Dangerous lockie behaviour on the C&H

[Machpoint005]

23 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

In the meantime, don't give your windlass to anyone, why would you - I certainly haven't, and never will unless they are part of my group (and even one of those is banned after throwing my Dunton in one of the Stoke Bruerne flight!).

 

Unlikely, I know, but borrowing a tool is a no-no. If the borrower didn't have a windlass it's reasonable to assume he shouldn't have one at all.

 

Supposing the borrowed one was faulty and caused someone an injury? OK, there's not a lot to go wrong with a windless, unless a socket is badly worn, or an unsuspected weld is about to let go ...

 

 

[LadyG]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

Or he was a CRT employee (group leader/supervisor?) but not trained/qualified/insured to operate locks for boaters.

 

Because if he was, the golden rule for volockies -- according to a friend who is one at Hanwell -- is "you must wear a lifejacket" because this is a H&S condition imposed by insurers, otherwise it's negligence if they fall in and drown.

 

Either way, it's not fair to blame volockies for something a non-volocky did -- and no need to, according to many on here real volockies do enough bad things without needing any extra ones adding on... 😉

You did not read my posts.

[Tacet]

The last occasion LadyG recounted a similar experience, a little digging by others suggested she had asked someone on the lockside to assist, lent her windlass and then didn't like the way they helped.

As far as could be made out, the someone was not a lockeeper of any sort - but may have had another CRT connection.

[LadyG]

Just now, Tacet said:

The last occasion LadyG recounted a similar experience, a little digging by others suggested she had asked someone on the lockside to assist, lent her windlass and then didn't like the way they helped.

As far as could be made out, the someone was not a lockeeper of any sort - but may have had another CRT connection.

Memories may vary.

Mysogeny is ever to the fore on this forum. 

[IanD]

32 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You did not read my posts.

I did -- you said you'd seen him before wearing a CART shirt and lifejacket, but this time he wasn't.

 

You keep calling him a volockie but there's no proof that he is, and several things that suggest he isn't -- supervising a group of painters, not wearing a lifejacket (the second time), not having a windlass. He's very likely a CART employee, but quite possibly (probably?) not one trained/qualified/insured to help boats through locks i.e. a lockie/volockie.

 

What he certainly is -- given his behaviour -- is a p*llock who who shouldn't be doing what he's doing... 😞

Edited June 14, 2023 by IanD

[Tam & Di]

Firstly I have to confess that I've not boated on UK canals since volunteer lock keepers came into being, but I'm very confused here. I cannot for one moment imagine lending a windlass to someone who says he will help, whatever the circumstances and whatever jacket he might have on, and especially if I were on my own. It means I would be totaly powerless and with no way to intervene. It does seem to me that volockies have changed boaters' expectations of what is normal. In my world there were professional lock-keepers or I worked them myself. Even should I OK anyone offering assistance they would have to be watched like a hawk and told exactly what I wanted of them. This world where you have strangers with unknown experience working at locks  is a world totally outside of mine, and appears to take away personal responsibility.

 

Tam

6 minutes ago, IanD said:

What he certainly is -- given his behaviour -- is a p*llock who who shouldn't be doing what he's doing... 😞

 I'd go further and suggest that there is no way the OP should have even contemplated allowing him to interfere with her passage through a lock. It is her job, and her responsibility to do it or have it done competently. On her own I can see why she got into the postition she relates, but it simply requires more self confidence to tell such people to go away and leave you alone to do the job yourself.

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I have no idea if he is a volunteer, I suspect he works for CRT. He's the only one I've seen twice, we don't have many volunteers as far as I can work out. He was incharge of a load of painting people, so "group leader" 

Aparently CRT have no idea how to identify their staff. Don't know who is working in an area. In this instance there were about five painters and this guy. All had blue CRT shirts none had lifejackets. They did a good job of painting, though not sure over painting the black noticeboard legs with white will be a good thing in the long term.

 

 

Was this at Battyford lock?

Edited June 14, 2023 by Midnight

[haggis]

9 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

What he certainly is -- given his behaviour -- is a p*llock who who shouldn't be doing what he's doing... 😞

But he was a helpful p*llock helping a lady boater on her own. I can just imagine what would be said by a boater if they asked for help from someone they assumed was a volunteer lockie and they were told 'no'. Ok if he was not trained to work locks he shouldn't have helped but I think he was probably just trying to help a lady on her own

 

 

[Midnight]

14 minutes ago, haggis said:

But he was a helpful p*llock helping a lady boater on her own. I can just imagine what would be said by a boater if they asked for help from someone they assumed was a volunteer lockie and they were told 'no'. Ok if he was not trained to work locks he shouldn't have helped but I think he was probably just trying to help a lady on her own

 

 

Only a pillock would assume this guy was a pillock before getting to the bottom of this story. I have an idea what may have happened here. Let's see if LadyG confirms where this happened. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Midnight

[ditchcrawler]

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

I did -- you said you'd seen him before wearing a CART shirt and lifejacket, but this time he wasn't.

 

You keep calling him a volockie but there's no proof that he is, and several things that suggest he isn't -- supervising a group of painters, not wearing a lifejacket (the second time), not having a windlass. He's very likely a CART employee, but quite possibly (probably?) not one trained/qualified/insured to help boats through locks i.e. a lockie/volockie.

 

What he certainly is -- given his behaviour -- is a p*llock who who shouldn't be doing what he's doing... 😞

Could have been the minibus driver even but LadyG wants him to be, end of

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Only a pillock would assume this guy was a pillock before getting to the bottom of this story. I have an idea what may have happened here. Let's see if LadyG confirms where this happened. 

If it was at Battyford, what do you think happened? It sounds like you have a suspicion who he is...

[Midnight]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

If it was at Battyford, what do you think happened? It sounds like you have a suspicion who he is...

Yes

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Midnight said:

Yes

So is this putative person a volockie, a CART employee, both, or neither? 😉

[Midnight]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

So is this putative person a volockie, a CART employee, both, or neither? 😉

I don't know where it was so can't comment.

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I don't believe that he is not employed by CRT, I don't believe CRT have no idea that people are painting their property wearing their kit, conspiracy theory gone mad.

I didn't say he wasn't employed by CRT. I said he wasn't employed by CRT as a lockie and that's why they can't trace him from their lockie lists.

Me, if he got me safely through a lock, I'd just be grateful I didn't have to do it myself, especially if I didn't want to, as you apparently didn't!

[LadyG]

40 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

Firstly I have to confess that I've not boated on UK canals since volunteer lock keepers came into being, but I'm very confused here. I cannot for one moment imagine lending a windlass to someone who says he will help, whatever the circumstances and whatever jacket he might have on, and especially if I were on my own. It means I would be totaly powerless and with no way to intervene. It does seem to me that volockies have changed boaters' expectations of what is normal. In my world there were professional lock-keepers or I worked them myself. Even should I OK anyone offering assistance they would have to be watched like a hawk and told exactly what I wanted of them. This world where you have strangers with unknown experience working at locks  is a world totally outside of mine, and appears to take away personal responsibility.

 

Tam

 I'd go further and suggest that there is no way the OP should have even contemplated allowing him to interfere with her passage through a lock. It is her job, and her responsibility to do it or have it done competently. On her own I can see why she got into the postition she relates, but it simply requires more self confidence to tell such people to go away and leave you alone to do the job yourself.

There are no instructions on most locks, and one learns by experience, there is no training course. It's more likely that people who are working these locks every day would know the idiosyncrasies, why should they be less competetent than a crew who have just been through them this once? Any crewed boat will start with no experience. 

I have had advice and assistance from CRT personnel, most of it valuable, some situations are impossible to sort without assistance of professionals.

Now, some locks on the C&H require someone to move the boat in the lock and someone to open the lock, I have asked random people to assist, it's not rocket science, anyone can do it.

I suspect a lot of people have never singlehanded.

Anyone who gets in to a car as a passenger has "abdicated responsibility" if you choose to be pedantic.

[Ianws]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

Memories may vary.

Mysogeny is ever to the fore on this forum. 

 

 

There might be misogyny at play in the way some volunteers act  but there's a

also a need to take personal responsibility for yourself and your boat. If the volunteer, however  experienced, is doing something you aren't comfortable with, tell them and insist what happens next. It's your home after all .

Edited June 14, 2023 by Ianws

[Midnight]

Below is LadyG's answer on the other volockie thread. I'll add some context here as it's more relevant.

"I don't know why it is relevant, that lock has a notice with white painted posts, the beams were newly black and white. They had been painting a few locks over the previous few days, I know this because I asked them, as I did not want my boat or my ropes contaminated. Battyford was one of the locks I went through, but I did other locks too."

Those people painting Battyford Lock are members of the Calder & Hebble Navigation Society (the people who kept the C&H open when the powers that be wished to close it) They are doing voluntary work on behalf of C&RT. I would estimate that between them they have about 200 years experience in both boatng and maintaining the C&H. At least one is a C&RT Vollie as well. You were asked if you wanted assistance, presumably you accepted, then you complain that one of them turned his back on you whilst opening a paddle. What were the others doing if not keeping an eye on proceeding?  Battyford is one of the longer C&H locks. I know those people and I can vouch for their competency. After reading some of your past posts including your rudder issues I suggest your account is a little over dramatic. However I will contact the CNS tomorrow and if they wish to respond I will post their side of the story.

[LadyG]

8 minutes ago, Midnight said:

Below is LadyG's answer on the other volockie thread. I'll add some context here as it's more relevant.

"I don't know why it is relevant, that lock has a notice with white painted posts, the beams were newly black and white. They had been painting a few locks over the previous few days, I know this because I asked them, as I did not want my boat or my ropes contaminated. Battyford was one of the locks I went through, but I did other locks too."

Those people painting Battyford Lock are members of the Calder & Hebble Navigation Society (the people who kept the C&H open when the powers that be wished to close it) They are doing voluntary work on behalf of C&RT. I would estimate that between them they have about 200 years experience in both boatng and maintaining the C&H. At least one is a C&RT Vollie as well. You were asked if you wanted assistance, presumably you accepted, then you complain that one of them turned his back on you whilst opening a paddle. What were the others doing if not keeping an eye on proceeding?  Battyford is one of the longer C&H locks. I know those people and I can vouch for their competency. After reading some of your past posts including your rudder issues I suggest your account is a little over dramatic. However I will contact the CNS tomorrow and if they wish to respond I will post their side of the story.

Don't bother. I'm fed up with the whole thing.

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, haggis said:

But he was a helpful p*llock helping a lady boater on her own. I can just imagine what would be said by a boater if they asked for help from someone they assumed was a volunteer lockie and they were told 'no'. Ok if he was not trained to work locks he shouldn't have helped but I think he was probably just trying to help a lady on her own

 

 

Exactly, I like having help with locks: in the past I have being put through a lock by a sensible and interested passerby who worked the paddles carefully under my instructions. I have on occasion been assisted by a passing person who is a boater but is not carrying his windlass. I have myself asked boaters if they want a hand, sometimes they do, sometimes they are happy for one to push the gates but no more.

One has to assess people when one meets them. I do occasionally ask someone to open gates if I am stuck down in a lock with self closing doors. I don't think I need to find a boater in order to wiggle a boat through gates. To

[Midnight]

8 hours ago, LadyG said:

Don't bother. I'm fed up with the whole thing.

 

Speaks volumes!

 

Your complaint "....................then tells a random person to wind the paddles with their back to your boat."
The paddles at Battyeford, like all along the C & H are very stiff and require two hands and a fair bit of strength. How would you expect someone to wind the paddle up facing the boat in the lock? The operator would need to stand wrong side of the beam and wind, in effect, backwards.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Midnight

[Jon57]

17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Exactly, I like having help with locks: in the past I have being put through a lock by a sensible and interested passerby who worked the paddles carefully under my instructions. I have on occasion been assisted by a passing person who is a boater but is not carrying his windlass. I have myself asked boaters if they want a hand, sometimes they do, sometimes they are happy for one to push the gates but no more.

One has to assess people when one meets them. I do occasionally ask someone to open gates if I am stuck down in a lock with self closing doors. I don't think I need to find a boater in order to wiggle a boat through gates. To

Your instruction to the offender must not have been  up to much then for all this drama.🤪

[robtheplod]

Surely any genuine CRT vlokkie will always have their own windlass?

[Midnight]

Having spoken to CNS please let me shed some further light on this issue.
Yesterday the Battyeford lock painting volunteers finished at 12noon as it was too hot to continue. LadyG reported that the time was 3pm. None of the paint team were wearing C&RT tops they have their own CNS tee-shirts. No sign legs were painted white by them. They had with them two windlasses and would not need to borrow one. Two members present are C&RT vollies and the others are all trained in lock operation. They did help two boats through the lock yesterday but each was known to them and certainly not 'LadyG'. 

I suggest that the group LadyG encountered where either passers-by or one of the crews of the nearby Charity Safe Anchor Trust - all trained as they provide outings for disabled passengers.

 

In the circumstances and assuming the title of this thread, which seems now to be highly offensive and, cannot be changed I suggest LadyG posts an apology to all C&RT and CNS volunteers along the Calder & Hebble. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Midnight

[adam1uk]

I don’t think it’s supposed to have happened yesterday.