That's pretty close to my perfect boat.

I wonder what it will eventually fetch............

 

I brought Vienna from Garry who owns and fitted out Theophilus. Theophilus is a lovely boat, with a proper riveted back cabin & engine room. The fit-out is of a high standard too. I didn’t go in the back cabin but I’m almost sure the image has been mirrored, if you look at the image of the rear of the exterior it looks to me as if the chimney collar is on the correct side.

[carlt]

Ho hum. Am I the only one who finds all the moaning and handwringing about 'offensive' comments far more offensive than the comments themselves?

 

I only nipped back because I heard you were talking about the love of my life. Now, if I had Gazelle (sigh...) it certainly does need a good paint job, but then I part company with Carl - I think it'd look better for a bit of wear. And nothing too shiny to distract from those lines...

 

(re-dons flouncing petticoat and disappears for another two months)

I agre with you about the bit of wear, which is why I couldn't own it.

 

I had a concours, show winning Humber Super snipe, once, and felt guilty every time I took it out, in the rain. When you have something of that quality you get sneered at, if you let a single speck of dust land on it.

 

I swapped it for a Land rover and was happy, again.

[mrsmelly]

I do wonder where how brokers or owners come up with these unrealistic prices. In my opinion this boat is worth between £60k and £75k. Time will prove the broker or me right on that. I cant see it appealing to the purists who would not want a bus windowed boat. Its also needs finishing particularly the back cabin and engine room. Nice external paint work though

 

 

 

http://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=105864

 

Quite so !!

Beginning of story " Buses have windows Boats have portholes " Here endeth the lesson

Edited February 20, 2009 by mrsmelly

[Hairy-Neil]

I don't 'do' narrow boats any more but I'm tempted

 

http://www.apolloduck.com/image.phtml?id=102637ℑ=1

 

 

They'll never sell it. The paintwork is crap and the portholes are dreadful.

 

 

I brought Vienna from Garry who owns and fitted out Theophilus. Theophilus is a lovely boat, with a proper riveted back cabin & engine room. The fit-out is of a high standard too. I didn’t go in the back cabin but I’m almost sure the image has been mirrored, if you look at the image of the rear of the exterior it looks to me as if the chimney collar is on the correct side.

 

And the port hole would be inside the bed cupboard.

[david and julie]

Ho hum. Am I the only one who finds all the moaning and handwringing about 'offensive' comments far more offensive than the comments themselves?

Neither myself or Hairy-Neil have moaned, all we have both done is stand our corner - like you have to do on here - unless you enjoy being trampled on. The only thing that suprised me was, to my knowledge, we have never had so much as a cross word before.

 

As fas as I'm concerned it was a minor spat and is now over.

[lbgirl]

I believe spec savers are still doing 2 for 1.

 

Its nothing to do with taste, your lack of it, or the colour scheme, the boat appears to me to have several scrapes, rust marks and an almost matt paint finish, it also looks like it needs blacking, in reality it may not be that bad in the flesh and if thats the case they need to do something about the way the broker has presented it.

 

The photo's are very poor and there are no internal shots at all, there is also no mechanical description or mention of equipment - the ad is letting the boat down.

 

If the sellers are prepared to repaint it then they should say so in the ad, its a changing market and their going to need all the help they can get to sell that.

 

Are you an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get off your GPR cruiser, that's if you have been on the water!!!!!! I have personally put at least 5 coats of blacking on this boat and I know it inside out, I can guarantee that it is not Matt finish it is a very very shiny paint job.... Is it just jealously that you can not afford this boat....or do you know nothing about a real Josher boat???...get a life.......stupid boy......a boat is for life not just for loosers.........

[david and julie]

Are you an idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! get off your GPR cruiser, that's if you have been on the water!!!!!! I have personally put at least 5 coats of blacking on this boat and I know it inside out, I can guarantee that it is not Matt finish it is a very very shiny paint job.... Is it just jealously that you can not afford this boat....or do you know nothing about a real Josher boat???...get a life.......stupid boy......a boat is for life not just for loosers.........

I'll take your points in order.

 

No I'm not an idiot - do you offer lessons?

A GPR cruiser is a new one on me, what is it?

No, I personally haven't been on water - in it - but not on it.

Its a long time since the boat I was talking about had 5 coats of blacking.

The boat I was talking about doesn't appear to have a very good paint finish.

I'm not jealous - I could afford any of the boats mentioned on this thread - without borrowing.

Correct, I don't know nothing about Joshers.

I have a life.

I am not stupid.

 

And you think I'm a looser?

[sociable_hermit]

Why don't you go back and edit your original post so it's clear which fecking boat you're on about, rather than moaning at people who, quite understandably, are getting the wrong end of the stick.

 

At the moment all you're doing is making Phylis sound witty and intelligent, which isn't something I ever thought I'd have to type. At least when she goes off on one, everybody knows exactly what she's on about.

[david and julie]

Why don't you go back and edit your original post so it's clear which fecking boat you're on about, rather than moaning at people who, quite understandably, are getting the wrong end of the stick.

 

At the moment all you're doing is making Phylis sound witty and intelligent, which isn't something I ever thought I'd have to type. At least when she goes off on one, everybody knows exactly what she's on about.

Why should I edit my post, it was only a replying to someone else and that was obvious to anybody.

 

 

I haven't moaned about anything either, what exactly would you say to an apparent new member that calls you an idiot, stupid and tells you to get a life on their first post, when its clear they haven't bothered to read the thread?

[giveitsomeoil]

I'll take your points in order.

 

No I'm not an idiot - do you offer lessons?

A GPR cruiser is a new one on me, what is it?

No, I personally haven't been on water - in it - but not on it.

Its a long time since the boat I was talking about had 5 coats of blacking.

The boat I was talking about doesn't appear to have a very good paint finish.

I'm not jealous - I could afford any of the boats mentioned on this thread - without borrowing.

Correct, I don't know nothing about Joshers.

I have a life.

I am not stupid.

 

And you think I'm a looser?

 

haha

yes i do offer lessons however i doubt u could afford them,

yes a GPR cruiser is a new one on me however i can well imagine what is being referred to, i go back to point 1!

fair comment

WRONG. it was only two weeks since the final coat was applied to stafford.

Obviously you have seen it first hand and have a better insight than myself who was on said boat today!

Bully for you!

Correct

??

just sad

well i am a looser off mooring pins

 

 

MORE SPEED LESS HASTE

[Chris J W]

haha

yes i do offer lessons however i doubt u could afford them,

yes a GPR cruiser is a new one on me however i can well imagine what is being referred to, i go back to point 1!

fair comment

WRONG. it was only two weeks since the final coat was applied to stafford.

Obviously you have seen it first hand and have a better insight than myself who was on said boat today!

Bully for you!

Correct

??

just sad

well i am a looser off mooring pins

 

Which is all well and good - But 'David And Julie' weren't talking about Stafford.

 

MORE SPEED LESS HASTE

 

Advice for yourself, perhaps, when re-reading the thread?

[bargeeboy]

This boat doesnt in my opinion command the price. the restoration is flawed, the styling of the fore end cants looks like a Tyler boat! Theres not much original boat left there in reality. The combination of rectangular and round alloy windows rather enhances the image to be that of an early 1970's conversion. I cannot understand why "rebuild" an historic craft in such a way, very odd route to go. definatly another "Dover".

 

 

Well time for the facts

 

Stafford was converted late sixties/early seventies

Spent its days at Tardebigge.

Then 15 years at Charity sine I bought it in 1991

Bottom and footings were naff.

So what to do about Stafford was the question 2 years ago.

Let Steve Prient do the hull as he has on my previous boats

Kangaroo, Clover, Linda (last ten years) Or as my earlier re-builds Greyhound and Australia

Then spend the next ten years pumping it out whilst 'waiting for orders'.

Or send it to the factory for a rebuilt and to show the staff a 'proper' boat.

 

The factory won and the boat was renovated complete with keelson so that the 'conversion can be cut off when the time is right to de-convert her.

The new base plate is in 12 mm as are the sides.

We also made patterns for our replica 'josher' style boats which are now available.

The project for which I have no qualms about was to restore the boat to a standard approved of by Steve Priest.

AND to have an exhibition of modern boat fitting showing the quality of Narrowcraft 's work

The rear cabin is in solid iroko and is too good to grain so it is being varnished.

The Kromhout 3LW is one of a pair rebuilt by Martin hence its is the 'wrong' way round.

Anybody got a brass Kromhout badge?

 

This boat has spent more of its life as a converted boa than in working trim either as a butty or as a motor.

 

£150k, well in a previous thread I wrote about the cost of the project and whilst bearing in mind that if it was an unconverted motor in sound (not re-built) condition it would command high 60k. a new 70' 'modern boat' built by Narrowcraft is around 90k plus. So there you have it!

 

Everything is for sale and it is only worth what somebody is prepared to pay.

 

 

Oh and the front cants were as fitted during its converted life and as they were sound they were kept. I completely disagree with your 'not much of the real boat' comment.. The boat was built in 1898 originally (as a butty) and all the good bits were kept including some classic rivetted patches and all knees and most of the swim, counter and fore end.

 

The project was not to create a museum piece ( I have plenty of them ) but to make a fine example of old and new that can be used both with pride and comfort on todays canal system.

 

Meanwhile I might even go the the Port with it as a 'support' vessel.

[richardf]

On the duck is ex steamer Victory, £55k, worn out, dated interior

 

Charles

 

On what basis are you declaring it worn out? Surely having a 'dated interior' is part of the joy of owning a 100 year old boat. I don't think oak faced ply was available when it was refitted a few years ago

[Dominic M]

The price it took to construct or perceived cache value rarely equate with what a buyer is prepared to pay. In this case in my opinion its well over priced in the same way as other recent examples

 

Gazelle, new seen pictures of the inside but if its in as bad condition as the outside then its not worth more than £60k

That hobbit interior inspired styled butty

That new built motorised butty, that was a real shocker inside and out

Dover, superb spec and build quality, proabaly cost more than its original asking price, sold for much less I understand and is worth its money

Rocket, SM Hudson shell featured in magazine, beautiful boat now for sale at more realistic price and getting nearer its value

Jazz, that gas less Warble boat that is 10 years old but recently appeared in various brokers site, too expensive but coming down in price some way to go yet

 

Having looked at some of the other posters links

 

On the duck is ex steamer Victory, £55k, worn out, dated interior, needs repaint and £15k spending, therefore not good value at that price

Theopolis has more going for it, but externally looks a bit bland and is in need of a decent colour scheme, once again overpriced and wont sell, however the interior quality is vastly superior to Stafford which sorry to say looks cheap for a dear boat

 

The boats on carls link to The Warwickshire Fly Boat are good value and Aerial is especially good value at £35k

 

The 60ft tug ex Joey on Apollo Duck has sold quickly for £28k and was a great price Keith Ball usually comes up with some excellent classic narrowboats at sensible prices

 

If you had a budget of £90k you could come up with a nicer ex working boat modern conversion than Stafford and it would be worth what it cost to build

 

Charles

I wish I had your talent for valuing boats without even going to visit them first. Obviously a lot of time, attention, skill and careful, well-considered thought goes into arriving at the figures you provide. Do you carry out full surveys without actually being at the boat as well?

[starman]

I wish I had your talent for valuing boats without even going to visit them first. Obviously a lot of time, attention, skill and careful, well-considered thought goes into arriving at the figures you provide. Do you carry out full surveys without actually being at the boat as well?

 

To be fair, I think his general point is reasonable. In most markets (cars, houses, boats, antiques) costs of restoration are rarely recovered in selling price because perfectionism and passion drive the renovator more than the pounds and pence. Only in a fast rising bubble type market or when something's truly rare are sellers likely get back the cost of their work.

Also the more esoteric and away from mainstream tastes something is, the less it's likely to recover its build price. Exotic cars plunge in value once the next exotic hits the headlines; one-off house designs are hard to shift; ditto (I'm assuming) in boats. On the other hand, I saw that beautiful but proven and classic Braidbar's 2008 Crick show boat sold secondhand within a couple of weeks recently seemingly at well over £100k.

Edited February 21, 2009 by starman