Insights on an offer (subject to pre-purchase survey)

[blu]

As I mentioned before I’m in the process of buying a narrowboat.

After a lot of research I know what I want - type, price range, compromises… you know the deal

I saw one that I’m interested in and thought of coming to you lot to ask for your insights:

 

1 - The state of the boat is - without a pre-purchase survey, just after a visit - in good state. I can see it’s been taken care of (the engine compartment is spotless) but there are things that straight away need doing:
Water boiler + install (there’s no hot water on demand)

New Flooring (not in really bad state at this point, most carpet ;-(  just the bathroom seems an issue, all this of course before survey)

New Fridge (old and smelly)

Stove sealant + door which is a bit jammed

Windows seals (some are coming off)

 

How much would all this count on the offer (subject to pre-purchase survey)?

 

2 - how much haggling is normal in the negotiation process? It’s in a marina, with a broker - from my reliable surveyor input the marina & broker are reputable. The boat has been for sale since June2023. I was thinking of pushing to a -20%

 

Thanks!

[LadyG]

Sounds like a project which has been on the market for a long time, so possibly has been surveyed !?

If the boat is built by a good builder that provides confidence.

Sounds like owner fit out and maintenance by an unskilled owner.

Engines can be cleaned up, but rusty wet engine hole would be off putting.

If eg one buys a half decent boat about 15 years old at £50K, one would expect hot water on tap, a good stove and a Webasto type heater if it is used all year round. 

If you don't have good mechanical, electrical and woodworking skills be very wary of taking on a project.

A boat that costs £50K, without liveaboard essentials,  in my experience will need something like £5K to buy a few bits and pieces, in the first eighteen months.

It all depends.

New floor £300-3000

New 12 v fridge £700

Solar panels and electrics £500 - £1000

Plumbing £?- £1000-1500

New batteries and checking basic electrics £400-1000.

 

Total £3000-£7200!

If it's a £50K boat and you want to offer £45K  that's 10% discount 

If you are paying for a survey, and it all looks good, then you offer 10% off, but he may not want to haggle if the boat is sound, not everyone can be bothered with that sort of thing.  

Ask the surveyor for the current market value.

Edited January 7 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

Decent boats have been selling at asking prices on the day they have been listed, but it does appear to be 'coolinng down' now.

You can offer whatever you want, BUT, if it has been someones pride & joy (spotless engine hole) then it is very easy to offend and for the seller to say "I'm not selling it to you - clear orf"

You decide how much you want it and offer based on that.

 

 

14 minutes ago, blu said:

I can see it’s been taken care of (the engine compartment is spotless)

 

 

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Engines can be cleaned up, but rusty wet engine hole would be off putting.

 

Where did you get that from ?

[Higgs]

3 minutes ago, blu said:

As I mentioned before I’m in the process of buying a narrowboat.

After a lot of research I know what I want - type, price range, compromises… you know the deal

I saw one that I’m interested in and thought of coming to you lot to ask for your insights:

 

1 - The state of the boat is - without a pre-purchase survey, just after a visit - in good state. I can see it’s been taken care of (the engine compartment is spotless) but there are things that straight away need doing:
Water boiler + install (there’s no hot water on demand)

New Flooring (not in really bad state at this point, most carpet ;-(  just the bathroom seems an issue, all this of course before survey)

New Fridge (old and smelly)

Stove sealant + door which is a bit jammed

Windows seals (some are coming off)

 

How much would all this count on the offer (subject to pre-purchase survey)?

 

2 - how much haggling is normal in the negotiation process? It’s in a marina, with a broker - from my reliable surveyor input the marina & broker are reputable. The boat has been for sale since June2023. I was thinking of pushing to a -20%

 

Thanks!

 

You're not buying a new boat. You have seen the visible signs of ageing. This is not something they can hide. If it comes without a water boiler, that is what you're buying, with no responsibility on the part of the seller that they should feel they let you down, and they will not need to consider that as a reduction of price consideration. So, all of the noticeable signs of wear and tear you must weigh up, and consider in your negotiation. You can't negotiate on the boat you'd like it to be.  Suck it and see.

 

 

[blu]

 

18 minutes ago, LadyG said:

in my experience will need something like £5K to buy a few bits and pieces

 

Thank you for that. I had kind of the same ball part figure to sort things out - 5k. Reassuring to see that at least my research is sound. 

 

15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

if it has been someones pride & joy (spotless engine hole) then it is very easy to offend

 

Very good to know this, thank you

 

14 minutes ago, Higgs said:

You can't negotiate on the boat you'd like it to be.

 

Sure, I get it, but wouldn't the flooring, windows and stove seals count though?

[Tony Brooks]

"On demand" water boilers are probably on the minority of boats. Hot water is typically provides by a calorifer (indirect hot water cylinder) with heating coil(s). One fed by the engine coolant and, if here is a second, the wet central heating system. It may also have an immersion heater for use when plugged into shore power. Calorifiers provide free hot water when cruising.

 

If you are cruising then the calorifier provides almost "on demand" hot water, but if you intend to moor for long periods without shore power then an instant gas water heater does seem to be a good idea. You can get the best of both worlds by fitting an instant gas water heater and a change over valve to ensure you never draw hot calorifier water through the gas water heater.

 

There are gas water boilers like the Truma, but I don't think that you are talking abut those.

[Arthur Marshall]

No hot water on demand may just mean there's a calorifier, so it comes off the engine. In that case, the owner won't see any reason to cut the price just because you want an instant heater. Stove doors stick if unused, and they rust - again, normal for lsck of use, and if the fridge works, being old and smelly isn't its fault! If the door's been kept shut for 6 months, it'll get mouldy, it just needs a clean. Ditto carpet on the floor, just because you don't like it, no cause for complaint.

Windows seals may be an issue if they leak. Otherwise, I can't see any grounds for any reduction in your list. You have to offer what you think it's worth to you as it is. Factor in what you'll need to spend on your changes for the whole budget, but the current owner isn't going to pay for them. The only real reasons to get a reduction are structural.

[Higgs]

5 minutes ago, blu said:

Sure, I get it, but wouldn't the flooring, windows and stove seals count though?

 

 

 

Yes, you can value the boat. 

 

 

[blu]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

"On demand" water boilers are probably on the minority of boats.

 

I might have used the wrong term, but what I meant is - I'll install a gas heater boiler. But yes, this should not be part of the "haggling" as already highlighted by Higgs 

21 minutes ago, Higgs said:

You can't negotiate on the boat you'd like it to be

 

 

2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The only real reasons to get a reduction are structural.

 

[kevinl]

Doesn't matter if it's boat, house or car you're buying, some  people always want to haggle, if it's priced fairly and competitively and you want it just pay the price they, as I say if it's fairly priced.

I've bought another boat and I paid full asking price and I think I got a bargain.

Someone had put in offer on the boat 15 percent under asking price, owner said no to the offer, before they came back with a better offer I was in the process of buying it, they then offered more than the asking price.

Owner turned them down, some nice people still out there.

Apparently they've been asking who bought it so they can see if I want to sell!

Don't lose the right boat in the right place over it.

My house is up for sale and I've told the estate agent no offers, it's up for the right price 5-10 pc less than comparable in the area, I want a quick sale.

K

[blu]

4 minutes ago, kevinl said:

Don't lose the right boat in the right place over it.

 

Great advice, thank you!

[Crewcut]

Couple of boats I've bought where I said I'm not even going to try to haggle because the price is fair and this has the added advantage that the existing owner is kept very much on side which can sometimes be useful. Not so much if you're buying off a broker though. Too many boat sales have fallen through over what, in the grand scheme of things, is not that significant...

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You can offer whatever you want, BUT, if it has been someones pride & joy (spotless engine hole) then it is very easy to offend and for the seller to say "I'm not selling it to you - clear orf"

That is exactly the attitude I had with a recent enquirer of the boat I have for sale. Before even viewing it they asked for 10K to be taken off the price. I was like, goodbye. If you are going to ask for a reduction, at least view the boat first, or have a survey to give credence to your offer.

 

 

 

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 if it has been someones pride & joy (spotless engine hole) then it is very easy to offend and for the seller to say "I'm not selling it to you - clear orf"

You decide how much you want it and offer based on that

 

I think you'd have to be a particularly stupid or overly sensitive seller to take offence at someone making an offer on your boat. Surely the seller is more likely to say "I'm not selling it to you for that price!"

 

Price negotiations aren't personal and anyone who reacts as if they are must be a bit narrow minded.

 

 

[rusty69]

Did I just get called stupid, or perhaps overly sensitive? 😂

 

Ok, I'll take the stupid bit. 

[LadyG]

26 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I think you'd have to be a particularly stupid or overly sensitive seller to take offence at someone making an offer on your boat. Surely the seller is more likely to say "I'm not selling it to you for that price!"

 

Price negotiations aren't personal and anyone who reacts as if they are must be a bit narrow minded.

 

 

Not always, if I want to sell my boat quickly or even slowly, but in a particular time frame, I'd be open to offers. If I was able to keep boat till I got the right price, I'd wait till I got the price I wanted.

Also it depends on the vendor / purchaser relationship.

When I bought my boat the previous owner took my money and bought a plastic, but even though he could have asked how are things going, he chose not to, and in fact was very "cold". I have bought other boats where the attitude has been the complete opposite, this is "after sale", but some folks are nicer than others, that's life.

If the idiot phones up and asks for a discount before even viewing, ask for his cash if the boat is sinking, else put the phone down.

Edited January 7 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

Nothing to do with the price you pay, but are you saying this boat doesn't have ANY hot water system which unless its a project and they heat kettles on the stove is most unusual.

[haggis]

If the fridge is smelly, a saucer with some baking soda left it it will quickly clear any smell. As has been said, fridges smell if left switched off and closed for a while

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Did I just get called stupid, or perhaps overly sensitive? 😂

 

Ok, I'll take the stupid bit. 

 

Hahaha. Ooops - sorry! 🤣

35 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Nothing to do with the price you pay, but are you saying this boat doesn't have ANY hot water system which unless its a project and they heat kettles on the stove is most unusual.

 

He said got water on demand. I took that to mean instant hot water.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

@blu please just put a link on to the boat, as without you’ll just get a lot of speculation, a prime example being @LadyG going on about it being a project boat, owner fitout, unskilled owner😂A link will give you the most accurate responses without guess work.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

 

He said got water on demand. I took that to mean instant hot water.

That is why I asked for clarification, as pointed out very few modern boat have hot water on demand but he doesn't say if you have to run the engine for hot water or if there is no hot water system

 

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, blu said:

I might have used the wrong term, but what I meant is - I'll install a gas heater boiler.

 

If you get a permanent mooring with power, then an immersion heater is likely to cheaper to run than a gas boiler. Bottle gas is getting expensive - especially Calor gas.

[blu]

7 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

@blu please just put a link on to the boat, as without you’ll just get a lot of speculation, a prime example being @LadyG going on about it being a project boat, owner fitout, unskilled owner😂A link will give you the most accurate responses without guess work.

 

Yeah. I know but I'm learning a lot even from the speculation.

It's nice to see how people react and how they try to be helpful.

I'm also learning to be more patient - a good thing if I'm going into this living aboard thing, I assume hehehe

Thank you all for the input, speculative or not ;-)

 

[LadyG]

11 hours ago, blu said:

 

 

Thank you for that. I had kind of the same ball part figure to sort things out - 5k. Reassuring to see that at least my research is sound. 

 

 

Very good to know this, thank you

 

 

Sure, I get it, but wouldn't the flooring, windows and stove seals count though?

An old carpet laid on a sound floor would take a few hours to replace. However, if the floor is unsound, that's a different thing.

I would be concerned about water ingress via windows.

As for a new seal on stove door, we'll, that's a minor issue in itself, if you can't sort that you need to re think living on a boat!

Have a look at a few more boats, build up your knowledge base.

 

23 minutes ago, blu said:

 

Yeah. I know but I'm learning a lot even from the speculation.

 

 

That indeed, was the point of my post .

 

Edited January 8 by LadyG

[BD3Bill]

I have say to the OP that all these minor concerns , are minor concerns. 

You should be more interested in the condition of the hull below the waterline before considering making an offer.