2, 2.5 or 3…

[Phlea]

… thousand miles?

 

The system is variously stated as being, in totality, one of these lengths. Has anybody actually measured it and is there a definitive answer? Just wondering.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just accept

"Its a long way to Tipperary, Its a long way to go"

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Depends if some one has left the paddles open overnight and drained some of it.

 

[Phlea]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just accept

"Its a long way to Tipperary, Its a long way to go"

Yeah, but Irish Sea crossing…

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Phlea said:

… thousand miles?

 

The system is variously stated as being, in totality, one of these lengths. Has anybody actually measured it and is there a definitive answer? Just wondering.

 

 

As always, first you have to definitively define the question. Measured what exactly? In full detail please.

 

(Yes I could guess what you mean but the above still applies.)

[Arthur Marshall]

It's fractal, aint it? Impossible to measure accurately as the more accurately you measure it, the longer it gets. Luckily, size isn't important. Every bloke knows that .

[Phlea]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

As always, first you have to definitively define the question. Measured what exactly? In full detail please.

 

(Yes I could guess what you mean but the above still applies.)

Hmmm, length of pounds/reaches plus length of locks, plus (average width of a lock gate x no. of locks x2), of navigable waterways of the UK I guess

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Phlea said:

Hmmm, length of pounds/reaches plus length of locks, plus (average width of a lock gate x no. of locks x2), of navigable waterways of the UK I guess

 

Navigable by what?

 

A canoe presumably? 

[Phlea]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Navigable by what?

 

A canoe presumably? 

Coracle 

[MtB]

Just now, Phlea said:

Coracle 

 

Nobody knows! 

[Alan de Enfield]

And - what is 'the system'?

 

C&RT waters ?

all inland waterways, only connected waterways lake district, Norfolk broads, Rivers, Tidal Rivers ?

 

England only, or Great Britain or the United Kingdom ?

[Phlea]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And - what is 'the system'?

 

C&RT waters ?

all inland waterways, only connected waterways lake district, Norfolk broads, Rivers, Tidal Rivers ?

 

England only, or Great Britain or the United Kingdom ?

I see what you mean. It seemed like such a simple question. 

 

[MtB]

35 minutes ago, Phlea said:

I see what you mean. It seemed like such a simple question. 

 

 

And would say, the Basingstoke Canal need to be included?

 

Owned and managed by a consortium of local councils (IIRC) and navigable only by prior arrangement and connected into the... um... Wey Navigation, owned by the National Trust? 

[magnetman]

Someone will have measured it. 

 

assuming no stoppages a back of envelope calculation says £2,075m. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just accept

"Its a long way to Tipperary, Its a long way to go"

Or as Bon Scott put it after taking a narrow boat trip from London to Yorkshire and encountering some unexpected difficulties. 

 

 

[DShK]

Along the lines of what Arthur said: the coastline paradox applies.

 

So the answer is all of the above. Depending how you measure it!

Edited November 5, 2023 by DShK

[magnetman]

Interesting to know if the CRT have an accurate figure for their bit. 

 

I wonder if a FOIA request via the whatdotheyknow website might yield a figure say to within 10 miles or if they would be non committal. 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Interesting to know if the CRT have an accurate figure for their bit. 

 

I wonder if a FOIA request via the whatdotheyknow website might yield a figure say to within 10 miles or if they would be non committal. 

 

 

They do publish the mileage (they consider) within their responsibility in the annual accounts.

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Captain Pegg]

I don’t think it’s akin to measuring the coastline at all.

 

For canals the enabling acts presumably define the course of the channel and the associated land take. The only question is what is the line that is it measured e.g. centre line of the channel, centre line of the land boundary, right hand bank, left hand bank…
 
These would only give significant variances over short distances.

 

Whether it was a requirement for canals to have mile markers as was the case with railways I don’t know.

 

For rivers it is perhaps a little more complicated but it isn’t difficult to come up with an answer using the same kind of logic.

 

A legitimate question would be that if these extents are based on original documents from the building of the canals how accurate was the measurement? Some of the restored mile markers are dubious as to their accuracy even if they are in the known original positions. Railway mileposts suffer the same issue, they are not consistent and in some cases are very inaccurate.

[magpie patrick]

2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I don’t think it’s akin to measuring the coastline at all.

 

For canals the enabling acts presumably define the course of the channel and the associated land take. 

 Wishful thinking for some of the earlier ones - the coal canal act listed the parishes and even then got one of them in the wrong county. The explanatory documents laid out a route but they don't seem to have been obliged to stick to it. 

 

River navigation acts were often vague - they would refer to collateral cuts without listing where or how many (the St Helens Canal was built on the basis of powers to build such cuts, so they built one very long one). The terminal points were vague, often only naming the town or simply the limit of navigation works. 

[Captain Pegg]

8 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 Wishful thinking for some of the earlier ones - the coal canal act listed the parishes and even then got one of them in the wrong county. The explanatory documents laid out a route but they don't seem to have been obliged to stick to it. 

 

River navigation acts were often vague - they would refer to collateral cuts without listing where or how many (the St Helens Canal was built on the basis of powers to build such cuts, so they built one very long one). The terminal points were vague, often only naming the town or simply the limit of navigation works. 

Were there any forms of design drawing or setting out information? There must have been something that defined the course of the canal, even if just a record of the as built position.

 

Either way, a canal has a distinct length.

[Ronaldo47]

It was reported on the news a few years ago that a dredger had inadvertently drained a pound when it had pulled up a length of chain  attached to a wooden plug that had been sealing a forgotten drainhole in a culvert that had been provided for draining the canal into a stream. Apparently the original canal company's records had been destroyed in an air raid during WWII, which was why nobody knew  it was there. I guess other such original records may have been lost over the years.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Ronaldo47

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

The explanatory documents laid out a route but they don't seem to have been obliged to stick to it. 

The Parliamentary Acts by which most canals were constructed included a Power to Deviate, which gave the engineer on the ground flexibility in determining the exact line built. Essential really for the early contour canals, since before the days of Ordnance Survey large scale mapping, nobody had any idea of the exact route of the contour to be followed until construction started.

Modern legislation still includes a Power to Deviate. It's just that lateral extent of the permitted deviation is rather more tied down now than it was in the 18th century.

Edited November 5, 2023 by David Mack

[Tim Lewis]

5000 miles according to the IWA:

 

https://www.waterways.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/IWA_directory_inland_waterways_010521a.pdf

[Mike Todd]

14 hours ago, Phlea said:

Yeah, but Irish Sea crossing…

There was once a shaggy dog story (remrmber them?) about a rary bird . . . and how to dispose of it . . . 

[Heartland]

If I remember the Rary Bird story, or joke, ends up with the comment at a cliff face, "It is a long way to tip a Rary"

 

But as to navigable mileage are the disused waterways included. Some canal companies had accurate distance tables especially for working out tolls, but others did not. Some like the Arisaig Canal had a specific purpose.