Careless Driver Costs CRT £1,000,000

[cuthound]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyee5ydln5wo

 

Mind you £1,000,000 would buy a lot of CCTV cameras...

Edited June 12 by cuthound
Clarification

[Graham Davis]

Check the number of 0's you've quoted!
There appears to be too many.

[booke23]

2 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Check the number of 0's you've quoted!
There appears to be too many.

 

I thought that too, but the article goes onto say the CRT spends £1m per annum on bridges damaged by vehicles.

[Graham Davis]

Agreed, but the ONE careless driver that is the subject of the article cost them £100,000

[Ronaldo47]

So it should be either

 

"Careless driver costs CRT £100,000" (referring to the specific incident), or

 

 "Careless drivers cost CRT £1,000,000" ( referring to the total annual cost of all such incidents). 

Edited June 12 by Ronaldo47

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Did anyone notice the article was written by Caroline Lowbridge?

..amused me 

[steve hayes]

£100K for that repair seems way over the top, the stonework was all reclaimed, so it was predominantly labour costs.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, steve hayes said:

£100K for that repair seems way over the top, the stonework was all reclaimed, so it was predominantly labour costs.

 

Totally agree, someone is having CRT over a treat.

 

From the article:

 

"The charity spent four weeks recovering bricks and rebuilding the bridge in Sinfin Lane."

 

Lets imagine it took an incredibly generous four blokes four weeks to do this repair and they are on, say, £50 an hour each. 

 

£50 x 8 hours a day x four blokes x four weeks = £6,400. 

 

Where did the other £93, 600 go? 

 

 

(In reality I reckon one good brickie with a lad would have done that easily in a week.) 

 

[steve hayes]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Totally agree, someone is having CRT over a treat.

 

From the article:

 

"The charity spent four weeks recovering bricks and rebuilding the bridge in Sinfin Lane."

 

Lets imagine it took an incredibly generous four blokes four weeks to do this repair and they are on, say, £50 an hour each. 

 

£50 x 8 hours a day x four blokes x four weeks = £6,400. 

 

Where did the other £93, 600 go? 

 

 

Exactly, but sorry you maths is wrong.

£50 x 8 = £400

£400 x 4 = £1,600

£1,600 x 5days x 4weeks = £32,000

 

but still where has the £68,000 gone ?

[Mike Todd]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Totally agree, someone is having CRT over a treat.

 

From the article:

 

"The charity spent four weeks recovering bricks and rebuilding the bridge in Sinfin Lane."

 

Lets imagine it took an incredibly generous four blokes four weeks to do this repair and they are on, say, £50 an hour each. 

 

£50 x 8 hours a day x four blokes x four weeks = £6,400. 

 

Where did the other £93, 600 go? 

 

 

I cannot help to get it to the supposed total but I note that you have omitted:

 

* overheads (at least 1.25 on basic pay rate)

* equipment (well, toilets at least)

* transport (none of the staff live on the canal, so useful hours about 5 a day)

* project planning

* planning permission esp listed building consent - don't know if it applies here but it does to most of the bridges that get knocked into)

* highway closure

 

On the other hand, it was only the parapet/curtain wall not part of the load bearing structure.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, steve hayes said:

Exactly, but sorry you maths is wrong.

£50 x 8 = £400

£400 x 4 = £1,600

£1,600 x 5days x 4weeks = £32,000

 

but still where has the £68,000 gone ?

 

You're right, I missed out the "five days in a week" multiplier!

 

I still reckon you could just about build a small house for £100k labour, never mind fixing a small bit of wall. 

 

 

[steve hayes]

Just now, MtB said:

 

You're right, I missed out the "five days in a week" multiplier!

 

I still reckon you could just about build a small house for £100k labour, never mind fixing a small bit of wall. 

 

 

Absolutely, even allowing for the thinks Mike mentioned is still way over the top

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I cannot help to get it to the supposed total but I note that you have omitted:

 

* overheads (at least 1.25 on basic pay rate)

* equipment (well, toilets at least)

* transport (none of the staff live on the canal, so useful hours about 5 a day)

* project planning

* planning permission esp listed building consent - don't know if it applies here but it does to most of the bridges that get knocked into)

* highway closure

 

On the other hand, it was only the parapet/curtain wall not part of the load bearing structure.

 

 

* overheads (at least 1.25 on basic pay rate)

Disallowed. My £50 an hour labour rate includes all overheads. For a PAYE bod its half that rate.

 

* equipment (well, toilets at least)

Ok add in £500 a week bog hire

 

* transport (none of the staff live on the canal, so useful hours about 5 a day)

Already taken into account in spades. I gave them four weeks to do one week's work.

 

* project planning

Yep, add in £5k for a chair polisher to do his stuff. 

 

* planning permission esp listed building consent - don't know if it applies here but it does to most of the bridges that get knocked into)

Yep, a PP application prolly costs about £300. Add that in too.

 

* highway closure

Now this is probably a biggie. I've no idea what this costs but closing a country lane prolly costs maybe £250 a day.

[Mike Todd]

13 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

* overheads (at least 1.25 on basic pay rate)

Disallowed. My £50 an hour labour rate includes all overheads. For a PAYE bod its half that rate.

 

* equipment (well, toilets at least)

Ok add in £500 a week bog hire

 

* transport (none of the staff live on the canal, so useful hours about 5 a day)

Already taken into account in spades. I gave them four weeks to do one week's work.

 

* project planning

Yep, add in £5k for a chair polisher to do his stuff. 

 

* planning permission esp listed building consent - don't know if it applies here but it does to most of the bridges that get knocked into)

Yep, a PP application prolly costs about £300. Add that in too.

 

* highway closure

Now this is probably a biggie. I've no idea what this costs but closing a country lane prolly costs maybe £250 a day.

I suspect the tenor of this comment indicates your attitude to the management of projects. In today's context of H&S and other regulation, the old-time approach of just diving in to fix things instinctively , is no longer acceptable (rightly).

 

Currently the PO Horizon Inquiry is a good test example of how important paperwork may become to a business at some point int the future when it is too late to plug the gaps. Poorly drafted notes, even handwritten meeting notes as well as hasty emails, can all come under scrutiny and end up costing the organisation huge amounts of money and reputation damage.

 

You also underestimate the impact of overheads in organisational costing. They include a lot more than just NI: holidays, sick and maternity leave, training, supervision are just the start point. Also add in the depreciation on the vehicles and other equipment and you start to get to much larger amounts.

 

[Peanut]

The H&S aspect would have cost, you would need scaffolding to work from and prevent falls, set up over water, and then taken down, wouldn't have been free. You can't expect them to work off a ladder any more.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

What’s an application prolly? I see mention of a country lane prolly too?

 

I think, I’m not certain, CRT have some sort of agreement that they don’t necessarily have to apply for planning or consent on each and every project. 
They have so many historic assets they’d never get anything fixed if they had to go through the planning process each time. 


I guess the hire of plant machinery don’t come cheap. I expect the £100,000 is an exaggeration but maybe not far off it. 🤷‍♀️

 

[David Mack]

From the pictures in the article, part of the damaged wall remained on the bridge and part of it did not, so presumably plenty of bricks ended up in the canal. So to the cost of bricklaying you have to add in:

- safely recovering the brickwork left hanging over the edge of the bridge

- recovering fallen brickwork from the bank below the bridge

- recovering bricks from the canal - presumably requiring a dredger

- breaking up the old masonry chunks and cleaning the bricks for reuse

- replacement bricks for those still missing, damaged during the events or otherwise unsuitable for reuse.

- Erecting and then dismantling scaffolding (partly footed in the canal) against the side of the bridge

[cuthound]

17 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Check the number of 0's you've quoted!
There appears to be too many.

 

No, the headline says the damaged bridge cost £100,000 to repair and that bridge repairs caused by vehicle strikes in general cost CRT £1,000,000 per annum.

[robtheplod]

17 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

So it should be either

 

"Careless driver costs CRT £100,000" (referring to the specific incident), or

 

 "Careless drivers cost CRT £1,000,000" ( referring to the total annual cost of all such incidents). 

maybe its one incredibly careless driver who's going round breaking bridges?

[Machpoint005]

What struck me is that according to the Beeb reporter, there would seem to be about ten bridge strikes a year. or even more if they are minor ones. I thought we were supposed to have decent driving standards in this country? 

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

6 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

What struck me is that according to the Beeb reporter, there would seem to be about ten bridge strikes a year. or even more if they are minor ones. I thought we were supposed to have decent driving standards in this country? 

 

 

 

 

 

not sure about the theory of having decent drivers. I don't drive anymore as there are too many idiots but at one stage I had someone holding his phone to the side window and filming me also looking out rather than ahead of him because he had a range rover (that crap chav rangie not a real one)  and I had a little suzuki hatchback and I was going faster than him and overtaking. 

 

Bizarre. 

 

 

It was probably the small car v big car mentality. I always drove fast on motorways. I remember the Jaguar Ford rubbishmobile coming up behind flashing his lights.  I gave way then he slowed down in front of me and eventually moved across so I could carry on with my high speed journey across a section of land desecrated by having TarMac laid over it. 

 

Much prefer Boats these days and trains !

 

 

 

 

[Machpoint005]

BCSD

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

BCSD

 

 

 

 

 

 

Business Council for Sustainable  Development ?

 

 

[cuthound]

22 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

What struck me is that according to the Beeb reporter, there would seem to be about ten bridge strikes a year. or even more if they are minor ones. I thought we were supposed to have decent driving standards in this country? 

 

 

 

 

 

It is mainly heavy trucks which cause the damage.

 

I live adjacent to an old canal bridge.

 

Recently locally they have been developing the local sports ground to include an all weather football pitch.

 

"My" bridge has a 4 tonne axle limit on it (except for buses which unfathomably can have a 6 tonne axle limit), yet several laden 8 wheeler tipper trucks and at least one low loader articulated truck drove over the bridge during the early stages of the works.

 

I reported these to the Local Authority, The County Council, CRT and the manager on site (who I suggested that if drivers were having difficulty finding the correct route to the site perhaps he should consider putting up temporary local signage) to no avail.

 

Fortunately no obvious damage has been done.

[Momac]

On 12/06/2024 at 20:51, steve hayes said:

£100K for that repair seems way over the top, the stonework was all reclaimed, so it was predominantly labour costs.

I can think of quite a lot of things other than construction labour

 

Welfare facilities and daily travel to site

Scaffold on the canal side of the bridge - surveying the site, design erection and removal

Notices regarding temporary road restrictions and cana[ navigation restrictions

Structural Engineering assessment of damage, report  , design and specification

Costing and reporting , obtaining funding 

Method statements and risk assessments 

Traffic control measures design and management 

Obtaining relevant approvals (the bridge may be listed )

Machine hire eg breakers and excavator to temporarily remove and reinstate the retained highway 

Local authority highways consents and approvals 

Also some material required eg mortar ., road reinstatement materials

 

But still £100 k seems a lot. It depends whether you believe all aspects of the  fake news you read on the interweb