Thinking about buying a boat

[magnetman]

You'll always get this kind of response on here. Its normal.

 

A lot of people on here do live on Boats and know about it. Obviously there will be a bit of a 'close the door' attitude but there will also be some realism around what is involved.

 

The lavatory is the main thing. Due to gravity and not being allowed to discharge to the canal it is actually quite an interesting technical problem.

 

Most land based dwellings have lavatories where the waste is discharged into a sewer. This doesn't happen on most Boats so you do have to be prepared to deal with the waste at a later stage. A lot of people don't want to do this.

 

I've never been in a marina but it seems to me that a marina mooring is a bit unsatisfactory in the lavatory department because you won't have a pump to evacuate contents beside the Boat. So you will probably need to move the Boat or use a suitcase arrangement for holding the feces and associated liquids which you then have to carry or cart to a disposal station.

 

You can't misunderestimate the importance of lavatory arrangements. Its very easy to take it for granted when you do your thing, read a comic or play with the phone press a button down then its gone.

 

On a Boat its a completely different story and there will be snake oil salesmen everywhere trying to convince you that you can grow strawberries in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, Isher1883 said:

I'll just not bother, if that makes people happy. Who'd have thought asking a question about canal boats on a canal boat forum would cause such an inconvenience to people. I just go for it on my own. Have a nice life people 🤘

You have had some very good advice on here. If you go on a group on Facebook they will all tell you how wonderful it is, the best thing that ever happened to them, on here they will tell you both sides, they will question why you are doing what you are doing. There are no rose tinted glasses here. Yes there will be some crap in some posts but if you stick around, read it and decide what is useful and what is bulls**t at the end of the day you will buy a boat and enjoy the life or realise its not for you.

[Isher1883]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

You have had some very good advice on here. If you go on a group on Facebook they will all tell you how wonderful it is, the best thing that ever happened to them, on here they will tell you both sides, they will question why you are doing what you are doing. There are no rose tinted glasses here. Yes there will be some crap in some posts but if you stick around, read it and decide what is useful and what is bulls**t at the end of the day you will buy a boat and enjoy the life or realise its not for you.

Very true I understand it's not cheap and potential issues that could arise but the idea of it is appealing I'm very hands on I know my stuff and I don't like the idea of a house. I'm not just thinking about doing it because rent is so expensive I'd rather put that money into looking after something that is mine. And I'd like a more permanent mooring simply because I have very good job with a good salary and I don't want to give that up.

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

You'll always get this kind of response on here. Its normal.

 

A lot of people on here do live on Boats and know about it. Obviously there will be a bit of a 'close the door' attitude but there will also be some realism around what is involved.

 

The lavatory is the main thing. Due to gravity and not being allowed to discharge to the canal it is actually quite an interesting technical problem.

 

Most land based dwellings have lavatories where the waste is discharged into a sewer. This doesn't happen on most Boats so you do have to be prepared to deal with the waste at a later stage. A lot of people don't want to do this.

 

I've never been in a marina but it seems to me that a marina mooring is a bit unsatisfactory in the lavatory department because you won't have a pump to evacuate contents beside the Boat. So you will probably need to move the Boat or use a suitcase arrangement for holding the feces and associated liquids which you then have to carry or cart to a disposal station.

 

You can't misunderestimate the importance of lavatory arrangements. Its very easy to take it for granted when you do your thing, read a comic or play with the phone press a button down then its gone.

 

On a Boat its a completely different story and there will be snake oil salesmen everywhere trying to convince you that you can grow strawberries in it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It says they have pump out at that Bailey's trading post and disposal at the marina itself. But yes it's definitely an interesting aspect.

[magnetman]

 

If you have a good job and salary is it not possible to get into the housing market?

 

I never did this myself due to very unusual circumstances but it does seem relatively wise given that ageing will take place.

 

I've been on Boats since I was 20 (now 49 and counting) so I am sort of 'into it' and we don't know how old you are but if you are accustomed to living in houses it might be a bit of a dodgy move and certainly financially very risky to get involved with Boats.

 

Obviously it is great and I'm happy on a very small Boat (10 sqaure metres is fine with me if properly laid out) but this can come as a bit of a shock if you are used to having space.

 

If you get a larger wide beam Boat you will probably have to pay more mooring fees and at the end of the day you never get any actual security apart from that of being surrounded by an insulated steel box. You aren't really 'allowed' to be anywhere.

 

I'm not trying to be discouraging just realistic.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by magnetman
typo

[Guest]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

If you have a good job and salary is it not possible to get into the housing market?

 

I never did this myself due to very unusual circumstances but it does seem relatively wise given that ageing will take place.

 

I've been on Boats since I was 20 (now 49 and counting) so I am sort of 'into it' and we don't know how old you are but if you are accustomed to living in houses it might be a bit of a dodgy move and certainly financially very risky to get involved with Boats.

 

Obviously it is great and I'm happy on a very small boat (10 sqaure metres is fine with me if properly laid out) but this can come as a bit of a shocl if you are used to having space.

 

If you get a larger wide beam boat you will probably have to pay more mooring fees and at the end of the day you never get any actual security apart from tht of being surrounded by an insulated steel box. You aren't really 'allowed' to be anywhere.

 

I'm not trying to be discouraging just realistic.

 

 

 

 

 

I have no personal knowledge of property prices in the North West but we watched a TV programme the other day and I was gobsmacked at the price of property in and around Manchester. Not quite at London levels but a decent property looked out of reach to folk even on a 'decent' salary.

[Isher1883]

My flat at the minute is actually smaller than a 50ft narrow boat in sq ft so the space for me is defo not a problem. And buying a house just doesn't appeal to me. I suppose the thought of having a house and kids, paying a mortgage until I'm 70 'the grown up way' as some people put it, just doesnt appeal to me. 

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, Isher1883 said:

Very true I understand it's not cheap and potential issues that could arise but the idea of it is appealing I'm very hands on I know my stuff and I don't like the idea of a house. I'm not just thinking about doing it because rent is so expensive I'd rather put that money into looking after something that is mine. And I'd like a more permanent mooring simply because I have very good job with a good salary and I don't want to give that up.

 

In that case it sounds as if you will be able to afford a residential mooring if/when you find one and until then probably keep your head down on a leisure mooring. A marina residential mooring will probably have electricity laid on and probably a close by water tap, plus sewage and refuse disposal close by. That makes it all the more doable. Marina moorings can feel claustrophobic, with the next boat being only a foot away from you, but I liked the opportunity to watch the world go by and what other boaters were doing.

[magnetman]

5 minutes ago, Isher1883 said:

My flat at the minute is actually smaller than a 50ft narrow boat in sq ft so the space for me is defo not a problem. And buying a house just doesn't appeal to me. I suppose the thought of having a house and kids, paying a mortgage until I'm 70 'the grown up way' as some people put it, just doesnt appeal to me. 

 

You sound like an ideal candidate !

 

 

 

 

 

Have you ever thought about getting a Boat?

Edited December 18, 2023 by magnetman

[Barneyp]

20 minutes ago, Isher1883 said:

Very true I understand it's not cheap and potential issues that could arise but the idea of it is appealing I'm very hands on I know my stuff and I don't like the idea of a house. I'm not just thinking about doing it because rent is so expensive I'd rather put that money into looking after something that is mine. ...

If you get a mortgage you are putting your money into something that is yours, and is growing in value.

If you get a boat you will be putting your money onto something that is decreasing in value.

You will have to pay mooring and licence fees which are dead money just like rent on a flat or house.

And the boat will depreciate in value no matter how much maintenance you do.

 

If you like boats and want to live on the water- get a boat.

If you want a cheap place to live and don't mind the wet and cold - maybe get an old boat.

If you want somewhere sensible to live -  get a flat or house

If you want somewhere sensible to live and to look after your money - save a deposit and buy a flat or house.

 

Seriously, if you think you want to live on a boat - hire one for a fortnight in January or February, get it from the nearest hire company to where you work, tie up near where you want to moor and see what it's like for real. If you like it buy a boat, if not you've saved a lot of hassle and probably several thousand pounds. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Barneyp

[dmr]

The best approach is to buy a house then rent it out to somebody who will effectively pay the mortgage for you, then buy a boat and live on it, moving as much as you can.

I realise it is not easy to raise the money to get a boat and a house, but if you can then do it.

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, Isher1883 said:

With rent so expensive and mortgages through the roof me and my partner are thinking about buying a boat to live on full time.

 

 

Have you discussed the lavatory arrangements with the partner?

 

You both have to be into this 110 percent otherwise you could end up with relationship problems. Vast numbers of boats are bought and sold solely due to relationship problems. It is a known issue which makes boat brokers a lot of money.

 

 

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, phillarrow said:

It's such a shame that this forum puts all of its posts in one place, thus forcing long-standing members to work hard to find the threads they are interested in engaging with.

 

It would be so much better if they would split the forum into different sections based on topic titles. They could even have a specific section for those of us who are new or prospective boaters. They could even call it something like, oh I don't know, "New to Boating", for example. This would mean that older/grumpier members wouldn't be forced against their will to read the same old questions posed by inexperienced or new members.

 

I might suggest this to the forum Gods. I think it would help make it better for new and old/grumpy alike. 😉

So who is going to give the advice if the questions etc are only read by newbies?

[ditchcrawler]

I am not a live aboard and I moor my boat in a reasonably low end marina. I would say my standing cost is about £5000 per year, that is before I even visit the boat. A residential mooring would probably cost £3000 a year more, then electricity, gas, coal for heating and diesel to get to the pumpout which will probably cost £20 a time.

[phillarrow]

4 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So who is going to give the advice if the questions etc are only read by newbies?

I think you're very much missing the point!

 

If answering the repeated questions of newbies is something that certain people find tedious, nobody forces them to read this section. They can leave it to the more generous/patient/magnanimous old hats.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So who is going to give the advice if the questions etc are only read by newbies?

 

And now you too....

[john.k]

Guy I used to work with said "I dont need a toilet at home,cause I always go at work on the bosses time".............or as George Clark says "What an amazing space."

[MtB]

57 minutes ago, Isher1883 said:

My flat at the minute is actually smaller than a 50ft narrow boat in sq ft so the space for me is defo not a problem. And buying a house just doesn't appeal to me. I suppose the thought of having a house and kids, paying a mortgage until I'm 70 'the grown up way' as some people put it, just doesnt appeal to me. 

 

Welcome to the forum, as Tracey forgot to say that. 

 

No-one so far appears to have really taken on board that you are renting at the moment. May I ask what geographical area you are renting in? Manc I would imagine? If so, for a tiny hovel I guess you are currently shelling out about £10k a year on rent and CT, in which case living on a boat will cost you about the same once you finance the boat purchase.

 

I too started on boats for financial reasons. Couldn't get a mortgage so bought a boat instead. And it all went downhill from there. That was back in 1977. Now I have the boats and a hovel on the bank too. It all worked out just fine and it probably will for you too. 

 

[RichM]

I'd also recommend considering your options if you pursue this and later decide it's not for you. - Would it be easy to get back on the housing ladder again? If not, it's potentially a big risk.

 

1 hour ago, dmr said:

The best approach is to buy a house then rent it out to somebody who will effectively pay the mortgage for you, then buy a boat and live on it, moving as much as you can.

I realise it is not easy to raise the money to get a boat and a house, but if you can then do it.

 

Good advice.

 

For me, not having a "fixed abode" local to my boat was a real issue, making it more difficult to access service and receive post etc. Having a physical address may make life much easier. 

 

 

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, RichM said:

I'd also recommend considering your options if you pursue this and later decide it's not for you. - Would it be easy to get back on the housing ladder again? If not, it's potentially a big risk.

 

Um... the OP is not on "the housing ladder" in the first place, being a renter.

 

 

[Bod]

4 hours ago, Isher1883 said:

With rent so expensive and mortgages through the roof me and my partner are thinking about buying a boat to live on full time. How ever we wouldn't be cruising continuously it would just be our home and still be working around south Manchester. I think Victoria pit would be an ideal location but I've read mooring have to be residential to live there permanently. Does anyone know if this is the case? And does anyone know if there are any residential moorings near Stockport?

Most of Manchester's canals are I believe, owned and run by a company, Peel Holdings, and have different rules and expectations than the Canal and Rivers Trust (C&RT) who run the vast majority of the UK canals.

Dependant on where you intend to moore there may be different requirements and costs.

 

Bod

 

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Bod said:

Most of Manchester's canals are I believe, owned and run by a company, Peel Holdings, and have different rules and expectations than the Canal and Rivers Trust (C&RT) who run the vast majority of the UK canals.

Dependant on where you intend to moore there may be different requirements and costs.

 

Bod

 

 

A very good point. 

 

Peel Holdings have a reputation for not taking all the crap from entitled CMers that CRT happily put up with. 

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

[David Mack]

55 minutes ago, Bod said:

Most of Manchester's canals are I believe, owned and run by a company, Peel Holdings, and have different rules and expectations than the Canal and Rivers Trust (C&RT) who run the vast majority of the UK canals.

Dependant on where you intend to moore there may be different requirements and costs.

 

Bod

 

Not really 'most'. Peel run the Bridgewater Canal which runs west (Main line) and northwest (Leigh branch) from the city centre The OP is looking at something in the South Manchester/ Stockport area, and that is all CRT waters - Ashton, Peak Forest and Macclesfield canals (with Huddersfield and Rochdale Canals heading east).

 

But you are right about moorings. There are limited mooring locations on the Bridgewater Canal (listed on their website), and you have to have a mooring to get a licence (other than for a short term transit). You cannot 'continuously cruise' on the Bridgewater.

4 hours ago, Isher1883 said:

Thanks for your reply no need for the sarcasm. Was just asking a question. I've read the other threads and as someone who is new to it found it a little confusing. 

 

@Isher1883, just for context this forum regularly gets queries like yours from potential newbie boat dwellers. A few can give good reasons why they want to do it, and have clearly researched the main issues involved, and come here with specific questions. Others are just starry-eyed wannabes who've seen rose-tinted pictures of life afloat on Youtube/Tik Tok/Instagram/newspaper and magazine articles etc. but who have no real clue as to what is involved. And many of those rapidly lose interest when faced with the realities of boat life - either complying with CRT's 'continuous cruiser' requirements or having to live 'below the radar' on a leisure mooring, or paying through the nose for an official residential mooring (if you can find one), living in a small space with no mains services, getting gas, water, solid fuel and diesel to the boat, emptying the toilet (and getting more intimate with your bodily waste than you ever have to in a house), getting to and from work in the winter when the towpath is unlit and muddy at both ends of the day, dealing with all the things that can go wrong on a boat, especially a cheap boat not in the best of condition... And much the biggest issue for those without a permanent mooring with a mains supply, generating enough electricity to supply even basic liveaboard needs without knackering your batteries in short order. Solar helps in summer, but in winter that usually requires hours of running your main engine or a generator, which you are only allowed to run between 8 am and 8 pm I.e. almost all the hours most people who have to earn a living are away from the boat.

So it's not really surprising that some forum members' initial reaction is "Oh no, not another one..."

If you are serious about this, ignore such responses, don't lose your temper with people whose advice may not be to your liking, and if people ask follow-on questions to your questions, answer as well as you can. That way people can tailor their advice to the things you really do need to understand (which won't always be the things you think you need to know).

[john.k]

I reject your reality and substitute my own!

[blackrose]

6 hours ago, dmr said:

If you factor in the ever increasing value of houses then living on a boat is actually more expensive than living in bricks (but cheaper than renting).

Boat living has many big disadvantages but for most of us this is offset by the pleasure of going boating. Static living, especially in a marina, can be the worse of both worlds though a few people get on ok with it.

 

Good point. So if you're only moving onto a boat for financial reasons you may end up disappointed. You've got to like boats and being on the water all year round. That's the added value. As MtB alludes to, some people do it primarily for financial reasons and end up loving it, but on the other hand many others do not. In my experience of seeing couples on boats it's usually the woman that gets p*ssed off with it after a couple of years, while the guy is still enjoying it but is forced back into a house or flat. 

 

 

6 hours ago, dmr said:

 

 

 

Isher1883, have a look at this recent thread if you haven't seen it already. It explains the difference between a residential mooring and living onboard unofficially on a long term mooring. There are hundreds of similar threads in the archives 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by blackrose

[DandV]

1 hour ago, Isher1883 said:

My flat at the minute is actually smaller than a 50ft narrow boat in sq ft so the space for me is defo not a problem. And buying a house just doesn't appeal to me. I suppose the thought of having a house and kids, paying a mortgage until I'm 70 'the grown up way' as some people put it, just doesnt appeal to me. 

A rural mooring is delightful. A view outside on both sides. And any neighbours are located beyond the narrow ends of the boat.

 

Marina moorings can be quite claustrophobic.

Views from near all of the windows are of neighbours boats just a very few feet away, and vica versa. They are similarly close to seeing you, perhaps too much of you for either of your likings.

But you own your lodgings which is an undoubted advantage over renting your dwelling.

 

The advice to go exploring and talk to those doing what you think would work for you, is incredibly sound.