Speedwheel & Gearshift

[Liam]

Out of curiousity, with a view to actually making the change...

 

How would one go about converting a Perkins D3 with a PRM 260 gearbox in its own engine room, with the usual single lever morse control, to having the traditional speed wheel and gear shift (push/pull).

 

Ta

[MoominPapa]

Out of curiousity, with a view to actually making the change...

 

How would one go about converting a Perkins D3 with a PRM 260 gearbox in its own engine room, with the usual single lever morse control, to having the traditional speed wheel and gear shift (push/pull).

 

Ta

Go to shed and collect large quanties of useful junk, obtain an angle-grinder and an arc-welder. Cut up useful junk and weld it together to make linkages. Paint moving bits of linkages red and the rest green.

 

Seriously, every speedwheel setup I have seen looks like it was made this way. Melaleuca's incorporates a hand-drill gear to take the drive through 90 degrees. The one on Warrior makes good use of a car scissor-jack. I don't think there's a more standard approach, you just need something to pull the throttle lever and something to move the gear lever. With a Hydraulic box, I'd probably keep the morse cable and attach that to the push-pull gear shift, with a manual box that needs some force, a big lever is needed.

 

MP.

[carlt]

Tony Redshaw does a rather sexy looking wormgear thingy, for the speed wheel.

[wrigglefingers]

Tony Redshaw does a rather sexy looking wormgear thingy, for the speed wheel.

 

Yup, I seen one of they things and they look good - I suspect Cobbett will have one fitted. Only can someone show me how to move my new boat if she does because up to now all I've done is sagely nod my head to the suggestion! Clueless doesn't cover it, but I can just about drive a car and ride a bike - any correlation?

[ditchcrawler]

Go to shed and collect large quanties of useful junk, obtain an angle-grinder and an arc-welder. Cut up useful junk and weld it together to make linkages. Paint moving bits of linkages red and the rest green.

 

Seriously, every speedwheel setup I have seen looks like it was made this way. Melaleuca's incorporates a hand-drill gear to take the drive through 90 degrees. The one on Warrior makes good use of a car scissor-jack. I don't think there's a more standard approach, you just need something to pull the throttle lever and something to move the gear lever. With a Hydraulic box, I'd probably keep the morse cable and attach that to the push-pull gear shift, with a manual box that needs some force, a big lever is needed.

 

MP.

I used the thread from a cheap "workmate" vice to pull a cable to operate the throttle, nice parallel thread. For the gear change I used a rod connected to a pivoting leaver on the ceiling. Also connected to the leaver is a Morse cable that connects to the gear change. The leaver gives the right length of travel to the gear handle.

[sueb]

Yup, I seen one of they things and they look good - I suspect Cobbett will have one fitted. Only can someone show me how to move my new boat if she does because up to now all I've done is sagely nod my head to the suggestion! Clueless doesn't cover it, but I can just about drive a car and ride a bike - any correlation?

Yes if you can do both at the same time

Sue

[ditchcrawler]

Tony Redshaw does a rather sexy looking wormgear thingy, for the speed wheel.

Sexy price as well

[tidal]

OK

I'll ask

 

Why would you want to?

[alan_fincher]

Yup, I seen one of they things and they look good - I suspect Cobbett will have one fitted. Only can someone show me how to move my new boat if she does because up to now all I've done is sagely nod my head to the suggestion! Clueless doesn't cover it, but I can just about drive a car and ride a bike - any correlation?

Well they are very "traditional" in the right boat.

 

But they do take a bit of the idiot-proofing out of boating.

 

With a Morse type control you have to work fairly hard at making a sudden forwards to reverse (or vice versa) shift without at least letting engine revs die a bit in between.

 

"Traditional" controls allows you to try slamming from one gear to the other, whilst revving flat out, (unless some kind of anti-idiot additions are made).

 

I must admit mechanical gear wheels or "push-pulls" seem fine for a mechanically shifting gearbox, but a bit of an odd thing to add to a modern hydraulic box.

[Proper Job]

Well they are very "traditional" in the right boat.

 

But they do take a bit of the idiot-proofing out of boating.

 

With a Morse type control you have to work fairly hard at making a sudden forwards to reverse (or vice versa) shift without at least letting engine revs die a bit in between.

 

"Traditional" controls allows you to try slamming from one gear to the other, whilst revving flat out, (unless some kind of anti-idiot additions are made).

 

I must admit mechanical gear wheels or "push-pulls" seem fine for a mechanically shifting gearbox, but a bit of an odd thing to add to a modern hydraulic box.

Personally, I thnk lever gear change and speed wheel are needed for ye olde engines. The time that it takes to 'wind it down', followed by swapping hands to the gear push/pull gives the engine time to slow down to tick over ready for the gear change.

 

If it had a single lever morse type unit and one smooth movement from fwd to astern, I'm not sure how long the gearbox/crankshaft/propshaft would last. You've got to let the engine slow down!

 

Ye olde JP has got the 'traditional' mechanism robbed from a hand drill, lots of bend bits of rod and a few 90 deg' angle cams. You do need to keep a few spare roll pins handy, as they have a habit of working their way out

Edited October 3, 2008 by Proper Job

[dove]

Out of curiousity, with a view to actually making the change...

 

How would one go about converting a Perkins D3 with a PRM 260 gearbox in its own engine room, with the usual single lever morse control, to having the traditional speed wheel and gear shift (push/pull).

 

Ta

 

This is the arrangement I did on Achilles using 1/2" brass round and clevis mountings . the gearbox is a PRM500.

 

 

 

Hope you can see the pic, not that good at this.

 

Any way Achilles is at Fradley if want to have a look

 

Andrew

 

Edit .. found if you click on pichure you get bigger pic, in't that clever

Edited October 3, 2008 by dove

[Chertsey]

OK

I'll ask

 

Why would you want to?

 

Because it looks and feels right.

And also for all the reasons Proper Job says.

I'd add that coming from a boat with morse controls to one with a speedwheel and a fairly brutal push/pull gear change, I was rather nervous about how I would cope with it, but actually it was better immediately. It's more instinctive, somehow, for one. The speedwheel gives much more subtle control of the throttle than I could ever achieve with the morse lever. I like being able to control the engine speed and gear change independently. I guess that with a slow revving engine and a brutal 1:1 box, getting the revs down before changing gear isn't so vital, and sometimes it's useful not to (although I have been told off for this and as there probably aren't any more parts for the gearbox lying around perhaps I should stop doing it?)

So that's the why. As for the how... whew!

[Proper Job]

I guess that with a slow revving engine and a brutal 1:1 box, getting the revs down before changing gear isn't so vital, and sometimes it's useful not to (although I have been told off for this and as there probably aren't any more parts for the gearbox lying around perhaps I should stop doing it?)

Oh dear . Not letting the rev's drop off before changing gear. Send her to the Tower!

 

Still.... Such a crime is only matched by using someone else's ID to post about alternators

 

(changes wooden spoon to powered whisk to allow better stirring capacity and then sits back to see if he can see the mushroom cloud rising over the Fens)

[tidal]

Fair enough, I have to admit to having used both systems but always felt in need of a third arm when using the traditional system.

And yes, whatever system used I always (except in dire emergencies) let the revs drop before gear changes.

 

Many years ago, there was a Morse type system with a "T" head which had a thumb switch which controlled an interlock on the lever which you had to press in when going from ahead to astern. It taught me to pause...

 

I do agree about the accuracy of motor speed control though

 

Thanks for the answers

[MoominPapa]

.... It's more instinctive, somehow, for one.

Hmm, not sure about that. The speed-wheel on Meleleuca is clockwise to slow down, anticlockwise to speed up. These days I only get it wrong in cases of dire emergency.

 

MP.

[Chris-B]

Out of curiousity, with a view to actually making the change...

 

How would one go about converting a Perkins D3 with a PRM 260 gearbox in its own engine room, with the usual single lever morse control, to having the traditional speed wheel and gear shift (push/pull).

 

Ta

 

 

Liam , would you like me to photo the setup in Baldock for you ?

D3.152 Gearwheel and click ratchet throttle

... oh and btw I have a "Spare" very nice brand new Tony Redshaw Brass Speed wheel quadrant setup thingy I might be flogging

Give me a ring if interested

Chris

[Liam]

Hi Chris,

 

Pictures would be good - thanks

[Chris-B]

Hi Chris,

 

Pictures would be good - thanks

 

K Will photo over vweekend

[Chertsey]

Hmm, not sure about that. The speed-wheel on Meleleuca is clockwise to slow down, anticlockwise to speed up. These days I only get it wrong in cases of dire emergency.

 

MP.

 

Same on W. Anti clockwise to open up, clockwise to shut down, like a tap. Or is that just feminine instinct?

[Liam]

The ones I've driven, a modern tug, and a Large Northwich, and a couple of others, are both clockwise to speed up, anti clockwise to slow down

[churchward]

The ones I've driven, a modern tug, and a Large Northwich, and a couple of others, are both clockwise to speed up, anti clockwise to slow down

 

As I recall that is the way I have experienced speedwheel and gearshift. Either way I quite like it for boats with classic style low rpm engines and it does give quite good precise control over engine rpm. The only thing I have noticed both for myself and others using it is that when manoeuvring it is a slower process to reduce revs change gear and increase revs again. I guess though it just means you need to plan ahead and anticipate more. Of course it could just be a matter of practice.

 

You could fit a speedwheel to a modern engine set-up but it doesn't seem as right on that kind of motor. I have a modern diesel on mine and I think I would rather stick to a Morse control in that situation.

[John Orentas]

Hi Liam.

 

I did exactly what you have in mind, the speed mechanism was a bit of a contraption using sheet brass cams and levers.. I managed to make the wheel do a full turn tick-over to full power, a friction device stopped it all spinning back.. The gear mechanism is easier except you need a 3 point detent system.

 

I did it all initially using rods and rod-ends to the engine but it was all a bit rattly with a soft mounted engine, converted it to use standard though short cables.

 

I have been trying without success to find some photo's.

 

P.S. You can buy plastic coated wheels that look about right 'Rencol' I think.

[SteveE]

Liam , would you like me to photo the setup in Baldock for you ?

D3.152 Gearwheel and click ratchet throttle

... oh and btw I have a "Spare" very nice brand new Tony Redshaw Brass Speed wheel quadrant setup thingy I might be flogging

Give me a ring if interested

Chris

 

If Liam doesn't want it you could try selling it to me

SteveE

[MoominPapa]

Same on W. Anti clockwise to open up, clockwise to shut down, like a tap. Or is that just feminine instinct?

 

Like a tap, and unlike a volume control. I suppose the youngsters won't have a problem, since rotary volume controls seem to be dying out.

[Chertsey]

Like a tap, and unlike a volume control. I suppose the youngsters won't have a problem, since rotary volume controls seem to be dying out.

Will they just be tapping it and wondering why nothing happens?

 

The ones I've driven, a modern tug, and a Large Northwich, and a couple of others, are both clockwise to speed up, anti clockwise to slow down

I wonder whether I could get used to that... Anyone got a Large Northwich I could try?