Correct engine oil for Vetus M4.17

[dan01eb]

Hi, I'm trying to identify the correct engine oil for a Vetus m4.17. The manual says CC or CD grade 15w - 40 mineral oil. Could anyone confirm if the part synthetic from Halfords would will be ok? If not hopefully the status car care E7 mineral is correct? Cheers

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/engine-oil/halfords-15w40-part-synthetic-oil-2---5-litres-285286.html

 

https://shop.statuscarcare.com/product/status-car-care-15w40-e7-super-mineral-engine-oil-e7-5l-5-litre/

[Tracy D'arth]

I would not used a part or whole synthetic oil as it is not on spec and too expensive. There are loads of plain 15w40 oils available from car spares shops, farm suppliers and on line.

You may not find CC or CD grades now but no harm in using higher grades, CE, CF,or CG even.

Recycled oils are also suitable and may be better as they will contain a small amount of ash which will aid bore cleaning.

Edited March 20 by Tracy D'arth

[Tony Brooks]

15 minutes ago, dan01eb said:

Hi, I'm trying to identify the correct engine oil for a Vetus m4.17. The manual says CC or CD grade 15w - 40 mineral oil. Could anyone confirm if the part synthetic from Halfords would will be ok? If not hopefully the status car care E7 mineral is correct? Cheers

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-and-fluids/engine-oil/halfords-15w40-part-synthetic-oil-2---5-litres-285286.html

 

https://shop.statuscarcare.com/product/status-car-care-15w40-e7-super-mineral-engine-oil-e7-5l-5-litre/

 

I am not sure that there is a definitive answer to that because all CC or CD oils contain additives to improve their performance in a number of ways, that is called an additive pack, and it is produced in chemical factories, so I am not sure that the "semi-synthetic" claim is not marketing referring to the additive pack because many think synthetic oil is the best. Both oils exceed the CC/CD specification, so probably have more additives than CC or CD.

 

I am not sure that Tracy is correct about getting hold of non-synthetic oil anymore. It certainly used to be the case that it was cheaper and most motor factors stocked it, but now Europarts seem to be gobbling up the smaller factors it is getting increasingly difficult to find. Such suppliers like Morris oils or millers now seem to sell it as a premium product for the classic car market. Halfords seem to list the Morris product. Try looking in agricultural suppliers.

 

If the engine is new then, just as a precaution, I would look for a CC or CD oil, but if the engine is well run in then I very much doubt either oil will do any harm, but I would give the engine a good blast of speed when the safe opportunity arises.

 

Edited March 20 by Tony Brooks

[dan01eb]

11 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I would not used a part or whole synthetic oil as it is not on spec and too expensive. There are loads of plain 15w40 oils available from car spares shops, farm suppliers and on line.

You may not find CC or CD grades now but no harm in using higher grades, CE, CF,or CG even.

Recycled oils are also suitable and may be better as they will contain a small amount of ash which will aid bore cleaning.

 

8 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am not sure that there is a definitive answer to that because all CC or CD oils contain additives to improve their performance in a number of ways, that is called an additive pack, and it is produced in chemical factories, so I am not sure that the "semi-synthetic" claim is not marketing referring to the additive pack because many think synthetic oil is the best. Both oils exceed the CC/CD specification, so probably have more additives than CC or CD.

If the engine is new then, just as a precaution, I would look for a CC or CD oil, but if the engine is well run in then I very much doubt either oil will do any harm, but I would give the engine a good blast of speed when the safe opportunity arises.

 

The engine isn't new, it's approx 2007 and has just over 3000 hours. I'm thinking of ordering the following if the spec looks correct enough? I'm about to service the engine for the first time since acquiring the boat..

 

Status Car Care 15W40 E7 Super MINERAL ENGINE OIL E7 5L 5 Litre
 
£24.49

15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 is a top-tier mixed-fleet multi-grade engine oil suitable for use in the latest heavy duty diesel and petrol engines. 15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 meets the latest ACEA and API performance levels and is formulated for use in Euro III and Euro IV technology vehicles where low SAPS levels are not specified. 15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 meets exhaust emission standards implemented in 2002, sustains engine performance where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used and can be used with diesel fuels containing up to 0.5% sulphur.
 
Wide Ranging Fleet Product for Diesel and Petrol Engines
Excellent Protection for European, US and Japanese Engines.
Protects against Wear and Ring Sticking at High Temperatures, maintaining Engine and Oil Performance.
Low Oil Consumption and Extended Oil Drain Intervals
Excellent High and Low Temperature Performance
Long Lasting Dispersant, Anti-wear and Corrosion Protection
API SL/CI-4
ACEA: A3/B3, A3/B4, E3, E5, E7
Cummins: CES 20071, 72, 76, 77, 78
Mack: EO-M Plus
MB: 228.3, 229.1
VW: 505.00 quality
Volvo: VDS-3
MAN: M3275
RVI: RLD
Global: DHD-1

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, dan01eb said:

 

The engine isn't new, it's approx 2007 and has just over 3000 hours. I'm thinking of ordering the following if the spec looks correct enough? I'm about to service the engine for the first time since acquiring the boat..

 

Status Car Care 15W40 E7 Super MINERAL ENGINE OIL E7 5L 5 Litre
 
£24.49

15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 is a top-tier mixed-fleet multi-grade engine oil suitable for use in the latest heavy duty diesel and petrol engines. 15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 meets the latest ACEA and API performance levels and is formulated for use in Euro III and Euro IV technology vehicles where low SAPS levels are not specified. 15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 meets exhaust emission standards implemented in 2002, sustains engine performance where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used and can be used with diesel fuels containing up to 0.5% sulphur.
 
Wide Ranging Fleet Product for Diesel and Petrol Engines
Excellent Protection for European, US and Japanese Engines.
Protects against Wear and Ring Sticking at High Temperatures, maintaining Engine and Oil Performance.
Low Oil Consumption and Extended Oil Drain Intervals
Excellent High and Low Temperature Performance
Long Lasting Dispersant, Anti-wear and Corrosion Protection
API SL/CI-4
ACEA: A3/B3, A3/B4, E3, E5, E7
Cummins: CES 20071, 72, 76, 77, 78
Mack: EO-M Plus
MB: 228.3, 229.1
VW: 505.00 quality
Volvo: VDS-3
MAN: M3275
RVI: RLD
Global: DHD-1

Looks to be right but the price is crazy, I buy the cheapest 15w40 off ebay in 20 litre drums. At this level. oil is oil despite the fancy specs and they are unnecessary for what is after all only a basic plant engine.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272047822428?

 

[Tony Brooks]

22 minutes ago, dan01eb said:

 

The engine isn't new, it's approx 2007 and has just over 3000 hours. I'm thinking of ordering the following if the spec looks correct enough? I'm about to service the engine for the first time since acquiring the boat..

 

Status Car Care 15W40 E7 Super MINERAL ENGINE OIL E7 5L 5 Litre
 
£24.49

15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 is a top-tier mixed-fleet multi-grade engine oil suitable for use in the latest heavy duty diesel and petrol engines. 15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 meets the latest ACEA and API performance levels and is formulated for use in Euro III and Euro IV technology vehicles where low SAPS levels are not specified. 15W/40 E7 SL/CI-4 meets exhaust emission standards implemented in 2002, sustains engine performance where exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is used and can be used with diesel fuels containing up to 0.5% sulphur.
 
Wide Ranging Fleet Product for Diesel and Petrol Engines
Excellent Protection for European, US and Japanese Engines.
Protects against Wear and Ring Sticking at High Temperatures, maintaining Engine and Oil Performance.
Low Oil Consumption and Extended Oil Drain Intervals
Excellent High and Low Temperature Performance
Long Lasting Dispersant, Anti-wear and Corrosion Protection
API SL/CI-4
ACEA: A3/B3, A3/B4, E3, E5, E7
Cummins: CES 20071, 72, 76, 77, 78
Mack: EO-M Plus
MB: 228.3, 229.1
VW: 505.00 quality
Volvo: VDS-3
MAN: M3275
RVI: RLD
Global: DHD-1

 

Note the API spec for diesel engines CI-4. That is five steps along the API specifications from CD, so it is not "correct enough". However, as I said, in an older, well run in, engine I doubt it will do any harm.

 

Your third paragraph is not much more that bullshine as far as your engine is concerned. Read what Tracy just said. However. your engine, your money, your choice.

 

Also look a local heating fuel suppliers, they often supplier diesel oil, and carry lube oils as well, but often in 20 or 25 litre drums.

Edited March 20 by Tony Brooks

[dmr]

The theory/folklore/fact? is that the "stronger" additives in more recent oils can lead to bore glazing in narrowboat engines because they of an old design and/or lightly loaded. In this case it is wise to stick to no more than API CC, and this is exactly why CC is still available. Some engines are more prone to glazing than others so there is no easy answer.  As an aside this is why some naughty boaters run in gear for battery charging when moored up.

 

Not sure, but I think I read somewhere that CI and above are best avoided and these are "compromised" by the need to support emmisions equipment (DPF or sommat). If you do not feel that you need CC then maybe go no higher than CG.

 

I spoke to Morris technical many years ago and thet recomended their duplex CDX. This is a mixed fleet CG4 but the additive pack is still less extreme than other CG4 oils, only comes in 25litre pots..

 

I am currently running my engine on synthetic CI-4 but I accept that I might go to hell for this 😀.

[Tony Brooks]

22 minutes ago, dmr said:

I am currently running my engine on synthetic CI-4 but I accept that I might go to hell for this 😀.

 

When we had the boat, I took a similar line to you. Although CC/CD oil was specified, I ran it on CF or CG because it was more readily available and at better prices. But I accepted that if it did glaze, it would be down to me, however I don't feel it wise to till an unknown boater that doing so is definitely acceptable. Too much about bore glazing is not well enough documented.

[ditchcrawler]

I just wonder why when the manufacturer goes to a lot of trouble specifying a standard, not make of oil to be used in their engines people often what to use something else 

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I just wonder why when the manufacturer goes to a lot of trouble specifying a standard, not make of oil to be used in their engines people often what to use something else 

 

In some cases the engine design is so old the standard specified was the best available t the time, but things move on and the specified oil becomes a specialist product. I don't think there has been enough research into the effects of using a higher spec oil in engines it was never specified for.

[bizzard]

Essex Motor Factors of Bishops Stortford stock the range of Morris oils. I use them in boats and in my car. Very good service.  = Essex Motor Factors 01279 653211.

[Tracy D'arth]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I just wonder why when the manufacturer goes to a lot of trouble specifying a standard, not make of oil to be used in their engines people often what to use something else 

I wonder too why the oil specs are so difficult for Joe public to understand. Having been tied to several oil companies products in our different garages I could never see the difference between them all. The possible exception was Duckhams, their 20w50 was green again all the others brown!

From experience I have found that the average mass produced engines will run fine on any oil for a long time, the vehicle usually dies of other than engine failure. Being lazy now I never change oil, in fact I rarely open the bonnet unless it is to top up the washer bottle. My engines still run for 40,000 to 70,000 miles before the tin worm causes a test fail and recycling.

Inland boat engines are hugely under stressed but are expected to last for many more years than the average car so I suppose more attention should be shown to oil specs but I have never bothered and have never had an engine failure in 50 years. In the early boating years we ran everything on recycled oil from Ironsides in Stockport, no trouble.

[bizzard]

The latest Ford Ecoboost engines now in various Fraud models have wet timing and oil pump drive belts ''RUNNING IN OIL!!!!. and some diesels too. The problem is wear fibre gunge from belts blocking the oil pump filter. Chains would be much much better running in oil but more expensive of course. I've recommended to a couple of folk with these engines to change there oil and filters every 3,000 mile

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

The latest Ford Ecoboost engines now in various Fraud models have wet timing and oil pump drive belts ''RUNNING IN OIL!!!!. and some diesels too. The problem is wear fibre gunge from belts blocking the oil pump filter. Chains would be much much better running in oil but more expensive of course. I've recommended to a couple of folk with these engines to change there oil and filters every 3,000 mile

 

And a report from the garage I use said that the wrong oil makes the blocking worse and it has cost customers new engines.

[bizzard]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

And a report from the garage I use said that the wrong oil makes the blocking worse and it has cost customers new engines.

It seems to be more of a problem in America probably cos they travel longer distances. Yes the 1 litre 3 cyl engine is the biggest problem. An engine of about 80hp boosted to about 120hp with a turbo. Fitted in quite big cars. Focus, Ecosport ect. Those little engines must be quite heavily stressed.

[dmr]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

When we had the boat, I took a similar line to you. Although CC/CD oil was specified, I ran it on CF or CG because it was more readily available and at better prices. But I accepted that if it did glaze, it would be down to me, however I don't feel it wise to till an unknown boater that doing so is definitely acceptable. Too much about bore glazing is not well enough documented.

 

Thats why I said Folklore/fact?. I suspect that bore glazing is likely much less of an issue than its reputation (as long as the engine is run in correctly), but II would not want to recomend that anybody uses a high spec oil without pointing out there is a possible risk.

 

 

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I just wonder why when the manufacturer goes to a lot of trouble specifying a standard, not make of oil to be used in their engines people often what to use something else 

 

I suspect that most canal boat engines are running so far out of the conditions that they were designed for that the manufacterers recomendations are probably null and void.

[alan_fincher]

4 hours ago, bizzard said:

Essex Motor Factors of Bishops Stortford stock the range of Morris oils. I use them in boats and in my car. Very good service.  = Essex Motor Factors 01279 653211.

 

AFAIK Morris don't do a 15W/40 in their Golden Film range - a shame as it meets the API CC requirement.

I've not re-checked, but over the years I have used Morris 10W/40, 20W/40, and straight monograde SAE 30.

I thing those are your only possibilities for Golden Film API-CC.

Edited March 20 by alan_fincher

[Tony Brooks]

39 minutes ago, dmr said:

I suspect that most canal boat engines are running so far out of the conditions that they were designed for that the manufacterers recomendations are probably null and void.

 

I agree with that, not only exceptionally lightly loaded when on canals, but also may run with a much lower thermostat temperature than in vehicle/plant use.

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am not sure that there is a definitive answer to that because all CC or CD oils contain additives to improve their performance in a number of ways, that is called an additive pack, and it is produced in chemical factories, so I am not sure that the "semi-synthetic" claim is not marketing referring to the additive pack because many think synthetic oil is the best. Both oils exceed the CC/CD specification, so probably have more additives than CC or CD.

 

I am not sure that Tracy is correct about getting hold of non-synthetic oil anymore. It certainly used to be the case that it was cheaper and most motor factors stocked it, but now Europarts seem to be gobbling up the smaller factors it is getting increasingly difficult to find. Such suppliers like Morris oils or millers now seem to sell it as a premium product for the classic car market. Halfords seem to list the Morris product. Try looking in agricultural suppliers.

 

If the engine is new then, just as a precaution, I would look for a CC or CD oil, but if the engine is well run in then I very much doubt either oil will do any harm, but I would give the engine a good blast of speed when the safe opportunity arises.

 

My engine, Isuzu 33LB with 3000 hours has has cc non synthetic oil , generally about 250 hours, and if on a run of more than an hour i tend to alter the revs from normal to higher than normal and back to normal after maybe twenty minutes.

 I always warm it up before setting off.

Running to charge the engne I might have it a bit above tickover, and try to limit it to 60 to 90 minutes per day.

Is this the best way to keep it sweet, I never have to top it up.

Is there a special throttle setting at start up or at shut down? Brrmmm brrrrm?

Edited March 20 by LadyG

[jonesthenuke]

This supplier provides 15W40 in API CC.  I have used oil from this supplier before and it's been fine, though I have not used this particular oil as I need a straight SAE30. The price includes delivery.

 

PS The company is adjacent to the Staff and Worcs canal in Wombourne

 

https://www.westwayoils.co.uk/products/15w40-mineral-classic-oil-high-zinc-zddp?_pos=6&_sid=725db1702&_ss=r

 

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

 

AFAIK Morris don't do a 15W/40 in their Golden Film range - a shame as it meets the API CC requirement.

I've not re-checked, but over the years I have used Morris 10W/40, 20W/40, and straight monograde SAE 30.

I thing those are your only possibilities for Golden Film API-CC.

The Morris 10W/40 states it is suitable to use where 15W/40 is specified.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

[dan01eb]

Thanks for all the help, I'm now more confused about oil specs than when I first asked the question 😅.

Edited March 20 by dan01eb

[jonesthenuke]

Just use the oil from Westway, it is the spec you originally asked for.

[dan01eb]

22 minutes ago, jonesthenuke said:

Just use the oil from Westway, it is the spec you originally asked for.

High zinc?