I've an idea to live on a boat.

[Bod]

Dear New Member.

This is a subject that comes up regularly on this forum.

For living on a narrowboat/widebeam on the English canals, there are many things to take into account, not least the cost.

True, for the most part you will not pay full Council tax, but against that there will be higher fuel costs, both for moving and heating.

The purchase price of a boat can be attractive, compared to a small house, 2nd hand boats are similar to 2nd hand cars, too cheap and you are buying someone elses troubles.  Like cars they go down in value the longer you keep them.  Unlike house, that go up!  (selling a house to buy a boat, may mean you will never be able to afford a house again.)

All canals and rivers are controlled by Navigation Authority's who have their rules and regulations to abide by.  These you need to be aware of , for the area you wish to boat in.

Living on a boat, on a permanent mooring needs Planning Permission from the local council, so true residential moorings are both rare and expensive, especially in towns.

Living on a boat has to be a life-style choice, that all members of the household are happy with.

Everything that comes into a house, gas, water, electricity, post, all has to be taken to the boat or generated on-board, likewise all that leaves the house, rubbish, sewage, has to be carried away.  In both cases by the boater.  Not generally a problem in the summer, but very very different in the winter.

There are many more details that you as a "new to boating" person need to be aware of, but for now I'll stop.

 

Bod.

P.s.

This forum has a fantastic range of knowledge, that most members willingly share, if you are asked a question, it will be to clarify what they need to know, in order to give correct advice.

Also please come back regularly, some members are very quick to join a topic, less tham 5 minutes is not unknown.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

@Bod suggested this topic be made a sticky, which has been done. An excellent idea for a topic and thanks for starting it. Surprised this hasn't been done before, since it comes up so often.

Jen

[LadyG]

I find that my energy costs are much less than those who live in a house, a good conventional boat should be insulated, and have a solid fuel stove plus diesel, I think the cost of heating,  cooking, and lighting is about £200 pcm for six winter months, and £20 pcm in summer.

Having to generate your own electricity makes you careful. I still see liveaboard boats without solar panels, "hair shirt mentality"?

I don't pay Council Tax, or mooring fee at the moment. A Residential mooring with shore power would alter the costs significantly, as one would expect.

Edited December 20, 2023 by LadyG

[MtB]

Another (related) canard that crops up regularly and needs slaughtering is moving onto a boat in order to live a more 'ecological' lifestyle.

 

Living on a boat tends to be more fuel-intensive and gives you a bigger 'carbon footprint' than living in a similarly compact, modern and efficiently insulated house or flat. This is very much a generalisation with exceptions, but it is broadly true. 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

39 minutes ago, Bod said:

Living on a boat, on a permanent mooring needs Planning Permission from the local council, so true residential moorings are both rare and expensive, especially in towns.

You will also be liable for council tax on a residential mooring, which is another expense.

Other mooring sites for leisure purposes may, or may not turn a blind eye on you living there full time. Ask the question, are there any restrictions on the number of nights I can stay on board there, rather than if they allow residential use, as if asked about residential use, most will say no. On this type of mooring, you will have no security of tenure and can be told to leave at a moments notice. There may be extra charges for extensive use of the facilities.

[Tony Brooks]

16 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I find that my energy costs are much less than those who live in a house, a good conventional boat should be insulated, and have a solid fuel stove plus diesel, I think the cost of heating,  cooking, and lighting is about £200 pcm for six winter months, and £20 pcm in summer.

Having to generate your own electricity makes you careful. I still see liveaboard boats without solar panels, "hair shirt mentality"?

I don't pay Council Tax, or mooring feed. A Residential mooring with shore power would alter the costs significantly, as one would expect.

 

But you CC within CaRT guidelines (mainly). The OP needs to be in a specific area. Residential moorings WILL attract council tax, be it billed by the council or bound up in the mooring fee.

[MtB]

29 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I still see liveaboard boats without solar panels, "hair shirt mentality"?

 

This used to puzzle me too, until I realised that these also tend to be the boats that cruise every day (rather than the one inch a fortnight actually required by CRT).

 

Boats actually constantly cruising don't need solar when the engine runs for hours every day, keeping the batts nicely charged. 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by MtB
Missing word!

[IanD]

50 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

This used to puzzle me too, until I realised that these also tend to be the boats that cruise every day (rather than the one inch a fortnight actually required by CRT).

 

Boats actually constantly cruising don't need solar when the engine runs for hours every day, keeping the batts nicely charged. 

 

 

I'd be very surprised if anyone boats for several hours a day every day they're on the boat for long periods; without solar, if you stop for more than a day or so (or even one day, depending on battery size and power use) you'll have to run a generator or the engine for some time, especially with LA batteries.

 

Solar panels and MPPT controllers are so cheap nowadays I'm surprised there are still boats without them -- unless looking "traditional" is of overriding importance...

Edited December 20, 2023 by IanD

[magnetman]

I've always had solar panels on my boats since 1995 (they were a bit more expensive then!) but to be fair some people do use very little power.

If I was to engage in intensive cruising again and had a 35ft boat with a decent engine and alternator(s) I reckon I could easily manage without solar power. I don't use a fridge because shops have fridges anyway and I shop every day. 

 

100Ah of lithium cabin batteries would be enough. 

 

I would still have solar but not much if the Boat was being used intensively. 

 

 

 

[MtB]

34 minutes ago, IanD said:

Solar panels and MPPT controllers are so cheap nowadays I'm surprised there are still boats without them -- unless looking "traditional" is of overriding importance...

 

You're obviously not looking properly! I'd say 50% of boats around here have no solar and I doubt it is much different where you are. The ones around here with no solar tend to be the scruffy ones that look as though no money is spent on them ever, so I doubt they are too bothered about the niceties of 'looking traditional', whatever that means. 

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

In my opinion, if you are looking at boat living as an escape from the bonkers costs of housing, either rent, or buy, then you will be disappointed. The best reason to live on a boat is because you want to live on a boat.

It helps to be handy, as boats need considerable maintenance to keep them in good condition. Paying some one else to do the work will increase your costs considerably, but if you are able to do your own engine servicing, for example, you can save £. DIY skills in plumbing, electrics, woodwork, painting and metal bashing help too. Boat electrics and plumbing are not the same as the house versions; especially boat electrics.

If you enjoy camping, then you'll probably like boat living. At its best, boating becomes like posh glamping, but it isn't going to be like living in a modern house, or staying at a 5* hotel.

It will be hard to have all the 21st century electrical mod-cons on board. Hair dryers, straighteners, tumble driers, or anything else that uses a lot of electrical power will be tricky to supply with the juice they need. Any energy taken from the batteries has to be replaced.

[magnetman]

I agree with this. Financial constraints can masquerade as a Good Reason to get a Boat. It actually isn't a Good Reason. It is very tempting to think it is. 

 

The first line of the other thread references rent and mortgages. 

 

I would say you need to be someone who actually wants to live in a Boat, or put it another way would -prefer- this option even if it were not for the financial constraints. 

 

And be very careful about things like youtube videos because generally the only reason people make these is to attempt to get adclick revenue. 

 

 

 

 

 

There will probably be a bias towards people saying its all wonderful because if they tell the other side people probably won't watch it. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Regular upkeep on a boat, especially away from a Marina requires time that has to be fitted in with work, shopping and all the other things you need to do. Water filling, waste and rubbish emptying, battery charging, getting diesel, coal, gas, all take time and can't be put off. The difficulties vary depending on where you are currently moored. In some places there will be a queue at the nearest water point and you'll need to be there for however long it needs to take your turn. If you forget to order from a fuel boat, it could be a few weeks before it next goes by.

[magnetman]

 

 

There might be no signal on the telly. 

 

Internet might be dodgy. 

 

Its terrible ! 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

And be very careful about things like youtube videos because generally the only reason people make these is to attempt to get adclick revenue.

There will probably be a bias towards people saying its all wonderful because if they tell the other side people probably won't watch it. 

Absolutely. They don't show slogging back along a muddy tow path in the dark and rain after a long day at work, to find that the water pump is leaking and the cabin bilge is now full of water, for example.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

There might be no signal on the telly. 

 

Telly? Who on a boat has time to watch telly?

 

Surely we spend all our spare time servicing the engine, fixing the constant window and shower leaks and paint/fighting the rust! 

 

 

(Just adding some balance to the glossy youtube images.)

 

 

 

 

[IanD]

16 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

You're obviously not looking properly! I'd say 50% of boats around here have no solar and I doubt it is much different where you are. The ones around here with no solar tend to be the scruffy ones that look as though no money is spent on them ever, so I doubt they are too bothered about the niceties of 'looking traditional', whatever that means. 

 

 

I didn't say most had them -- though round here I'm pretty sure the majority do, even the scruffy ones -- but just that I was surprised they didn't.

 

I meant either boats like President or other trad boats or modern replicas where the boater doesn't want solar panels spoiling the traditional look -- which is perfectly understandable if that's what matters to you 🙂

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I meant either boats like President or other trad boats or modern replicas where the boater doesn't want solar panels spoiling the traditional look -- which is perfectly understandable if that's what matters to you 🙂

 

I'm not sure why you keep digging at me like this. It doesn't matter to me. My S&L tug has a solar panel on the roof. So does my Orion tug built in year 2000.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm not sure why you keep digging at me like this. It doesn't matter to me. My S&L tug has a solar panel on the roof. So does my Orion tug built in year 2000.

 

I'm not digging at anyone -- if someone would rather not have solar panels because of how they look (big flat panels are pretty ugly...) that's entirely their decision, I'm not criticising them. It's not what matters to me, but then it's not my boat, it's yours... 🙂

 

Semi-flexible ones like I've got are much less visually obtrusive but also several times more expensive and need expert fitting, so I can't see most boaters installing these on existing boats -- on a new build they might add one percent or so to the total cost which is lost in the noise...

Edited December 20, 2023 by IanD

[haggis]

We don't have fixed solar panels on kelpie and we have never felt the need for them. Nor to we have lithium batteries. We can moor up for a day or so without running our engine and if we are moored for longer (at a canal event) Iain puts a solar panel on the roof. I realise we are "old hat" but we don't see the need to install something we don't need.

[Col_T]

We have about 350W of Solar to keep the batteries topped up over winter.

When we go boating, we move every day, for a minimum of 2 hours, to ensure the batteries have regained all / most of their charge and to get hot water. If the weather is bad enough that we stay put, we run the engine for a minimum of an hour to get hot water.

I’m not totally sure that the panels were the best thing I ever did for the boat, to be honest.

[dmr]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

You're obviously not looking properly! I'd say 50% of boats around here have no solar and I doubt it is much different where you are. The ones around here with no solar tend to be the scruffy ones that look as though no money is spent on them ever, so I doubt they are too bothered about the niceties of 'looking traditional', whatever that means. 

 

 

We have two very small panels, but "looking traditional" and having good access to the roof for those difficult boating situations is high on my list.

In summer we can go three days without running the engine, only two in winter (or one when its really cold).

Investing in a big lithium bank would make more sense to me than getting lots of solar, in summer we rarely stop still for more than three or four days and in winter solar does not work so well.

Hot water is the difficult one to solve unless you have an instantaneous gas boiler.

Solar is popular because lots of boats don't do much boating.

2 hours ago, magnetman said:

I agree with this. Financial constraints can masquerade as a Good Reason to get a Boat. It actually isn't a Good Reason. It is very tempting to think it is. 

 

The first line of the other thread references rent and mortgages. 

 

I would say you need to be someone who actually wants to live in a Boat, or put it another way would -prefer- this option even if it were not for the financial constraints. 

 

And be very careful about things like youtube videos because generally the only reason people make these is to attempt to get adclick revenue. 

 

 

 

 

 

There will probably be a bias towards people saying its all wonderful because if they tell the other side people probably won't watch it. 

I am increasing of the cynical view that most (not all) Youtube stuff is about the vain people who make them, any boating content is really just an excuse to make another video about themselves, and so the content is very much, "I did this, it works really well, aren't I a wonderful and clever person".

I suspect you can spot the good YouTubes by the ratio of footage about the subject to footage of the person concerned.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

I suspect you can spot the good YouTubes by the ratio of footage about the subject to footage of the person concerned.

Or inversely proportional to the number of baseball caps being worn. 🧢

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

I find that my energy costs are much less than those who live in a house, a good conventional boat should be insulated, and have a solid fuel stove plus diesel, 

 

You're not comparing like for like. If you compare in terms of cubic area heated I think you'll probably find boats are more expensive to heat than houses or flats. You need to rid yourself of the mindset that insulation is binary - as in either something is insulated or it isn't. That's not how it works. Insulation varies. An inch of sprayfoam or polystyrene or a few inches of rockwool isn't very much inside an exposed steel shell even compared to some of the oldest and most poorly insulated houses and certainly not compared to modern building insulation standards. 

1 hour ago, Col_T said:

I’m not totally sure that the panels were the best thing I ever did for the boat, to be honest.

 

I installed 910w of panels just over a year ago and I'm amazed at how well they work. I'm completely off grid over summer (liveaboard) and over the first winter I estimate they cut my shore power bill by about 75%. I think a lot depends on the installation. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by blackrose

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Absolutely. They don't show slogging back along a muddy tow path in the dark and rain after a long day at work, to find that the water pump is leaking and the cabin bilge is now full of water, for example.

Neither of those things have happened to me, yet...

I enjoy some of the old YouTube radio, the modern ones, well a bit variable...

I see some of these use Click bait "swallowed by a whale", these are to be avoided 

Folks like CHG are interesting, and he has  made money from it, so what, its not my money,  or yours.

Edited December 20, 2023 by LadyG