Report Unlicensed Boats!

[Tomska]

I have serious objections to the invasion of privacy this snitch-site represents.

 

I have every intention of disrupting it as much as I possibly can.

 

Sounds like a plan.

[billh]

Sorry for adjusting the topic slightly...

I wondered about other folks recent experiences with BW licensing.

This year I have responsibility for licensing 3 different boats, the renewals fell due in February, June and September. The one in February , I received no reminder - when contacted BW said they were changing the license class (without consulting me) but after some discussion we finished up paying the same as we expected to , though it is not clear how that was derived.

The June one , I received no reminder, I phoned and queried this and was told it was Royal Mail's fault as it was sent in May, they would send a duplicate (which significantly , arrived next day) but the BW person said I would not get the prompt payment discount as it wasn't BWs fault. My answer to that is that I have not renewed the license for this boat and will not be using it for the time being- it is not moored on the canal ( and not logged by the BW patrol officer on monthly checks). I expect it appears on the defaulters' list though.

The September license- the reminder arrived in good time - letter addressed to me with name of boat and reg. number correct, accompanying the letter is the actual renewal document with all boat and licensee's details printed out- sadly this was for a different boat and licensee in another part of the country. The only things common were the renewal date and the owners initials! Phoned BW again, explaining the situation. Reply was , " oh not again, which boat does it refer to?, please destroy the incorrect details" The correct details arrived next day- but lots of people around the place must have personal information bandied about by a very careless BW licensing system (not sure it is a system). What does the DPA say about that?

From my own experience it seems BW licensing is an utter shambles, a view confirmed recently by a BW employee.

I should mention that 2 of the boats in question have been licensed with BW for 30 years- they have had plenty of dosh in that time- enough to pay for a decent system - licensing system that is, not canal system( which is another issue).

With each license reminder ( if we actually get one) we are invited to "renew on line- it's quicker & more convenient!" Oh Yes? - they'll take the DeFRA grant shortfall off me using that route , given half a chance.

Any comments out there?

Bill

[carlt]

Hi Bill

This thread would probably be more appropriate:

 

Licence incompetence thread.

 

Edited to say: Welcome to the forum, btw.

Edited October 20, 2008 by carlt

[mayalld]

The plain language is.

 

I have strong objections to this invasion of privacy and if, in some small way, I can disrupt it, then I will.

 

I believe that is simple enough language for most folk but I can make it available in crayon, if that would help.

 

Please do.

 

Does that mean that you will tell deliberate lies?

[carlt]

Please do.

 

Does that mean that you will tell deliberate lies?

I'm sorry Dave but I don't see any point in my satisfying your need to reinterpret my words.

 

I believe I am right in disrupting a system that invades people's privacy and panders to the lowest form of interference in somebody's life.

 

You interpret that however you choose but I'm not doing your dirty work for you.

[mayalld]

I'm sorry Dave but I don't see any point in my satisfying your need to reinterpret my words.

 

I believe I am right in disrupting a system that invades people's privacy and panders to the lowest form of interference in somebody's life.

 

You interpret that however you choose but I'm not doing your dirty work for you.

 

It needed only a one word answer!

 

It is clear that you intend to tell lies to BW, but that because you believe that you are doing so for some greater good, you can pretend that they are not lies.

 

You may fool yourself by dressing it up that way, but it doesn't make your actions any less wrong.

[carlt]

It needed only a one word answer!

 

It is clear that you intend to tell lies to BW, but that because you believe that you are doing so for some greater good, you can pretend that they are not lies.

 

You may fool yourself by dressing it up that way, but it doesn't make your actions any less wrong.

I'm not dressing it up in any way. I believe that using the public for unpaid enforcement is far worse than disrupting such a system.

 

I believe my actions are right, the Snitch-line is wrong.

 

You are welcome to your opinion but it is no more valid than mine.

[mayalld]

I'm not dressing it up in any way. I believe that using the public for unpaid enforcement is far worse than disrupting such a system.

 

I believe my actions are right, the Snitch-line is wrong.

 

You are welcome to your opinion but it is no more valid than mine.

 

If you don't believe that it is right, don't participate.

 

Just don't presume to prevent others from participating by attempts to disrupt the system.

[tidal]

I'm with Carl on this one

 

The system is divisive and can be disrupted as a matter of principle

[magpie patrick]

I largely agree with you Carl although with a caveat that I'll enlarge on shortly. We've seen other cases on here where someone has taken it upon themselves (not members of this forum) to act as the local enforcement officer and create a lot of problems, sometimes (often) through ignorance of what the rules actually are. That said, a lot of people seem to like to make BW's life difficult by not displaying a licence or index number: I'm not referring to open wooden boats (although my parents had a car top dinghy on which we still managed to dispaly the index number!) but people who seem loathe to sully their craft's appearance with a licence disk or a number.

 

That said, when someone has a genuine grievance againts another boater, the starting point for getting somewhere is that the other boater may be unlicensed etc. Where a boat is licensed it is easy enough to ring BW and give a licence number and state that your windows were broken/rudder bent whatever and BW will at least contact the other boater and will, if it comes to it, give you the contact details.

 

My grievance, perhaps rather petty, was with a 60 odd foot boat that pulled out in front of me (literally, I had to go in reverse) effed and blinded as I was too close, pinched Tyrley Locks off me and left all the top gates open to maximise inconvenience. I rang BW as this boat has no licence, no index number and no name. I texted a picture. before too long the wardens were out looking for him.

 

However I didn't report the unlicensed fibreglass boat I met a few days later near stourport. In conversation with the owner, he'd just paid £900 for the boat and was sailing it to a nearby yard where she would be docked for a year while he refitted her. He may not have been genuine (I think he was) but he couldn't have been more polite or more appreciative of my assistance. He had only one windlass, and that was hand made, and one of those lockmaster maps as a guide.

 

I don't agree with this website, but there has to be a mechanism where the public can report things.

[carlt]

If you don't believe that it is right, don't participate.

 

Just don't presume to prevent others from participating by attempts to disrupt the system.

Yeah what about those goddam suffragettes? Silly women, just trying to spoil it for everyone else.

 

I will attempt to disrupt any system that I believe is morally bankrupt. Wouldn't you do the same, or would you just toe the line?

[churchward]

I don't see that there is such a huge issue with BWs website for checking unlicensed boats as (as I have said before) it could be useful to prevent reporting a licensed boat and the unnecessary upset that might cause.

 

However, I also see no problem with Carl holding the opinion he clearly does or that since he does feel strongly about it making some kind of protest. We live in a free country and any law or action that is or perceived to be unjust can and should be challenged via peaceful means by those that believe it to be so.

Edited October 20, 2008 by churchward

[GUMPY]

I believe I am right in disrupting a system that invades people's privacy and panders to the lowest form of interference in somebody's life.

 

Whilst your actions may well be morally correct there is a cost, every false report could be investigated by BW. The moneys spent doing this could be better spent elsewhere and it will also tie up the Patrol Officiers looking for non existant boats and not doing the job that they are paid to do..

 

 

Personally I think that if the system stops people bothering BW when they see a boat that is licenced but not displaying then it is a good thing.

 

J

[carlt]

Whilst your actions may well be morally correct there is a cost, every false report could be investigated by BW. The moneys spent doing this could be better spent elsewhere and it will also tie up the Patrol Officiers looking for non existant boats and not doing the job that they are paid to do..

You're absolutely right and the best forms of protest are invariably the ones that cost money.

 

Sad, but true.

[magnetman]

So the person contracted to do a job now has to act as an unpaid enforcement officer?

 

Maybe we should rustle up a posse.

 

 

what?

[carlt]

 

what?

Sorry, I misread your post. I thought you were suggesting that the crane operator should tell BW when he's launching a boat.

[Jason Wilson and Family]

Wouldn't you do the same, or would you just toe the line?

 

Do you even have to ask?

 

Dave, you're making it abundently clear what sort of person you are but I'll give you benefit of doubt for a little while longer.

 

If you had been a black man in the US would you have sold out Martin Luther King because he wasn't following the rules?

If you had been a german during WWII would you have thrown bricks through Jewish shop windows because that's what you were told to do?

 

You seem to give no thought to whether what the rulemakers are doing is immoral, or just, you just say "That's the rules" and get on with it.

 

What carl is doing is known as civil disobedience and is perfectly called for in this situation.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Jason Wilson and Family

[Smelly]

and to think I got told off for DoS ideas on another thread. Sheesh...

 

Carl, where are you getting your numbers from? I'd be interested in helping out.

 

It's a shame that BW see fit to turn to the interfering busybodies on to anything, and fear that the snitch culture this policy encourages will legitimise a habit that, within the society I've grown up in, is generally sneered at. However it's even more of a shame that there are people out there who think that this is a good idea.

 

I'm just glad half the harbourmasters in Brum don't know how to use a PC or they'd do our local enforcement officer out of a job and he's a nice chap.

 

I know it's been said already that this system has no objective purpose, as BW have a licensing database and hence know who has, and who hasn't got a licence. All this is going to achieve is to give the aforementioned busybodies the impression that they're justified.

[magnetman]

Sorry, I misread your post. I thought you were suggesting that the crane operator should tell BW when he's launching a boat.

 

some people might think that someone who is making profits running a business directly connected to the canal system, and would not be able to make said profits in the absence of a working canal system, does in theory have some sort of responsibility to ensure that their profits are not gained by encouraging an activity which has a negative effect on overall funding of said canal system. some of those some people might think that license evasion has a negative effect on funding.

 

I wouldn't see this as being an unpaid enforcement officer. I guess that is open to interpretation.

[alan_fincher]

Whilst your actions may well be morally correct there is a cost, every false report could be investigated by BW. The moneys spent doing this could be better spent elsewhere and it will also tie up the Patrol Officiers looking for non existant boats and not doing the job that they are paid to do..

 

 

Personally I think that if the system stops people bothering BW when they see a boat that is licenced but not displaying then it is a good thing.

 

J

And there is of course the possibility that the sytem is "designed" so as none of the data that has been keyed in actually gets saved to disk when you hit the submit button.

 

It would certainly involve the least effort on BW's part.

[David Schweizer]

Yeah what about those goddam suffragettes? Silly women, just trying to spoil it for everyone else.

Carl there is no comparison between the historic fight to secure Voting Rights fo Women, and frustrating BW's faulted scheme to report alledged licence evaders, and if you think there is you have a very distorted understanding of political history.

I will attempt to disrupt any system that I believe is morally bankrupt. Wouldn't you do the same, or would you just toe the line?

Neither Carl. I wil not report any unlicenced boats, nor will waste either my time or BW's time making ficticous reports , If we all just ignored the sheme it will fail by default.

[carlt]

My understanding of political history is fine, David.

 

I'm not about to throw myself under a race horse, so the level of the protest will match the level of the injustice.

 

The question wasn't directed at you, David, but Dave Mayall, who believes one should do nothing, despite feeling strongly that something is wrong.

 

Curtain twitchers won't ignore the snitch-site so only positive reports will, in BW's eyes, make it a success.

[sueb]

Yes, they know which boats do and do not have licences, but do they know whether the boats without licences are on their waters?

Or even who the owners are?

Sue

[churchward]

And there is of course the possibility that the sytem is "designed" so as none of the data that has been keyed in actually gets saved to disk when you hit the submit button.

 

No but I understand that now it ignores any entry from Carl's IP address!

Edited October 20, 2008 by churchward

[carlt]

Or even who the owners are?

Sue

Yes they do. Most patrol officers are pretty good at their job. The system falls down when the office staff get involved.