No to insuring a narrowboat without an engine.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

Newt Appreciation Society A. 

 

They probably feel superior to Society B. 

 

 

I'm newt to all this. I didn't realise there was A B group.

[magnetman]

 

 

Neither of these groups have the prestige of the Newt Enjoyment Wetlands Trust. 

 

 

[rusty69]

I spose the OP could say the boat has an outboard. Problem solved.

[magnetman]

As explained further up you don't want to lie to an insurance company about an engine install. 

 

If the boat sinks and it was corrosion around something related to the engine (weedhatch, starn gear, sea cocks, rudder etc) they would have the ideal opportunity to withdraw cover. 

 

A butty, which is a genuine unpowered craft, has none of these hull penetrations. 

 

 

I've seen a boat sunk by a rotten rudder tube and also seen a boat almost sunk by a rusted out sea cock arrangement.

 

 

[rusty69]

Well, I wasn't actually advising lying, but buying a cheap working outboard to secure insurance. Though having third party insurance on one of my boats, I'm pretty sure they don't care that it has an engine working or not.

[magnetman]

 

 

It is slightly curious that the person referred to in the OP wants to deny there is an engine. I wonder if there is a bigger story in that they have acquired a houseboat certificate, which means you don't pay VAT on the mooring and whoever inspected the boat, unless it was self declared, has allowed a decommissioned engine to fulfil the requirement of not being capable of self propulsion. 

 

If one then insured it as a motorised boat it would be a bit awkward. 

 

 

[Peanut]

If you declare that the boat has no engine, whether it has one, working or not, and the boat sinks for reasons unrelated to the engine or its installation, they can still disclaim you, as you have made a false statement of fact when taking out the insurance.  Had you made a true declaration, then the insurance terms or risk would have been different, and a different contract would have been entered into.

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, Peanut said:

If you declare that the boat has no engine, whether it has one, working or not, and the boat sinks for reasons unrelated to the engine or its installation, they can still disclaim you, as you have made a false statement of fact when taking out the insurance.  Had you made a true declaration, then the insurance terms or risk would have been different, and a different contract would have been entered into.

 

I was thinking along these lines too. Why not just tell the insurance company it has an engine, because it does! 

 

Problem solved. 

 

Like MM says, I think we are only getting half a story. 

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I was thinking along these lines too. Why not just tell the insurance company it has an engine, because it does! 

 

Problem solved. 

 

Like MM says, I think we are only getting half a story. 

 

Do we actually know if it has an engine ? all we know is that "it doesn't have a working engine" which could of course mean it has no engine.

 

The title of the thread is actually "Insuring a barrowboat without an engine"

 

It's maybe one of those southern specials "Pedal Powered" as seen here (first time shown at around 35 seconds to 45 second in)

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Do we actually know if it has an engine ?

 

Somewhere in the thread the OP states it does have an engine, busted and decommisioned.

 

 

[David Mack]

55 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Somewhere in the thread the OP states it does have an engine, busted and decommisioned.

 

 

In which case surely it is best to declare it as under/awaiting repair.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The title of the thread is actually "Insuring a barrowboat without an engine"

 

 

Maybe the root problem is the insurers can't work out what a "barrowboat" is...

 

 

[Puffling]

On 03/11/2023 at 12:49, magnetman said:

I was referring to the OP boat which is described as a static craft on a mooring with a mothballed engine

One of my favourite toys as a young lad was a small boat (it may have been a gift in a packet of cornflakes), which was powered by a piece of napthalene you clipped on the back. A mothball engine! I'm not sure how this resulted in propulsion - some surface tension effect?

 

I expect you could scale the idea up and hang nets of mothballs off the stern to power your narrowboat. Not likely to be well received by CRT or EA, I'd imagine.

[Alan de Enfield]

30 minutes ago, Puffling said:

I expect you could scale the idea up and hang nets of mothballs off the stern to power your narrowboat.

 

I think if I was hung up on the stern by my balls, I'd be flapping my wings as well.

[Tony Brooks]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Maybe the root problem is the insurers can't work out what a "barrowboat" is...

 

 

 

I am almost sure Barrowboat is the trade name for a small tender style dinghy with a wheel at the bow for moving it to the water, so maybe the insurers have bee    confused.

[TheBiscuits]

8 hours ago, rusty69 said:

I think you forgot the colony of great crested newts that got wiped out and subsequently the whole species became extinct. 

 

Colony? I thought there were only two of them.

 

They each have their own social worker and a support team that move them from building site to building site around the country ...

Edited November 4, 2023 by TheBiscuits
Stupid mobile phone

[MtB]

3 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Colony? I thought there were only two of them.

 

 

i think you'll find every proposed building site and certainly every site where a new marina is proposed, is infested with them.

 

 

 

I heard a rumour the other day that construction of Hungerford Marina has held up for many years by the presence of slow worms on the site. 

 

 

[R H]

On 03/11/2023 at 22:29, Arthur Marshall said:

If the boat doesn't go anywhere, what's the point of 3rd party insurance? Going to be pretty hard to damage any other boat. What could you possibly claim for? If its used as a residence, I'd have thought you'd need something a bit more, er, comprehensive.

It's a requirement of the marina we're in - they insist in insurance 

On 03/11/2023 at 12:44, ditchcrawler said:

But its not, there is an engine and if the boat sank and the insurance assessor comes a long he is going to notice an engine and your friend has told the insurance company there isn't one, I cant see that being good news

She has declared that there is an engine and also that it is non-working, which has been taken as having no engine. I don't get it either, it makes no sense.

On 03/11/2023 at 17:03, cuthound said:

I wonder if the insurers are refusing insurance because the boat cannot be readily be taken to a boatyard for periodic docking or other maintenance?

It is regularly maintained with blackening, survey and BSC, etc - it's a well maintained boat that they only live on with no intention, or desire of cruising.

 

15 hours ago, RLWP said:

 

The obvious solution would be to remove the engine. What engine is it?

 

Richard

I think it's an old lister engine. Removing it completely presents it's own issues - balance, stability, prop shaft/stern gland, etc.

15 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Is it on the K&A ?

(With some, there seems to be an impression that C&RT rules/regulations are optional)

No, it's on the Grand Union. Where we're moored, a licence isn't required because we're not on the cut - we're on a private residential mooring marina.

[David Mack]

51 minutes ago, R H said:

No, it's on the Grand Union. Where we're moored, a licence isn't required because we're not on the cut - we're on a private residential mooring marina.

Is this an offline marina or basin that predates the NAA and has grandfather rights, or perhaps on the River Soar? If not you need a CRT licence.

[RLWP]

9 hours ago, R H said:

 

I think it's an old lister engine. Removing it completely presents it's own issues - balance, stability, prop shaft/stern gland, etc.

 

 

Splendid, we specialise in the repair of old Lister engines. If you want an idea of what that might cost, give Sue a ring on Monday. 01926 356200

 

Richard

[MtB]

10 hours ago, R H said:

She has declared that there is an engine and also that it is non-working, which has been taken as having no engine. I don't get it either, it makes no sense.

 

In which case the answer seems obvious. Tell them "no engine" is incorrect, there IS an engine. This is factual and correct. Maybe it doesn't work at the moment but there IS an engine.

 

If the stupidity persists, change insurers to, say, basic-boat.com who don't ask anything about engines.

 

 

 

 

[Creaking Gate]

On 03/11/2023 at 11:08, R H said:

Hi 

Thank you for your response.

The boat is on a permanent, residential mooring and, although they have an engine on the boat, it is not a working engine (and unrepairable). Craft Insure were one of the companies that turned them down because it is classed as having no engine. This is the same with many other insurers.

 

 

Plus if its on a CaRT mooring, it needs to have a working engine as well (and insurance).  What mooring is it? 

[ditchcrawler]

52 minutes ago, Creaking Gate said:

Plus if its on a CaRT mooring, it needs to have a working engine as well (and insurance).  What mooring is it? 

Does it?

[Momac]

53 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Does it?

I doubt it is required to have a working engine

Edited November 7, 2023 by MartynG

[Mike Todd]

17 hours ago, MartynG said:

I doubt it is required to have a working engine

May be not by CaRT but it seems by the insurers. After all, they are entitled to set whatever limits they choose for what they will cover, subject only to such things as discrimination laws.