No fuel when starting 2LW

[Felshampo]

After getting back from our summer on the boat with no issues we left the boat for a week in the marina. 

When we returned for a short trip it would not start. It turned over but instead of firing up after a few seconds it just kept on going. I pumped the lever on the fuel for a minute and tried again and it started after about ten seconds or so. 

I had a look at the fuel filter, it was still clean, but changed it anyway. We went for a few days trip and each morning it started as normal. 

Today after leaving it for a week, again it would not start. Pumping the fuel for a minute and again it started. 

It has always been very reliable in the past, starting on freezing cold days after having been left for weeks, without a problem. 

Any ideas would be welcome. 

I will reply later if you have any questions. 

[BEngo]

I think that somewhere you have an air leak which is allowing the fuel to drain back from the injection pump.

 

Air leaks can be a bugger to find, because their is nothing coming out. Check all the connections from the injection pump to the tank.  Make sure the fuel filter bowl is properly seated and that the filter securing bolts have all their seals.

 If nothing obvious , check the oil level is not rising and the oil is not getting lots of diesel in it.  This would indicate a split or leaking lift pump diaphragm.

 

N

[jonesthenuke]

For clarity, I assume you mean you are operating the priming lever on the lift pump or are you operating the levers on the injection pump?

Whilst a leak on the fuel line or pump sounds likely,and is worth checking  I would have expected the engine to start on the fuel left in the injection pump.

How is your fuel supply arranged? Is the tank lower than the engine and thus potentially fuel is flowing back to the tank if the lift pump valves are not sealing? Perhaps some photos would help.

[magnetman]

33 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

 

I had a look at the fuel filter, it was still clean, but changed it anyway. 

 

As mentioned above make sure the fuel filter is definitely properly fitted with new o ring(s) if it is the old type. This includes the o ring on the bolt holding the parts together.

 

As the fuel filter was disturbed it seems the most likely candidate. 

[Felshampo]

Yes I was using the lever on the lift pump. 

There is no signs of fuel around the filter casing. I used a new rubber O ring and a doughty washer on the nut. 

There is fuel around the edge of the lift pump but there always has been. 

The oil level seems OK. 

[magnetman]

The big end has gone. 

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

 

There is fuel around the edge of the lift pump but there always has been. 

 

That could be a big clue, if diesel can leak out, air must be getting into replace it.

[jonesthenuke]

How much fuel around the lift pump and are you certain it is fuel and not oil? Some lube oil will get onto the top of the diaphragm and the upper pump body has drainage holes to clear this. in the past i thought i had a leaking diaphragm but in the end concluded it was oil.

[Felshampo]

Only a small amount around the diaphragm but this could have got worse! I wipe it clean and it usually stays dry until I run the engine again. 

[Tony Brooks]

This may or may not be relevant. I don't know the details of that engine, but the fuel filter could well be a 296 CAV type. If so they seem to come in two forms. The early ones sealed the centre bolt with a soft washer onto a machined face. if yours is like this, then the Dowty washer is a good idea. later ones seem to seal with an O ring under the head of the bolt and this type still has a sort of machines faces but the top of the bolt hole is tapered. if yours is like this the lip on the rubber part of a Dowty seal may well just enter the taper and do nothing at all. If so it could well leak air.

 

If it is not a 296 type please ignore.

[jonesthenuke]

10 minutes ago, Felshampo said:

Only a small amount around the diaphragm but this could have got worse! I wipe it clean and it usually stays dry until I run the engine again. 

FYI two drain holes as in centre of this image

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Felshampo said:

 

There is no signs of fuel around the filter casing.

If the filter is above the fuel level in the tank and is not sealing, then air can get in, allowing fuel in the pipe to drain back to the tank, and you won't get any fuel on the outside of the filter. Is the filter above or below the fuel level?

 

If you normally keep the tank fairly full and above filter level, but have recently allowed the level to drop below filter level, that would account for the problem only occurring recently.

Edited September 25, 2023 by David Mack

[Felshampo]

Could be that. I will fill up and see if that makes a difference. 

[jonesthenuke]

Any update on this? Just curious.

 

[magnetman]

Also interesting to know if it is one of the 1990s 2LWs a la "Unsppilt by progress" or one of the older types from the 50s or 60s. 

 

 

[MtB]

Whichever it is, I compliment the OP on having an immaculately shiny engine unspoilt by all the slight oil and diesel leaks mine always seem to display! 

 

 

[john.k]

The 4LW in my old crane started doing that....after being totally reliable for 30 odd years .....fortunately the yard clear up was finished...........My theory was the rubber ring in the primary fuel filter had given up..........I have lots of the filter elements,but no rings ...so the ring hasnt been replaced ...........Anyhoo, I just walked away and left the crane there.

[BEngo]

17 hours ago, MtB said:

the slight oil and diesel leaks

No, no, no. You misunderstand. These are not leaks.  They are the continuous  corrosion prevention system at work.

 

N

 

 

[Felshampo]

It's a 1952  2lw.

There is a one way valve on the fuel pump that could have been stuck so I have had a new one fitted. 

Unfortunately this does not seem to have improved the start time. 

[Split Pin]

Make sure that the rack is returning properly, if you leave the stop lever in the stop position after stopping the engine there is a good chance the rack will stick, especially if it has a low tension return spring fitted to lower the tick over. It is pretty much impossible for the fuel gallery in the fuel pump to empty to a point where the engine will not start,  unless there has been a catastrophic failure within the pump body. They will run on the fuel in the pipe from the filter for about 60 seconds. Are you using the cold start? 

[Felshampo]

I think it is returning but when it go back when I return the lever to start. 

The engine does start after it has turned over several times. There is fuel in the filter. Could air have got in after the pump so that it has to get to the pistons before it starts. 

There is no fuel leaking from the pump but presumably air could get in. 

[noddyboater]

Give the priming levers a few pulls before you start it, that will prove if any air is getting in the pump.

I have to do that on my 3L2 if it's not been running for a month or so. 

[Felshampo]

1 hour ago, noddyboater said:

Give the priming levers a few pulls before you start it, that will prove if any air is getting in the pump.

I have to do that on my 3L2 if it's not been running for a month or so. 

How will that prove that air is in the pump? What will I notice if there is or isn't? 

 

[noddyboater]

4 hours ago, Felshampo said:

How will that prove that air is in the pump? What will I notice if there is or isn't? 

 

If there's air in there the levers will feel slack for several pulls, then you'll feel pressure building up and a "creak" as the injector releases.

 

[Felshampo]

12 hours ago, noddyboater said:

If there's air in there the levers will feel slack for several pulls, then you'll feel pressure building up and a "creak" as the injector releases.

 

I tried this today. The levers feel slack, other than the spring you are pulling against. I pulled them several times with no change. No build up of pressure or creak from the splayer. 

Having said that I then tried the engine and it started easily.