Solid Fuel Not Getting Hot?

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That should keep the fire burning and the flue clear.

I spose its better than an under draft.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Its a wood burner, hence the teeth in the front to stop logs rolling out. The flue is atrocious, it gas vent flue pipes badly joined together. 

It is not designed to burn  solid smokeless fuel. Running with the door open and no CO alarm you are going to be a fatality soon.

 

I would point out that my Hunter Hawk DUAL fuel stove has very similar teeth on the front of the fire bars, so I don't think the teeth can be taken to mean it is just a wood burning stove. My fire bars can slide to either open or close the holes in the fire bars, so closed for wood, and open for solid fuel. If the OPs grate has slots or holes in it, then I would suggest it is a solid fuel stove.

[bizzard]

Most of the cheep but velly glood Chinese multi fool stroves hav them two as wel

[magnetman]

Looking at the way its made it would be quite easy to ship several of them on a pallet in non welded kit form. The front/sides would all slot together in a group and the top/back is just flat plates.  Then get someone in Czech republic to weld them together and ship them as complete units in yerp. 

 

 

[system 4-50]

I'd like to point out the distinction bewteen "coal" and "smokeless fuel", so I will.

This taken from Wiki:

"Smokeless fuels serve as a potential replacement for fuels such as coal, which produce smoke upon combustion. Examples of smokeless fuels are anthracite, coke, charcoal and hexamine fuel tablets. Smoke-free carbonaceous fuels for domestic use are usually supplied in the form of standard pillow-shaped briquettes." 

Coal is quite different from Smokeless Fuel.

[Mad Harold]

When I had my narrowboat I too had difficulty keeping it warm when the temperature was close to zero.

The previous owner had a refit, new flooring, new faced ply lining.

It was only when I removed some of the lining to deal with a leaking window, I found no insulation at all behind the ply!  Obviously a cheap and cheerful fit out!

Would it be worth checking your boat's insulation?  (or lack of it)

[magnetman]

19 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I'd like to point out the distinction bewteen "coal" and "smokeless fuel", so I will.

This taken from Wiki:

"Smokeless fuels serve as a potential replacement for fuels such as coal, which produce smoke upon combustion. Examples of smokeless fuels are anthracite, coke, charcoal and hexamine fuel tablets. Smoke-free carbonaceous fuels for domestic use are usually supplied in the form of standard pillow-shaped briquettes." 

Coal is quite different from Smokeless Fuel.

On the other hand Homefire Ovals may consist of up to 17% Bituminous coal. 

 

Manufacturer	CPL Fuels Ireland, Foynes Briquetting Works, Foynes Port, Foynes, Co. Limerick, Ireland
(a)	comprise anthracite fines (as to approximately 50 to 75% of the total weight), petroleum coke (as to approximately 20 to 45% of the total weight), bituminous coal (as to approximately 5 to 17% of the total weight) and an organic binder or, molasses and acid binder (as to the remaining weight)

 

AND 

 

anthracite

/ˈanθrəsʌɪt/

 

noun

1. coal of a hard variety that contains relatively pure carbon and burns with little flame and smoke.

 

coke¹

/kəʊk/

 

See definitions in:

All

Chemistry

Drink

noun

1. a solid fuel made by heating coal in the absence of air so that the volatile components are driven off.

So to be accurate a briquetted fuel which does not have petcoke in it is in fact coal. 

 

 

 

 

'House coal' is more correctly called Bituminous Coal. 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

I am concerned about the OP's lack of comment of late, has he succumbed already?

[magnetman]

supertherm is DEFINITELY COAL. 

Manufacturer	Coal Products Limited at Immingham Briquetting Works, Immingham, North East Lincolnshire
(a)	comprise a blend (in the proportion of 19:1 by weight) of anthracite and medium volatile coal (as to approximately 93% of the total weight) and cold-setting organic binder or a molasses and phosphoric acid binder (as to the remaining weight)

 

 

Fuel ingredients from defra https://smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/fuels.php?country=england

[Alan de Enfield]

32 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I'd like to point out the distinction bewteen "coal" and "smokeless fuel", so I will.

This taken from Wiki:

"Smokeless fuels serve as a potential replacement for fuels such as coal, which produce smoke upon combustion. Examples of smokeless fuels are anthracite, coke, charcoal and hexamine fuel tablets. Smoke-free carbonaceous fuels for domestic use are usually supplied in the form of standard pillow-shaped briquettes." 

Coal is quite different from Smokeless Fuel.

 

Hexamine tablets are what the Army provides in their 'emergency' pocket-cookers.

Nasty smell, and covers the bottom of your cans / mug in a thick greasy soot, It would take us ages to get them clean.

Awful stuff and even the army gives warnings that it should only be used in a ventilated area (ie outdoors)

 

 

Hexamine has a similar energy to anthracite, but way less than LPG, or petrol/diesel.

 

Hexamine = 8 Wh / gram

Chafing Gel = 7.44 Wh / gram

Propane LPG = 13.6Wh / gram

Mixed Camping Gas = 14.2 Wh / gram

Seasoned Dry Wood = 4.2 Wh / gram

Methylated Spirit = 7.22 Wh/Gram

Petrol / Diesel = 12.5Wh / gram

Anthracite = 8.6 Wh / gram

Edited December 2, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[nealeST]

16 hours ago, Jennarasion said:

usually keep the door open as its the only way to feel any heat at all. When I leave the room I close the door, and it might as well not be lit at all.

If you are using Morso stove you need to keep the door shut once lit. You are going around in a circle with it open and it’s consuming far too much fuel. The stove is designed to have the door shut and the vent only partially open when it’s underway. You can control the draw of the air into the fire by just a quarter of a turn. The top vent is rarely open. On the stove I had the thread was deliberately short only allowing for a slight opening. Use lots of kindling…stack it like a 'Jenga’ house and light scrunched newspaper. (3 Sheets). Let the kindling burn as fierce as possible and catch it once you have a really nice hot glow and knock it down. Now add your wood and coal…it should be really hot in there. You will have lit the kindling by having the door open a crack, no more than half an inch. The catch allows you to keep the door ajar. The kindling will roar whilst you have the door ajar and you are aiming for max heat. I always had fire brick in my Morso on the back and sides. It holds the heat and keeps the stove very hot once it’s going. I have had another variety of cast iron stove without fire brick…a lot more hungry for fuel. It takes a while for the stove to get to its working temp so be patient. Once it’s set up you will be able to keep it going constantly and maintain the fire by careful adjustment to the bottom vent. 
 

surely someone at the marina can help you out?  
 

if it’s a Morso I can promise you people in Sweden heat the whole of the downstairs of a 70 sq metre timber clad house with these stoves…in minus 15-20 degs. it’s definitely up to the job.

 

your chimney should be clean. I’m sceptical about wood burning on boats. You need a lot of it and ideally it should be dry stored for a year before you burn it….you have space for that on a boat? The stuff they sell in plastic bags in petrol stations here in the UK is rubbish. If it’s been kiln dried the energy has been sucked out if it. It’s purely for effect…not much heat to be had. 
 

sorry for the long reply and better luck with your heating.

Edited December 2, 2023 by nealeST
Typos

[magnetman]

It doesn't look like a Morso fire. 

[rusty69]

Doesn't look like either of our morsos

Looks lesso morso 

[nealeST]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Doesn't look like either of our morsos

Looks lesso morso 

Late to the thread, missed the photos. It’s not a Morso. Serious amount of ash going on there!

[magnetman]

17 hours ago, Jennarasion said:

Hi guys,

 

Its my first winter aboard! Im currently in a marina, and luckily they supply logs, coal, and kindling, straight to my deck. Only problem is, I'm still freezing. (The logs aren't too bad, but I'm struggling with the coal!)

 

At first, I thought it was because I didn't have those stovetop fans to circulate the hot air. I've now bought two, and they have the addition of a thermometer on them. Since getting them around two weeks ago, I was only able to get into the "optimal performance" range once - around 200C. I was burning both logs and coal. Otherwise, I'm stuck at a building range (around 100C).

 

Is there something I'm doing wrong? Could it be the type of coal? Am I building the fire incorrectly? (As mentioned, I havent been able to get to the optimal performance range again, and I'm pretty sure that I haven't changed anything about that set up.

 

A lot of my preboat research said that it was usually too hot due to the fires in winter, please let me in on the secret 🥶

 

are you still with us? 

At least being in a marina probably means mains electric so a fan heater can be used in extremis. 

[Jerra]

23 minutes ago, nealeST said:

The stuff they sell in plastic bags in petrol stations here in the UK is rubbish. If it’s been kiln dried the energy has been sucked out if it. It’s purely for effect…not much heat to be had. 

Being scientifically challenged can you explain please how kiln drying "sucks energy" out of wood, please.

[magnetman]

I'd also like to know..

 

The reason for low heat from crap logs is to do with which variety of tree they come from rather than the way they are dried. 

 

For 

example I am burning hawthorn and some ash today. Both high grade firewoods. If a bag is filled with Cherry and Alder on the other hand the heating effect will be significantly less. 

 

https://www.stovesonline.co.uk/woodburning_chart.html

 

I would be unsurprised if alder found its way into cheap firewood supplies.

Edited December 2, 2023 by magnetman
typos

[rusty69]

We used to burn kiln dried oak on our Morso. Bloody gorgeous it was. 

[Jerra]

3 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'd also like to know..

 

The reason for low heat from crap logs is to do with which variety of tree they come from rather than the way they are dried. 

 

For 

example I am burning hawthorn and some ash today. Both high grade firewoods. It a bag is filled with Cheery and Alder on the other hand the heating effect will be significantly less. 

 

https://www.stovesonline.co.uk/woodburning_chart.html

 

I would be unsurprised if alder found its way into cheap firewood supplies.

After seeing the statement I did a little googling and came up  with this:

 

Kiln dried firewood will be dried right through, but air-dried logs can have varying water levels. Your kiln dried logs are guaranteed to burn and will be consistently dry. While the cost will be slightly higher than seasoned logs, you can be sure that your logs will light quickly and easily with kiln dried. With a low moisture content (less than 20 percent), your kiln dried wood can produce up to 30% more heat per kilogram, ultimately making the benefits economical.

 

My bold.

[Tony Brooks]

Most garage bags of logs feel very light so the wood is not that dense, that means less combustible material. I think all the dense stuff goes to log merchants and the crap goes into "garage" bags.

 

 I think the reason damp wood produces less heat is that a lot of energy is wasted converting the water in the logs to steam.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[magnetman]

Indeed but a kiln dried piece of low energy content wood like alder or willow will seem crap compared to a naturally seasoned piece of oak or ash the same size. 

Its best to burn the wood from angiosperms if available. 

[gatekrash]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Hexamine tablets are what the Army provides in their 'emergency' pocket-cookers.

Nasty smell, and covers the bottom of your cans / mug in a thick greasy soot, It would take us ages to get them clean.

Awful stuff and even the army gives warnings that it should only be used in a ventilated area (ie outdoors)

 

 

Hexamine has a similar energy to anthracite, but way less than LPG, or petrol/diesel.

 

Hexamine = 8 Wh / gram

Chafing Gel = 7.44 Wh / gram

Propane LPG = 13.6Wh / gram

Mixed Camping Gas = 14.2 Wh / gram

Seasoned Dry Wood = 4.2 Wh / gram

Methylated Spirit = 7.22 Wh/Gram

Petrol / Diesel = 12.5Wh / gram

Anthracite = 8.6 Wh / gram

Not any more, the MoD has banned it and now supply alcohol based 'fire dragon' cookers and fuel as the standard 'tommy cooker'.

 

I'm using up the last of my stock of hexi (I had a crate in the store when they stopped us using it) as it makes brilliant firelighters.

[magnetman]

 

 

Angiosperm wood tends to be more dense than gymnosperm wood. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, gatekrash said:

Not any more, the MoD has banned it and now supply alcohol based 'fire dragon' cookers and fuel as the standard 'tommy cooker'.

 

I'm using up the last of my stock of hexi (I had a crate in the store when they stopped us using it) as it makes brilliant firelighters.

 

Shows how long ago since I was involved with the Army Youth Team teaching survival.

 

I've still got a plastic box full of the stoves and tablets - JIC.

[magnetman]

https://www.jaxfirstaid.co.uk/solid-fuel-tablets/