Diesel prices

[STIG]

So with the extortionate diesel prices, what difference would it make to put ordinary white diesel in the boat, especially when grindley brook can sell at £1.40

[Tracy D'arth]

11 minutes ago, STIG said:

So with the extortionate diesel prices, what difference would it make to put ordinary white diesel in the boat, especially when grindley brook can sell at £1.40

None whatsoever. Its what will eventually happen.

[ditchcrawler]

18 minutes ago, STIG said:

So with the extortionate diesel prices, what difference would it make to put ordinary white diesel in the boat, especially when grindley brook can sell at £1.40

Don't they sell red as well?

[Lady M]

I think white has more biodiesel in than red.  Probably OK if you use it all up fairly soon.

[Onewheeler]

Our local supplier is charging the same for red as the petrol stations are for DERV

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, Lady M said:

I think white has more biodiesel in than red.  Probably OK if you use it all up fairly soon.

If that is correct, (and I'm not 100% certain that it is), then you would presumably need to be more cautious if you have an older or vintage engine, as I gather that rubber seals in these might be more prone to damage by biofuel.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Lady M said:

I think white has more biodiesel in than red.  Probably OK if you use it all up fairly soon.

 

Nowadays probably not. At one time certain refineries produced red with no FAME in it for agriculture and such like that stored fuel in equipment from one year to the next, so boatyards could get FAME free red as long as their local refinery provided it. nowadays it seems this has topped so there should only be a minimal, if nay, difference between white and red diesel. Red central heating oil may be a bit different, possibly having a lower cetane rating and thus making diesel knock worse.

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

If that is correct, (and I'm not 100% certain that it is), then you would presumably need to be more cautious if you have an older or vintage engine, as I gather that rubber seals in these might be more prone to damage by biofuel.

 

True, but I suspect that has largely worked its way out of the system. The pumps most prone would be the DPAs and similar (BMC1.5s etc.) whereas the true vintage engines have very few seals in their pumps and in many cases a leak from their seals won't get into the sump.

[STIG]

48 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Don't they sell red as well?

No they stopped selling to public only tanks

[Paul C]

What's the cost difference between a cheap garage and a cheap marina that allows a declared split of your choice?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

the cheap garages, marinas and yards I’m thinking of the difference is very little,

 

the trick is not getting stung by the expensive marinas

 

I’m surprised I’ve not been ripped off in the South, 

it’s been about £1.04 for domestic so far. 
 

this beer I have in front of me cost £7.60, the most I’ve ever paid for a pint. Very nice mind and I’m sitting in what were  public toilets. 
High Cross Pub,Tottenham. 

 

[Momac]

8 hours ago, Lady M said:

I think white has more biodiesel in than red.  Probably OK if you use it all up fairly soon.

 Red is simply White with dye added

 

[MtB]

47 minutes ago, beerbeerbeerbeerbeer said:

this beer I have in front of me cost £7.60, the most I’ve ever paid for a pint. Very nice mind and I’m sitting in what were  public toilets. 
High Cross Pub,Tottenham. 

 

 

Looks like they had you over a treat!!!! 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Momac said:

 Red is simply White with dye added

 

 

Not quite, according to a fuels chemist at BP who happens to be a close relation of mine. 

 

 

[cuthound]

51 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Looks like they had you over a treat!!!! 

 

 

 

Not quite, according to a fuels chemist at BP who happens to be a close relation of mine. 

 

 

 

Not according to this fuel supplier.

 

https://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/news/red-diesel-ban/#:~:text=Red diesel is different from,differentiate it from unrebated fuel.

 

"Red diesel is different from white or “road” diesel in two ways: its colour, and the rate at which it’s taxed. Chemically, the two fuels are identical, and release identical levels of greenhouse gasses when burned.

Its colour is changed through the use of a red dye that’s used to differentiate it from unrebated fuel."

Edited May 3 by cuthound

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Not according to this fuel supplier.

 

https://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/news/red-diesel-ban/#:~:text=Red diesel is different from,differentiate it from unrebated fuel.

 

"Red diesel is different from white or “road” diesel in two ways: its colour, and the rate at which it’s taxed. Chemically, the two fuels are identical, and release identical levels of greenhouse gasses when burned.

Its colour is changed through the use of a red dye that’s used to differentiate it from unrebated fuel."

 

I see no mention of the anti-waxing jollop added to white diesel in winter. 

 

Maybe they add it to red too? 

 

 

 

[STIG]

27 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Not according to this fuel supplier.

 

https://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/news/red-diesel-ban/#:~:text=Red diesel is different from,differentiate it from unrebated fuel.

 

"Red diesel is different from white or “road” diesel in two ways: its colour, and the rate at which it’s taxed. Chemically, the two fuels are identical, and release identical levels of greenhouse gasses when burned.

Its colour is changed through the use of a red dye that’s used to differentiate it from unrebated fuel."

So in my modern vetus 4.17 I could put the same diesel in that’s in my car

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I see no mention of the anti-waxing jollop added to white diesel in winter. 

 

Maybe they add it to red too? 

 

 

 

 

 

No mention of the chemical marker that is added to Red -  unlike the dye, this cannot be removed by distilation. bleaching etc.

[Naughty Cal]

1 hour ago, STIG said:

So in my modern vetus 4.17 I could put the same diesel in that’s in my car

Yes 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

Looks like they had you over a treat!!!! 

I can afford it 

 

😃

[Momac]

Boats inthe EU have been using white diesel for some years.

As far as the engines are concerned there is no difference between red and white.  Some suppliers like BP do offer a higher cetane grade of diesel .I doubt this is used for making red by adding dye.

Fuel additives are available which may enhance the cetane number.

I don't really understand why red diesel is still available in the UK. The availability of red diesel seems an avoidable complexity.

 

 

 

 

 

[Lady M]

While there is a lower duty version of diesel for some purposes, it is necessary to mark it.  One of the arguments against having white diesel at boatyards is security concerns.

[cuthound]

13 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I see no mention of the anti-waxing jollop added to white diesel in winter. 

 

Maybe they add it to red too? 

 

 

 

 

Yes they do.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Momac said:

Boats inthe EU have been using white diesel for some years.

As far as the engines are concerned there is no difference between red and white.  Some suppliers like BP do offer a higher cetane grade of diesel .I doubt this is used for making red by adding dye.

Fuel additives are available which may enhance the cetane number.

I don't really understand why red diesel is still available in the UK. The availability of red diesel seems an avoidable complexity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is permitted for heating and agricultural use only in the UK, unless additional duty is paid.

Edited May 4 by cuthound
To insert spaces between merged posts

[Up-Side-Down]

Just for the record, I know of at least two boatyards where you can still buy FAME-free diesel. In fact it's (the old) high sulphur MGO which is more often found in sea-going shipping. There's a price premium too ... although there didn't use to be.

[Momac]

2 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

 In fact it's (the old) high sulphur MGO which is more often found in sea-going shipping. 

Can that  legally be used in a pleasure craft like a narrowboat?

 

 

[Up-Side-Down]

13 minutes ago, Momac said:

Can that  legally be used in a pleasure craft like a narrowboat?

 

 

As far as I'm aware, yes. One of the boatyards is on the Thames.

[Momac]

34 minutes ago, Up-Side-Down said:

As far as I'm aware, yes. One of the boatyards is on the Thames.

I suspect its low sulphur fuel they are selling.