Dutch Cruiser Conversion - WC cabin to shower / wet room room

[A A Matthews]

 

 

I am planning to convert tiny WC compartment on steel hulled Dutch Cruiser.

Would be useful to receive any ‘do’s , ‘ don’t ‘s / suggestions / advice please.

 

cheers in advance 

 

 

 

 

[Ken X]

Our only experience of a wet room on a hire boat wasn't great. The shower and loo were in the same wet room so you had to cross a wet floor to use the loo which inevitably resulted in muddy footprints or wet feet.  We assumed it had a leak in the lining somewhere as you could hear squishy noises as you walked around even it was dry.  It went into the "not having one of those" file.🙂.

[Tracy D'arth]

Arranging drainage on a boat that heels is tricky with a wet room, you risk it running out of the door! 

[A A Matthews]

1 hour ago, Ken X said:

Our only experience of a wet room on a hire boat wasn't great. The shower and loo were in the same wet room so you had to cross a wet floor to use the loo which inevitably resulted in muddy footprints or wet feet.  We assumed it had a leak in the lining somewhere as you could hear squishy noises as you walked around even it was dry.  It went into the "not having one of those" file.🙂.

 

ok thanks for your feedback.

I can understand the inconvenience perhaps on a bigger boat but in this case we are talking about a very small space indeed. The original sea toilet has been removed and  replaced with the smallest thetford unit.

There is no wash hand basin hence my idea to use all the space as a ‘wet ‘room 

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Arranging drainage on a boat that heels is tricky with a wet room, you risk it running out of the door! 

Thanks for responding. I was thinking of whale gulper to pump out grey water with WBP marine ply shower tray tanked with fibreglass. Wall frame of stud work to support Showerwall 

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, A A Matthews said:

hanks for responding. I was thinking of whale gulper to pump out grey water with WBP marine ply shower tray tanked with fibreglass. Wall frame of stud work to support Showerwall 

 

Often the heads are tight against the hull side, and on a cruiser you may find the floor boards are sitting on the hull at the outer edge. If you were thinking about fitting the tray beneath the floor, it might be a bit more complicated than you think, especially if there i a hull stringer or floor bearer in the way.

 

Have you thought about a fold up basin that fits to the "wall" and folds up into a shallow "box".

 

 

[A A Matthews]

tony,

thanks for response and suggestions. It’s early days and will not be doing anything until early next year weather permitting.  So at this stage I am looking at as many possibilities of achieving a wet room / shower room. My first task will be to strip out the existing smelly , dirty and highly unhygienic boarding inside . This will also free up a little bit more hitherto boarded over space. Then I can see what is underneath floor, walls etc. The original sea toilet was mounted on top of plywood step so with that removed I estimate I will gain 4 inches or so.

 

[blackrose]

Making a wetroom from a pre-existing space can be done and some people have done it, but in my opinion success in terms of making and keeping it watertight is more difficult compared to buying and installing a shower tray & enclosure that were specifically designed for that purpose. I realise the shower enclosure isn't an option here, I'm just trying to make the point that you'll need the wetroom to be perfect for it to work.

 

Since it's such a small space I don't really understand why you'd want it to be a wetroom anyway? What useful function would that perform? It sounds like showering in there would be difficult. Don't you have a bathroom elsewhere on the boat or is that it? If you do, why not just keep it as a toilet and install a tiny sink if you must?

Edited November 23, 2023 by blackrose

[A A Matthews]

10 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Making a wetroom from a pre-existing space can be done and some people have done it, but in my opinion success in terms of making and keeping it watertight is more difficult compared to buying and installing a shower tray & enclosure that were specifically designed for that purpose. I realise the shower enclosure isn't an option here, I'm just trying to make the point that you'll need the wetroom to be perfect for it to work.

 

Since it's such a small space I don't really understand why you'd want it to be a wetroom anyway? What useful function would that perform? It sounds like showering in there would be difficult. Don't you have a bathroom elsewhere on the boat or is that it? If you do, why not just keep it as a toilet and install a tiny sink if you must?

 

Appreciate your response.

Well yes I have a large flexible builders bucket that would be fine when we have hot summer weather!

However a simple hot shower is essential for my purposes with no choice as to where to have it other than in the we compartment unfortunately.

 

Perhaps you are not au fait with these small, 30 foot Dutch Cruisers but as one owner stated ‘ they are pocket boats ‘ , very snug and tight for space . Impossible to reposition a stand up shower , ready made or home made , anywhere.  

I meant to say that by me saying ‘wet room / shower room ‘ I am meaning either method will suffice , not fussed as such. It’s more to do with what’s best / what’s possible for the space. 

48 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Making a wetroom from a pre-existing space can be done and some people have done it, but in my opinion success in terms of making and keeping it watertight is more difficult compared to buying and installing a shower tray & enclosure that were specifically designed for that purpose. I realise the shower enclosure isn't an option here, I'm just trying to make the point that you'll need the wetroom to be perfect for it to work.

 

Since it's such a small space I don't really understand why you'd want it to be a wetroom anyway? What useful function would that perform? It sounds like showering in there would be difficult. Don't you have a bathroom elsewhere on the boat or is that it? If you do, why not just keep it as a toilet and install a tiny sink if you must?

 

Yes there is only the gallery sink that is fine but I am convinced with ingenuity, patience and my 35 years of experience as a cabinet maker / antique furniture restorer- conservator, metal worker etc I will be able to achieve a basic watertight shower / wet room . 
 

[blackrose]

Ok I see, I'd mistakenly assumed it was a Dutch barge with more space. 

 

I've never constructed a wet room myself so can't really help. The only advice I can give is possibly to use a clear flexible adhesive/sealant like Stixall rather than silicone because it's more permanent and less prone to leak. I used Stixall to seal the Showerwall joints in my shower and although it doesn't say anything about mould resistance it hasn't gone mouldy and that was about 8 years ago. It has a more solid rubber- like finish so I suspect water molecules can't get absorbed like they do with silicone. Use a dab of white spirit to prep surfaces and clean up before it goes off (several hours).

 

There are other brands around from Screwfix and Toolstation that are essentially the same: Sticks like Sh*t, The Dogs B*llox, CT-1, etc. I'm not sure which are available in clear? I think the people in their marketing depts try to appeal to the lowest common chav denominator, but they are good products.

Edited November 23, 2023 by blackrose

[magpie patrick]

8 hours ago, A A Matthews said:

 

ok thanks for your feedback.

I can understand the inconvenience perhaps on a bigger boat but in this case we are talking about a very small space indeed. The original sea toilet has been removed and  replaced with the smallest thetford unit.

There is no wash hand basin hence my idea to use all the space as a ‘wet ‘room 

 

My boat, Juno, is a Viking 23 and this is in effect the arrangement - the small cubicle for the toilet is also the shower cubicle, up to you whether you put the lid down on the loo and use it as a seat or lift it out entirely and stand for your shower. The floor is designed like a shower tray, moulded in plastic with a 4 inch high lip and a plug hole. A small pump automatically cuts in as soon as water goes down the plug hole 

[truckcab79]

You need to look at bathroom and tiling sites rather than on here. There are plenty of methods and products to achieve a wet room. 
 

Start by looking at Wedi building board and Mapei tanking solution and then work your way up in cost from there. Schlüter’s ditra  matting system is probably the best known at a price but it’s a job that’s worth doing well as you don’t want to be revisiting it.  

[Ken X]

Had a bit of a think, having had a negative experience.  Is it worth looking at the motorhome and caravan industry?  Not seen inside one recently but they are getting cleverer and posher so suspect the same problem has occured, and been solved, in this sector of the market.

[A A Matthews]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

Ok I see, I'd mistakenly assumed it was a Dutch barge with more space. 

 

I've never constructed a wet room myself so can't really help. The only advice I can give is possibly to use a clear flexible adhesive/sealant like Stixall rather than silicone because it's more permanent and less prone to leak. I used Stixall to seal the Showerwall joints in my shower and although it doesn't say anything about mould resistance it hasn't gone mouldy and that was about 8 years ago. It has a more solid rubber- like finish so I suspect water molecules can't get absorbed like they do with silicone. Use a dab of white spirit to prep surfaces and clean up before it goes off (several hours).

 

There are other brands around from Screwfix and Toolstation that are essentially the same: Sticks like Sh*t, The Dogs B*llox, CT-1, etc. I'm not sure which are available in clear? I think the people in their marketing depts try to appeal to the lowest common chav denominator, but they are good products.

 

Ha Ha ! Yes I agree with your comments about these unmentionable adhesive products!

 

I am a big fan of C T 1 which seems to cover every aspect of sealing and sticking and gives a solid and flexible bond .

 

Thanks for input 

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

 

My boat, Juno, is a Viking 23 and this is in effect the arrangement - the small cubicle for the toilet is also the shower cubicle, up to you whether you put the lid down on the loo and use it as a seat or lift it out entirely and stand for your shower. The floor is designed like a shower tray, moulded in plastic with a 4 inch high lip and a plug hole. A small pump automatically cuts in as soon as water goes down the plug hole 

 

 

Thanks and yes my project sounds the same as yours in the Viking . 
Was the floor tanked or did you find a proprietary tray ?

[Chris Lowe]

Have a look at how they do it in glamping pods, I hired one that had a combined wet room/toilet that was similar size to a standard toilet cubicle.

 

 

[Phoenix_V]

2 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

 

My boat, Juno, is a Viking 23 and this is in effect the arrangement - the small cubicle for the toilet is also the shower cubicle, up to you whether you put the lid down on the loo and use it as a seat or lift it out entirely and stand for your shower. The floor is designed like a shower tray, moulded in plastic with a 4 inch high lip and a plug hole. A small pump automatically cuts in as soon as water goes down the plug hole 

We had similar on our previous (30 foot) narrowboat, small 24" shower tray with a lid on, bathroom was about 3.5' by 2'

[Bacchus]

I have what I guess is a very similar boat (Linssen 32) which has a wet-room/loo adjacent to the after-cabin. It looks like a gravity drain to (I am guessing) a sump with a whale gulper on the midship side to pump the grey water through a skin-fitting. I don't know what the sub-floor is built of, but the flooring is lapped about 4" up the side of the walls to form a sort of integral tray, which is exactly what I did on my camper with fibre-glass (except that is gravity drained to a tank). If I was doing it from scratch I would be tempted to source some proper marine ply rather than WBP, but the latter will do the job for a good few years.

 

The shower area has a curtain to separate it from the loo, but you would have to walk through it as mentioned above (by @Ken X ), however I have found in the past that can be mitigated with a slatted mat type thing like this

 

[truckcab79]

1 hour ago, Ken X said:

Had a bit of a think, having had a negative experience.  Is it worth looking at the motorhome and caravan industry?  Not seen inside one recently but they are getting cleverer and posher so suspect the same problem has occured, and been solved, in this sector of the market.

They’re almost entirely pre-formed polymer sections. Not something to easily replicate and unlikely you’ll find one that you can lift out and reuse that would be less work than bespoke.  There are pre-formed and modular stand-alone showers normally seen in static caravans and the like but they’re generally pretty cheap and nasty looking.   

11 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

I have what I guess is a very similar boat (Linssen 32) which has a wet-room/loo adjacent to the after-cabin. It looks like a gravity drain to (I am guessing) a sump with a whale gulper on the midship side to pump the grey water through a skin-fitting. I don't know what the sub-floor is built of, but the flooring is lapped about 4" up the side of the walls to form a sort of integral tray, which is exactly what I did on my camper with fibre-glass (except that is gravity drained to a tank). If I was doing it from scratch I would be tempted to source some proper marine ply rather than WBP, but the latter will do the job for a good few years.

 

The shower area has a curtain to separate it from the loo, but you would have to walk through it as mentioned above (by @Ken X ), however I have found in the past that can be mitigated with a slatted mat type thing like this

 

Essentially the right approach.  Think about all your joints.  Minimise flex where you can and accommodate it where you can’t.  Use waterproof materials, seal everything with the appropriate products and overlap and overlap again.  As I said earlier you need to look at home bathroom systems. There’s no shortage of product to achieve what you want. They’re not cheap, but nor is digging it all out when it leaks.  

[Alan de Enfield]

On our 36' cruiser we had 3 toilets so we decided to make one into a wet-room (shower), basically it was the size of a double wardrobe.

 

Got a 'man im' who measured up and then prefabricated the entire floor and sides in panels that'd fit thru the door, vam enad installed and gelcoated over the lot. 

Made a tidy job.

 

Space is too small to get much in the way of a single picture, but a couple of pics showing the walls and floor.

 

1) Outside wall and window

2) Curve of the outside wall, an inside bulhead wall and the floor curved due to the shape of the hull.

3) Shower head and ceiling

4) Floor and plughole (water gravity fed into grey water holding tank)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[A A Matthews]

1 hour ago, Bacchus said:

I have what I guess is a very similar boat (Linssen 32) which has a wet-room/loo adjacent to the after-cabin. It looks like a gravity drain to (I am guessing) a sump with a whale gulper on the midship side to pump the grey water through a skin-fitting. I don't know what the sub-floor is built of, but the flooring is lapped about 4" up the side of the walls to form a sort of integral tray, which is exactly what I did on my camper with fibre-glass (except that is gravity drained to a tank). If I was doing it from scratch I would be tempted to source some proper marine ply rather than WBP, but the latter will do the job for a good few years.

 

The shower area has a curtain to separate it from the loo, but you would have to walk through it as mentioned above (by @Ken X ), however I have found in the past that can be mitigated with a slatted mat type thing like this

 

 

 

thanks for advice and that type of slatted timber mat is called a ‘duck board ‘ perhaps connected to what the troops made for the trenches in W W 1

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

On our 36' cruiser we had 3 toilets so we decided to make one into a wet-room (shower), basically it was the size of a double wardrobe.

 

Got a 'man im' who measured up and then prefabricated the entire floor and sides in panels that'd fit thru the door, vam enad installed and gelcoated over the lot. 

Made a tidy job.

 

Space is too small to get much in the way of a single picture, but a couple of pics showing the walls and floor.

 

1) Outside wall and window

2) Curve of the outside wall, an inside bulhead wall and the floor curved due to the shape of the hull.

3) Shower head and ceiling

4) Floor and plughole (water gravity fed into grey water holding tank)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes this looks and sounds the business. As I will be doing all the work on the tow path , as the space is tiny and as a tradesman with all the tools , trestles etc all the panels etc shall be easy to cut , shape etc and fit 

1 hour ago, truckcab79 said:

They’re almost entirely pre-formed polymer sections. Not something to easily replicate and unlikely you’ll find one that you can lift out and reuse that would be less work than bespoke.  There are pre-formed and modular stand-alone showers normally seen in static caravans and the like but they’re generally pretty cheap and nasty looking.   

Essentially the right approach.  Think about all your joints.  Minimise flex where you can and accommodate it where you can’t.  Use waterproof materials, seal everything with the appropriate products and overlap and overlap again.  As I said earlier you need to look at home bathroom systems. There’s no shortage of product to achieve what you want. They’re not cheap, but nor is digging it all out when it leaks.  

 

As an ex long term year round caravan dweller I am familiar with that type of shower however in my twin axel Abbey Spectrum the shower cubicle is preformed and just fitted into the desired space .

 

The boat wc compartment is a tiny odd cramped shape that will require bespoke fitting out for shower use rather than buying a ready made cubical unfortunately!

1 hour ago, Chris Lowe said:

Have a look at how they do it in glamping pods, I hired one that had a combined wet room/toilet that was similar size to a standard toilet cubicle.

 

 

Yes that’s a good suggestion but the ‘challenge’ I have is that the wc compartment is absolutely not standard in any way so the fit out has to be bespoke . I am confident in achieving a workable shower room and decided to see what others had to say 

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Bacchus said:

 It looks like a gravity drain to (I am guessing) a sump with a whale gulper on the midship side to pump the grey water through a skin-fitting. 

 

That's another thing. Fit a manually switched whale gulper 220 direct to the drain hole for the waste water. No filter required and will last for decades without any maintenance. Fit the switch somewhere accessible in the shower such as above your head where it will stay dry.

 

Whatever you do don't fit one of those automatic bilge pump sump box contraptions. They are useless, clog regularly, generally leak and only last a few years.

Edited November 23, 2023 by blackrose

[Mike Tee]

^^^ I was just about to write all that! The last thing you need to do is rip up the tanked floor because the auto pump has failed.

[David Mack]

25 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

That's another thing. Fit a manually switched whale gulper 220 direct to the drain hole for the waste water. No filter required and will last for decades without any maintenance. Fit the switch somewhere accessible in the shower such as above your head where it will stay dry.

 

Whatever you do don't fit one of those automatic bilge pump sump box contraptions. They are useless, clog regularly, generally leak and only last a few years.

And shun the fashion for low profile shower trays. On a boat, particularly a small one which I guess rocks quite a bit as you move about, have a nice high threshold at the doorway so that if the shower is running faster than the pump you have room to store some water around your feet without the risk of it spilling out.

[Tony Brooks]

30 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

^^^ I was just about to write all that! The last thing you need to do is rip up the tanked floor because the auto pump has failed.

 

Only an idiot would put any pump under a tanked floor. Whilst not ideal, there should be enough room in the bilge to one side of the compartment, or even through the bulkhead in the engine room.

[Bacchus]

47 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Only an idiot would put any pump under a tanked floor. Whilst not ideal, there should be enough room in the bilge to one side of the compartment, or even through the bulkhead in the engine room.

The Linssen has an access panel in the after cabin - I haven't actually lifted it yet (new boat...) but I would be amazed if it isn't for the shower pump.

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, A A Matthews said:

 

Appreciate your response.

Well yes I have a large flexible builders bucket that would be fine when we have hot summer weather!

However a simple hot shower is essential for my purposes with no choice as to where to have it other than in the we compartment unfortunately.

 

Perhaps you are not au fait with these small, 30 foot Dutch Cruisers but as one owner stated ‘ they are pocket boats ‘ , very snug and tight for space . Impossible to reposition a stand up shower , ready made or home made , anywhere.  

I meant to say that by me saying ‘wet room / shower room ‘ I am meaning either method will suffice , not fussed as such. It’s more to do with what’s best / what’s possible for the space. 

 

Yes there is only the gallery sink that is fine but I am convinced with ingenuity, patience and my 35 years of experience as a cabinet maker / antique furniture restorer- conservator, metal worker etc I will be able to achieve a basic watertight shower / wet room . 
 

You could fit a shower in the self draining cockpit.