No fuel when starting 2LW

[Clanky]

Is it smoking any more than usual on start up? Is the oil level normal? Does the oil smell of diesel?

Edited November 21, 2023 by Clanky

[Felshampo]

14 minutes ago, Clanky said:

Is it smoking any more than usual on start up? Is the oil level normal? Does the oil smell of diesel?

No more smoke. 

Oil level hasn't changed since March, just a fraction under max. 

No diesel smell in the oil. 

Have you any ideas as to what may be the problem? 

[Clanky]

i was thinking that the injectors might be leaking, hence it fires up after a few turns and when you prime using the levers there is no resistance and not hearing the squeak of the injectors releasing, but fires instantly after using the priming levers. Is it worth trying some injector cleaner in the fuel?

[Felshampo]

 

1 hour ago, Clanky said:

i was thinking that the injectors might be leaking, hence it fires up after a few turns and when you prime using the levers there is no resistance and not hearing the squeak of the injectors releasing, but fires instantly after using the priming levers. Is it worth trying some injector cleaner in the fuel?

Don't know. I'll look into that. 

[agg221]

Next time you run it, after you stop I suggest using the priming levers to compare the feel to before and, particularly, to listen for the creak. If you are getting it after but not before then the fuel is not staying on the high pressure side. Also, compare the two cylinders to see if both are the same and 'creak' properly.

 

Alec

[davidb]

I have never pulled my priming levers past the point where they start pumping as they felt rock hard and I thought I might have be going to break something. Are they normally hard to pull? Engine is a great starter always.

[Felshampo]

2 hours ago, davidb said:

I have never pulled my priming levers past the point where they start pumping as they felt rock hard and I thought I might have be going to break something. Are they normally hard to pull? Engine is a great starter always.

To be honest I've also not had a problem starting until now. I haven't been pulling the priming before so don't know what they were like. 

[jonesthenuke]

If the priming levers are not showing any resistance before starting after being left for some time, does this perhaps point to defective non-return valves in the injection pump? On our engine the priming levers are stiff and pumping through the injector on the first or second pull even after leaving the engine shutdown for weeks.

 

Otherwise, it's perhaps the injectors or the pump elements. You can get some idea of leakage through these by seeing how the priming lever slowly continues to move down after being brought to the point where resistance is felt by maintaining the same force on the lever (just less than the force required to open the injector. Gardner provided details of how to test the pump elements as shown in the attached. I made this test equipment and it convinced me to get the pump on our engine serviced as it confirmed that one of the pump elements was worn

pump element tests.pdf

[BWM]

Definitely sounds like a leak at one end of the high pressure side, pump or injector, or connecting pipework. 

[Felshampo]

20 minutes ago, jonesthenuke said:

If the priming levers are not showing any resistance before starting after being left for some time, does this perhaps point to defective non-return valves in the injection pump? On our engine the priming levers are stiff and pumping through the injector on the first or second pull even after leaving the engine shutdown for weeks.

 

Otherwise, it's perhaps the injectors or the pump elements. You can get some idea of leakage through these by seeing how the priming lever slowly continues to move down after being brought to the point where resistance is felt by maintaining the same force on the lever (just less than the force required to open the injector. Gardner provided details of how to test the pump elements as shown in the attached. I made this test equipment and it convinced me to get the pump on our engine serviced as it confirmed that one of the pump elements was worn

pump element tests.pdf 514.09 kB · 1 download

 

7 minutes ago, BWM said:

Definitely sounds like a leak at one end of the high pressure side, pump or injector, or connecting pipework. 

 

I've got someone coming to replace the injectors next weekend. If that doesn't work then it looks like the fuel pump from what you have all said. It was calibrated by Walshes 4 years ago so I hope it's not that. 

I'll post on here when I find out. 

[agg221]

If it is the pump you may wish to speak to Cambridge Injector Services. No connection other than as a satisfied customer, mainly for cars, but the father of the current owner still comes in to overhaul vintage pumps and they are capable of manufacturing components if they are unobtainable. When I took the CAV BPE pump in from my Kelvin J2 they came back to me to ask if I was aware of the need for petrol starting before doing any work on it - having recognised the serial number designation and being sufficiently familiar with this engine to know that this was necessary and could save me the cost if I wasn't aware of it. In fact it was the pump, but it was around £100 for the service, about a year ago.

 

Alec

[Felshampo]

57 minutes ago, agg221 said:

If it is the pump you may wish to speak to Cambridge Injector Services. No connection other than as a satisfied customer, mainly for cars, but the father of the current owner still comes in to overhaul vintage pumps and they are capable of manufacturing components if they are unobtainable. When I took the CAV BPE pump in from my Kelvin J2 they came back to me to ask if I was aware of the need for petrol starting before doing any work on it - having recognised the serial number designation and being sufficiently familiar with this engine to know that this was necessary and could save me the cost if I wasn't aware of it. In fact it was the pump, but it was around £100 for the service, about a year ago.

 

Alec

I'll bear that in mind, thanks. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Felshampo

[BWM]

13 hours ago, Felshampo said:

I'll bear that in mind, thanks. 

If you're anywhere near London, there's a place called Watson Diesel in Wimbledon. Ask for Ian, as he is very good with marine stuff.

[Felshampo]

1 hour ago, BWM said:

If you're anywhere near London, there's a place called Watson Diesel in Wimbledon. Ask for Ian, as he is very good with marine stuff.

I'm in Nantwich at the moment, but thanks anyway. 

[Stellar2lw]

Charles Mills or Kevin Simner from Classic Maritime Diesels will probably be able to help.  Charles 07712 052635 Kevin 07789 755375

Edited November 25, 2023 by Stellar2lw
Correct spelling error

[Felshampo]

25 minutes ago, Stellar2lw said:

Charles Mills or Kevin Simner from Classic Maritime Diesels will probably be able to help.  Charles 07712 052635 Kevin 07789 755375

Charles did the overhaul 4 years ago. Top man. 

[Felshampo]

Just thought I would follow up and let people know what has happened. 

Found a chap called Eric Ward who works at Walshes and lives near me. He had a look and at first thought it might be a sticking valve on the lift pump. So he removed it and gave it an overhaul. It was leaking from the diaphragm and the the valve needed replacing. This improved things. 

Still seemed to be a problem so he replaced the splayers. That has made a real difference and I have to say the engine now starts quicker than it has ever done since I've had it. 

The only thing left would be to overhaul the fuel pump. Eric was reluctant to do that, especially when I said it had been done 5 years ago by Walshes. He reckons it was probably him who had reconditioned it! 

I was impressed by how quickly and easily Eric and Claudia, his missus who also works at Walshes, were able to remove and replace the pump and splayers. If you know what your doing these really are easy engines to work on. Having the right spanners also helps, we needed four types including Whitworths and BA (I'd never heard of the latter) 

Edited March 4 by Felshampo

[Tracy D'arth]

BA,  nothing to do with Baracus.

 

British Association, commonly used on electrical fittings and model making.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

BA,  nothing to do with Baracus.

 

British Association, commonly used on electrical fittings and model making.

 

Which I think may actually be a metric thread, but not 100% sure.

[David Mack]

41 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Which I think may actually be a metric thread, but not 100% sure.

Indeed. Wikipedia says:

"British Association screw threads, or BA screw threads, are a set of small screw threads, the largest being 0BA at 6 mm diameter. They were, and to some extent still are, used for miniature instruments and modelling.

They are unusual in that they were probably the most "scientific" design of screw, starting with 0BA at 6.0 mm diameter and 1.0 mm pitch and progressing in a geometric sequence where each larger number was 0.9 times the pitch of the last size. They then rounded to 2 significant figures in metric and then converting to inches and rounding to the thousandth of an inch. This anticipated worldwide metrication by about a century. The design was first proposed by the British Association in 1884[1][2] with a thread angle and depth based on the Swiss Thury thread,[3] it was adopted by the Association in 1903."

[Felshampo]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

BA,  nothing to do with Baracus.

 

British Association, commonly used on electrical fittings and model making.

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Which I think may actually be a metric thread, but not 100% sure.

 

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Indeed. Wikipedia says:

"British Association screw threads, or BA screw threads, are a set of small screw threads, the largest being 0BA at 6 mm diameter. They were, and to some extent still are, used for miniature instruments and modelling.

They are unusual in that they were probably the most "scientific" design of screw, starting with 0BA at 6.0 mm diameter and 1.0 mm pitch and progressing in a geometric sequence where each larger number was 0.9 times the pitch of the last size. They then rounded to 2 significant figures in metric and then converting to inches and rounding to the thousandth of an inch. This anticipated worldwide metrication by about a century. The design was first proposed by the British Association in 1884[1][2] with a thread angle and depth based on the Swiss Thury thread,[3] it was adopted by the Association in 1903."

 

The bolts holding the diaphragm on are 2BA which is 4mm.

[jonesthenuke]

B.A. threads were mainly used in the even sizes, 0, 2, 4, 6 etc. IIRC the GPO used a lot of the odd numbered sizes in their equipment, apparently to stop them being used for homers by their staff. 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, jonesthenuke said:

B.A. threads were mainly used in the even sizes, 0, 2, 4, 6 etc. IIRC the GPO used a lot of the odd numbered sizes in their equipment, apparently to stop them being used for homers by their staff. 

Hornby use the odd sizes on their models.

[agg221]

8 hours ago, jonesthenuke said:

B.A. threads were mainly used in the even sizes, 0, 2, 4, 6 etc. IIRC the GPO used a lot of the odd numbered sizes in their equipment, apparently to stop them being used for homers by their staff. 

The main jet on a Kelvin F carburettor is 3BA.

 

The J uses 2BA on the bowl carb and 4BA on the lifting screws which fit in the top of the changeover valves from diesel to petrol.

 

The A has quite an assortment of 2,4 and 6BA.

 

Alec

[john.k]

Lucas used odd BA sizes in their headlights and magnetos.....mainly 1BA and  3BA.