Blacking costs

[Arthur Marshall]

Just out of interest, has anyone had a boat blacked recently (by a yard, not themselves) ? I'm comparing blacking quotes - 40 footer, two coats 2 pac.

[DShK]

A yard (known for doing a good job) quoted me at £32 per foot for sides and base or £27 per foot for sides only. The one I'm going with (for a variety of reasons) quoted £25 per foot for the sides only (the yard owner knew my boat and confirmed the baseplate wasn't coated).

[booke23]

Just had my 40 footer blacked last month. The yard charged £14/ft + VAT, but have a 50ft minimum charge so it came to £840. This included slippage, power washing, scraping, rotary wire brushing and 2 coats of Intertuf 16.

[Arthur Marshall]

4 minutes ago, booke23 said:

Just had my 40 footer blacked last month. The yard charged £14/ft + VAT, but have a 50ft minimum charge so it came to £840. This included slippage, power washing, scraping, rotary wire brushing and 2 coats of Intertuf 16.

Thanks, I've just accepted a quote of £800.  Last time it got done was £400 so I gulped a bit but everything's gone up since then so I'm not complaining! I've not had the 2 pac stuff before last time - how often would you reckon to get it redone? Bitumen was every three years but this stuff should last longer...

[Hudds Lad]

Hard for my pea brain to work out as our bill was all in square metres, but i think it works out to £22 a square foot plus VAT on top in Hempel 2 pk

[booke23]

9 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Thanks, I've just accepted a quote of £800.  Last time it got done was £400 so I gulped a bit but everything's gone up since then so I'm not complaining! I've not had the 2 pac stuff before last time - how often would you reckon to get it redone? Bitumen was every three years but this stuff should last longer...

 

That seems reasonable for 2 pac. The yard initially thought my boat was 2 pac and mentioned it would be closer to £1000 if it was. I should say where I am there is little competition so the cost was probably higher than the average....the nearest alternative decent yard requires passage through 37 wide locks and at least 4 days cruising to get to. 

 

As for how long 2 pac lasts, I think it depends on how many scrapes it's had. I've heard people mention you should check it every 5-6 years and touch up any scrapes. Of course checking it (slippage and power washing it) is quite a lot of cost in itself so it might be worth just getting it recoated while it's out. I'm speaking without any experience of 2 pac, just thinking aloud!

Edited August 24, 2023 by booke23

[Arthur Marshall]

38 minutes ago, booke23 said:

 

That seems reasonable for 2 pac. The yard initially thought my boat was 2 pac and mentioned it would be closer to £1000 if it was. I should say where I am there is little competition so the cost was probably higher than the average....the nearest alternative decent yard requires passage through 37 wide locks and at least 4 days cruising to get to. 

 

As for how long 2 pac lasts, I think it depends on how many scrapes it's had. I've heard people mention you should check it every 5-6 years and touch up any scrapes. Of course checking it (slippage and power washing it) is quite a lot of cost in itself so it might be worth just getting it recoated while it's out. I'm speaking without any experience of 2 pac, just thinking aloud!

Thanks again. The boat was resteeled about ten years ago and I want a look at the bit above the new steel when they've cleaned it. It was blacked about six years ago so seems about right.

[blackrose]

Does your quote for two pack epoxy include grit blasting to get all the old bitumen off first? If so it's a bargain. If not don't bother using two pack and stick to bitumen.

 

Also try to avoid using the terms "blacking" and "two-pack" interchangeably. Most people will understand blacking to mean painting with bitumen. Epoxying is a completely different painting process and you can't compare the two, but most people responding here are giving you costs for basic blacking which is fairly meaningless if you're considering two-pack epoxy.

 

Edit: Also if they are grit blasting and taking it all back to bare steel do yourself a favour and get a quote for 3 coats of epoxy. Do you know which brand/product they're using and find out if they follow the technical data sheet for the product. Most boat yards have some diddy who just slaps blacking on without reading or understanding anything and you can't do that with epoxy.

 

The main things to understand are:

- Which hardener is being used (standard or winter grade)?

- Mixing ratios by volume or weight.

- Minimum/maximum overcoating times according to temperature.

- Cured for service time after the final coat before reimmersion.

 

That information will all be in the TDS and if the yard don't know forget about using them to epoxy your boat, save yourself some money and let them slap on some bitumen.

Edited August 24, 2023 by blackrose

[jonesthenuke]

We had our boat blasted and 2 packed with Dacrylate. About 4 years later we had it dry docked for anodes, some painting and to check the 2 pack  coating which was very good. I gave it another 2 coats of 2 pack , this time with Hempel Hempadur.   Hempel recommended pressure washing plus lightly abrading the surface with a wire brush in an angle grinder in order to provide an adequate key. 

 

You may need to follow the same process, the wire brushing is not hard work but adds about a day to the process as the large area means it takes a lot of time.

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, jonesthenuke said:

We had our boat blasted and 2 packed with Dacrylate. About 4 years later we had it dry docked for anodes, some painting and to check the 2 pack  coating which was very good. I gave it another 2 coats of 2 pack , this time with Hempel Hempadur.   Hempel recommended pressure washing plus lightly abrading the surface with a wire brush in an angle grinder in order to provide an adequate key. 

 

You may need to follow the same process, the wire brushing is not hard work but adds about a day to the process as the large area means it takes a lot of time.

 

But Arthur has said his boat hasn't been epoxied before so it won't be the same process. His boat will need taking back to bare steel.

[jonesthenuke]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

But Arthur has said his boat hasn't been epoxied before so it won't be the same process. His boat will need taking back to bare steel.

 

I assumed he has had it coated with 2 pack, in his comment he said "I've not had the 2 pac stuff before last time - how often would you reckon to get it redone? " Thus blasting will not be required.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

13 minutes ago, jonesthenuke said:

 

I assumed he has had it coated with 2 pack, in his comment he said "I've not had the 2 pac stuff before last time - how often would you reckon to get it redone? " Thus blasting will not be required.

 

Yes, the original was bitumen. Then the last yard knocked what was left of it off and put 2 pac on, so I assume it'll be fine to do the same this time. As the stuff hasn't fallen off over the years, I'm assuming he did a good job, he usually did. One of the reliable few, now retired.

[jonathanA]

we do need to be careful here - some yards offer 2 pack bitumen - not epoxy, but like epoxy relies on a chemical reaction to harden rather than solvent drying and can be painted over most bitumen blacking AIUI. 

 

I paid about £1000 for a 50ft so £800 for 40 ft seems reasonable. if it really is proper 2 pack epoxy its still seems reasonable. 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by jonathanA
x posted with Arthurs reply

[blackrose]

15 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Yes, the original was bitumen. Then the last yard knocked what was left of it off and put 2 pac on, so I assume it'll be fine to do the same this time. As the stuff hasn't fallen off over the years, I'm assuming he did a good job, he usually did. One of the reliable few, now retired.

 

Ah ok I misunderstood. In that case just get the yard to key the surface well with a medium grit paper and apply the same epoxy. I think prep with an angle grinder/wire brush wheel is going in a bit heavy unless you've got rust patches.

18 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

we do need to be careful here - some yards offer 2 pack bitumen - not epoxy, but like epoxy relies on a chemical reaction to harden rather than solvent drying and can be painted over most bitumen blacking AIUI. 

 

I paid about £1000 for a 50ft so £800 for 40 ft seems reasonable. if it really is proper 2 pack epoxy its still seems reasonable. 

 

 

Ok that's a new one on me. Never heard of two pack bitumen.

[Arthur Marshall]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Ah ok I misunderstood. In that case just get the yard to key the surface well with a medium grit paper and apply the same epoxy. I think prep with an angle grinder/wire brush wheel is going in a bit heavy unless you've got rust patches.

 

 

That's what they're planning, it seems. It's the same yard that did a first rate job on replating the boat, so I'm expecting a decent job. The price just gave me a bit if a jolt, but then what doesn't, these days...

[cuthound]

22 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Thanks, I've just accepted a quote of £800.  Last time it got done was £400 so I gulped a bit but everything's gone up since then so I'm not complaining! I've not had the 2 pac stuff before last time - how often would you reckon to get it redone? Bitumen was every three years but this stuff should last longer...

 

My boat was blacked with 2 pack from new and it lasted 12 years. It was subsequently re-blacked with the same 2 pack and there are a couple of small areas on the waterline that need re-doing after less than 4 years  

[Peanut]

Down here in a lumpy water marina, it will cost over £400 to have a 57ft (ca. 17 m) narrow boat, lifted, pressure washed, and blocked off.  Then the same again to have it put back in.  You either do it yourself, or pay the marina around £1,000 for labour plus the cost of the blacking, to do it for you, all in their own good time.  Cheep as chips up North.

[Tony1]

 

Northwich drydock (down on the weaver) did my 50 footer with 2 pac about a month ago and it cost £1500 for the lot (with them doing all the labour), but bear in mind that included the base plate, which many yards can't do.

If you could drag in a friend to help, you could save a few hundred by washing and blacking it yourself. 

 

As has been said before, they use a very high pressure washer, and lots of the old blacking comes off with that, so lots of small patches of bare metal are left visible after the wash. I'll see if I can find the photo later, if it will help. 

 

They are first class though- super helpful, and they don't cut corners, unlike a few places I've heard bad rumours about.  If you're interested I can PM you with the names of the ones I've heard bad things about.

 

The guy there was telling me about two boats he'd had in recently- one was 30 years old and had had the base plate blacked regularly, and he said the plate was almost immaculate. The boat beside it was maybe 15 years old and had extensive pits up to 4-6mm in the base plate, and the owners are now looking at very expensive remedial work at some point in the next few years. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Tony1

[Markypoo]

We had our 3 year old 68ft widebeam paint work faults remedied at a yard on the river soar as part of a well respected builders paint warranty. As a "goodwill gesture" the broker and the owner of the boat building compny suggested a blacking whilst it was out of the water although I still had to part with £800 as half of the cost (cranage). This was done in Sep 23, 7 months after purchasing the boat just before loading the boat onto a trailer to transport onto the GU. Checking it as it was loaded onto the truck there were fresh water mussels still attached that had been blacked over and thin patches could easily be seen. But the boat was being loaded ready for the journey, (another tale).

On arrival at the marina on the GU the workshop manager there was disgusted with the state of the blacking and I demonstrated the state by wiping my finger on the hull and watched my finger get blacker with bitumen.

I agreed to having the boat done again at that well respected marina/workshop with two coats of epoxy to be done in two months hence (Nov 23) just 2 months since the bitumen went on. The boat was lowered into the water and slicks of bitumen appeared all around the boat.

We moved the boat onto the cut and have travelled a couple of miles waiting for the epoxy to be done. Leaving the boat in the hands of the marina we stayed in a hotel and returned a week later with the boat back in the water. Another £1850

We travelled about 4 miles and holed up for the winter and then noticed that the epoxy was peeling and flaking off.

Now returned the boat for more remedial work under warranty just 2 months since being epoxied.

Staying calm externally but seething with anger inside.

£2600 spent on blacking, a full year of hanging around waiting for slots and no cruising done. Our boat has spent more time hanging from a crane than floating.

The moral of this story is if you want a job doing right, do it yourself. Once this "remedial" work is done the only blacking work in the future will be done by me.

[Arthur Marshall]

To be honest, if a 40ft narrowboat costs a grand for epoxy blacking, less than double that for a boat almost four times as big when it would need the bitumen taken off as well seems like a cheap job. I'll be interested in reading more comments.

As I've said before, I've given up expecting any job done on a boat, by an engineer or a yard, ever to be done properly. Almost everything has to be done twice and then checked carefully and finished off by yourself (I exclude from that the bloke at Heritage who has done me two perfect jobs, but he's unique). As far as I can tell, my boat's resteeling at Stoke is ok (I've not sunk yet) and the epoxy has stayed on, not that I care that much about the latter.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

when it would need the bitumen taken off as well seems like a cheap job. I'll be interested in reading more comments.

 

 

That could be why the Epoxy is falling off - it wasn't properly removed !

 

 

2 hours ago, Markypoo said:

We travelled about 4 miles and holed up for the winter and then noticed that the epoxy was peeling and flaking off.

 

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, Markypoo said:

We had our 3 year old 68ft widebeam paint work faults remedied at a yard on the river soar as part of a well respected builders paint warranty. As a "goodwill gesture" the broker and the owner of the boat building compny suggested a blacking whilst it was out of the water although I still had to part with £800 as half of the cost (cranage). This was done in Sep 23, 7 months after purchasing the boat just before loading the boat onto a trailer to transport onto the GU. Checking it as it was loaded onto the truck there were fresh water mussels still attached that had been blacked over and thin patches could easily be seen. But the boat was being loaded ready for the journey, (another tale).

On arrival at the marina on the GU the workshop manager there was disgusted with the state of the blacking and I demonstrated the state by wiping my finger on the hull and watched my finger get blacker with bitumen.

I agreed to having the boat done again at that well respected marina/workshop with two coats of epoxy to be done in two months hence (Nov 23) just 2 months since the bitumen went on. The boat was lowered into the water and slicks of bitumen appeared all around the boat.

We moved the boat onto the cut and have travelled a couple of miles waiting for the epoxy to be done. Leaving the boat in the hands of the marina we stayed in a hotel and returned a week later with the boat back in the water. Another £1850

We travelled about 4 miles and holed up for the winter and then noticed that the epoxy was peeling and flaking off.

Now returned the boat for more remedial work under warranty just 2 months since being epoxied.

Staying calm externally but seething with anger inside.

£2600 spent on blacking, a full year of hanging around waiting for slots and no cruising done. Our boat has spent more time hanging from a crane than floating.

The moral of this story is if you want a job doing right, do it yourself. Once this "remedial" work is done the only blacking work in the future will be done by me.

 

The time you said " well respected marina/ workshop " shows your naivety and lack of use of the forum search facility.

The well respected builders/brokers paint warranty fails and history of blacking boats also has featured heavily.

 

2 hours ago, Markypoo said:

 

We travelled about 4 miles and holed up for the winter and then noticed that the epoxy was peeling and flaking off.

 

Perhaps that was your own fault, mooring next to a major trunk road for 8 weeks with the acidic run off surrounding your boat during the wettest Winter on record.

[Arthur Marshall]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

That could be why the Epoxy is falling off - it wasn't properly removed !

 

 

 

Interestingly, I'm very unconvinced that all the bitumen was removed before my old tub was epoxied six years ago, but the epoxy certainly stayed on and so has the new stuff. I do wonder how many of these essential preparation jobs are really that crucial.

[LadyG]

I believe my boat was epoxied from new plus some primer, I say thus because it was a matt grey colour and totally free of rust after twenty years. I saw it on the hard and instructed that it should be epoxied, but my instruction was ignored, boat launched two days later.

I had it out about eighteen months later, at a different yard.

Again it was as clean as a whistle.

I coated it with Jotun 90 as instructed by SML Paints, three coats on the vulnerable bits, two coats overall. No sign of rust.

Epoxy needs much more time to cure, than anything bitumen based therefore i had the boat out for eight days in fine dry summer weather. It was easy to do, though I could not manage the baseplate. I'd like to have it out again if the opportunity arises, but as much for cosmetic reasons, as anything.

I would not have anyone do anything if I'm not there, they may talk the talk, but if you don't supervise the work you are likely to get a sub optimum job, in my experience.

[Arthur Marshall]

35 minutes ago, LadyG said:

 

I would not have anyone do anything if I'm not there, they may talk the talk, but if you don't supervise the work you are likely to get a sub optimum job, in my experience.

Aint that the truth. I didn't manage to get down while the boat was blacked last time, but I do trust the lads at that yard, especially as they've just taken it over and want to get a good rep. I did go down every week when they were doing the steel.