Anchor rope size

[howardang]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

That looks a rather more stable and seaworthy vessel than a NB

In the top left corner click on Next Image for a narrowboat in similar circumstances.

 

Howard

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, howardang said:

In the top left corner click on Next Image for a narrowboat in similar circumstances.

 

Howard

 

 

That is a good example ................ Once the water starts to pile up against the side of the boat the outcome has already been decided.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[Peugeot 106]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

That is a good example ................ Once the water starts to pile up against the side of the boat the outcome has already been decided.

 

 

It certainly looks hairy. Did the Narrowboat stay upright in the conditions or was it a gonner? Does anybody know? Notwithstanding water ingress exhaust, and any other openings. I think mine (cruiser)would be taking water over the stern at that point. It does look a little down at the stern

[howardang]

6 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

It certainly looks hairy. Did the Narrowboat stay upright in the conditions or was it a gonner? Does anybody know? Notwithstanding water ingress exhaust, and any other openings. I think mine (cruiser)would be taking water over the stern at that point. It does look a little down at the stern

I have no knowledge of the outcome.

However, it is also maybe worth  pointing out to those boaters who may not be aware,  that the problem of rolling over in similar circumstances is not confined to boats being trapped alongside such booms. It can also happen if you run aground in a river and broach so that the boat is broadside to the current. In that case, the current sluicing past the boat flows under and around  the hull and depending on the current strength it can scour the river bed from under the vessel, especially on the up current side, forming a hole in which the vessel will roll into, increasing the list and possibly leading to capsize. A very good reason for boaters on rivers with strong currents to be aware of the dangers of running aground,  and for  being aware of where the safe channel is, and in particular not cutting corners.

 

Howard

 

 

[Peugeot 106]

It would be very interesting to hear from Bolina Booms. I’m afraid i’m off out for a couple of days. Alan would it be really cheeky to ask you to give them a ring and discuss their experiences?

[magnetman]

These floats are made to protect weirs from the intrusion of debris. Debris blocking vital flood relief infrastructure is bad news. 

 

A boat sitting against one of these things is debris. Flotsam.

 

The best thing to happen would be for the boat to sink and sit on the river bed before it can reach the weir and block a gate or worse damage the structure. 

 

 

The ones in the image seem suitably distant from the weir but I suppose some must be closer and maybe not capable of sinking the boat fast enough. 

[David Mack]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

These floats are made to protect weirs from the intrusion of debris. Debris blocking vital flood relief infrastructure is bad news. 

Since you generally only see them on navigable rivers, I suspect their primary purpose is to act both as a warning and as a barrier for boats. 

Debris isn't a problem for open weirs, as in times of flood it is just carried straight over.

[magnetman]

I meant large pieces of debris such as boats. 

A wide bean canal boat ended up on the Nelson piles above Sunbury lock in flood conditions recently. It ended up coming away and worked the stern into one of the open gates and jammed in there. Bad news as the tug crews don't usually go out on red boards. 

 

They did go out and pulled it off with a tug and it sunk in the River which was a far better outcome than leaving it blocking the weir gate. 

 

Later salvaged and sold as a project. 

 

 

 

[howardang]

44 minutes ago, Peugeot 106 said:

It would be very interesting to hear from Bolina Booms. I’m afraid i’m off out for a couple of days. Alan would it be really cheeky to ask you to give them a ring and discuss their experiences?

It might be worth remembering that Bolina Booms are the manufacturers of the booms. They may not know such details.

 

Howard

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, howardang said:

It might be worth remembering that Bolina Booms are the manufacturers of the booms. They may not know such details.

Given the claims they make on the Web page linked to earlier, one would hope they know how their products perform:

 

"These booms – most commonly our Safety Booms range – create a safety barrier that prevent even the smallest of craft from passing through."

...

"As mentioned previously, these booms have served an important purpose over the last 20 years, and have saved a variety of watercrafts, ranging from houseboats to narrow boats and barges, from being damaged or lost, after boaters have lost control of their craft and ventured into unsafe areas."

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

"These booms – most commonly our Safety Booms range – create a safety barrier that prevent even the smallest of craft from passing through."

 

Very carefully written by the Marketing Dept.

 

Nothing about then rolling under the boom !

[Strettonman]

Thanks everyone for the comments. It looks like I’m ditching the folding anchor, putting on a decent length of chain, getting 20-30m of a strong stretchy rope and checking whether my T-studs are up to the job. 
This was just the type of advice I was looking for to thanks again. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Strettonman said:

I’m ditching the folding anchor,

 

And replacing it ??????????????

 

The Kobra is a very good anchor and at a low price is ideal (I have one on my Cruiser)

 

The one I have on my sailing catamaran (a Mantus) is a better performer, but weighs 3x the Kobra and costs almost 5 times the price.

 

I picked my 10kg one up secondhand for £60.

New they are around £150 and upwards

 

The heavier ones (12kg and upwards) can be disassembled for storage so when going on a river you can just assemble it and keep it in / on the bow ready to deploy.

Sometimes the heavier ones are a lower price I've seen a 'new' 16kg at £129 including shipping from Italy. It says VAT inclusive but who knows now how it works ?

 

Note : NOT ALL PLOUGH ANCHORS are the same.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

And replacing it ??????????????

 

The Kobra is a very good anchor and at a low price is ideal (I have one on my Cruiser)

 

The one I have on my sailing catamaran (a Mantus) is a better performer, but weighs 3x the Kobra and costs almost 10 times the price.

 

 

For your boat a 10kg Kobra will be fine, it has better holding power than a 20kg Danforth (a 14kg or 20kg Danforth is commonly used on narrowboats) and is a lot easier to handle. It has the advantage over the 12kg and bigger that it folds, so if an emergency happens without any advance planning (which they often do, especially when people get complacent...) you can use it immediately without having to find and fit the bolt/nut (and spanners...) needed for the bigger ones.

 

For hand-deploying on a narrowboat (no anchor winch) it's recommended to have at least 5m of chain (8mm), and rope about 5x the chain length (14mm nylon anchorplait is recommended) -- longer for both may be better but takes more space, and 30m total should be fine for your likely use case.

 

Total cost should be something like £250.

Edited April 20, 2023 by IanD

[howardang]

1 hour ago, Strettonman said:

Thanks everyone for the comments. It looks like I’m ditching the folding anchor, putting on a decent length of chain, getting 20-30m of a strong stretchy rope and checking whether my T-studs are up to the job. 
This was just the type of advice I was looking for to thanks again. 

Stand by now for another raft of advice from the experts with recommendations for their favourite anchors. Try not to get too confused and at least I'm glad to see that you will be replacing the grapnel "anchor".

 

Howard

[bizzard]

Talking of Booms,  Lulu sang a song called Boom Banga Bang and won the Eurovision song contest.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, howardang said:

Stand by now for another raft of advice from the experts with recommendations for their favourite anchors

 

Well, by no means is the Kobra my 'favourite anchor', but, as I doubt that anyone on the inland waterways would pay £1000 for the 30kg anchor that I'd recommend as my 'favourite' they'd also say "its too heavy to lift".

 

The Kobra is a good compromise of weight, performance, convenience and cost.

 

The earlier generation of anchors (Danforth, Bruce, CQR etc etc) are very dated and the new generation of anchors offer far superior performance 'at a cost' but are probably rarely going to be needed on our Rivers - unless they are in flood.

 

 

 

[DHutch]

On 18/04/2023 at 13:23, IanD said:

A 12 kg Kobra would do a better job on 22 tons than your 25kg Danforth, according to multiple tests, and be *much* easier to deploy.

(which is why a 10kg one is fine for me with 18 tons, and has the advantage over the 12kg of not needing the spade assembling before deploying)

Sounds good.

 

Do you have a link to a example test report?

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, DHutch said:

Sounds good.

 

Do you have a link to a example test report?

https://www.chainsropesandanchors.co.nz/image/data/PDFs/Yachting Monthly -Anchor Test Nov09.pdf

[howardang]

At the slight risk of disturbing another hare, the history of the subject of anchor choices has been debated over and over and over again on this forum, but very little has been mentioned about holding ground. i.e. the nature of the river bed where an anchor might be deployed. Mainly, I suspect, this is because no-one really has much knowledge compared to offshore where this information is readily available worldwide if you have the appropriate chart.

 

Howard

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, DHutch said:

Sounds good.

 

There is an even better (and as cheap) anchor compared to the Kobra - it is called the Beugel, but for NB use it would be difficult as it is one piece, so unless you stowed it on the roof its not going to fit in any locker.

 

 

As well as the Kobra, I carry 2 spare anchors, one of which is the 15kg Beugal.

It looks deceptively simple but the angles are critcal to ensure a quick and easy set.

 

 

 

 

I have a report from a 'round the world sailing boat who rates them very highly for setting "first time every time"

 

 

THE ALMOST NEVER FAIL CATAMARAN ANCHORING SYSTEM

Exit Only performed the first half of her circumnavigation navigation using CQR anchors, and the second half using a Beugel anchor.

We started our circumnavigation with a 45 pound CQR, and we dragged it all over the Pacific Ocean.  By the time we reached Tonga, we were tired of dragging anchor, and we moved up to a 60 pound CQR.  We thought that the additional weight would keep our CQR from dragging.  Unfortunately it didn't work out as hoped.

 

Even our 60 pound CQR was difficult to set securely in the seabed, and often we would have to make three attempts at anchoring before it held fast.  Unfortunately, if there was a wind shift or current shift that reversed the pull on the anchor, we could not trust it to reset in a secure manner.  That made it difficult to leave Exit Only to go ashore with confidence, because we didn't know whether the anchor was going to drag while we were away.  We always anchored with 200 feet of 3/8 inch high test chain in addition to the 60 pound CQR.

I had resigned myself to an insecure anchoring fate until I cruised with German yachts in New Caledonia.  They had a new anchor called a Beugel.  When we came into an anchorage, they dropped their anchor one time, and it set securely the first time, every time.  In the same seabed, we attempted to set our CQR two or three times before it held.  This happened time and again.  The German yachts anchored closer to shore in more sheltered conditions because their anchors could be trusted.  Their Beugels always held, and if there was a wind shift, their anchors quickly reset, while we were struggling to reset our CQR.

When I arrived in Australia, I decided to get a Beugel Anchor to solve my anchoring woes.  I was tired of dragging anchors and of long anchor watches.

I purchased a seventy pound Beugel anchor, and it transformed the second half of my trip around the world.  The Beugel anchor stuck to the seabed like it was covered in superglue.  It set quickly in the bottom, it didn't drag, and if there was a wind shift, it quickly reset in the new direction.  I finally could sleep soundly through the night because I knew my anchor would hold.

 

The unique geometry of the Beugel combined with it's sharp narrow tip means that it penetrates and digs into the seabed as soon as it hits the bottom.  The semicircular tube on the top of the anchor prevents the anchor from lying upside down on the seabed.  If you have an opportunity to play with a Beugel anchor on dry ground, you will instantly understand why it digs in so quickly and securely.

In the second half of the circumnavigation (from Australia to Florida), there were only two occasions when the Beugel had problems.  Once in the Red Sea, we were anchored on a steeply sloping seabed, and we had to anchor in fifty feet of water.  The seabed was so steep that it was impossible for the Beugel to dig strongly into the bottom.  Although we didn't drag anchor, I could back down on the anchor to seaward and move the anchor.  There was no risk of being blown ashore because in that direction the Beugel would have held like a champion.  The only risk was being blown offshore by strong winds.  It wouldn't have put us in danger, but it would have been inconvenient.

The second time we dragged anchor was in the Canary Islands in a harbor with a rocky bottom.  We were anchored in about forty feet of water, and when a sub-tropical storm came through, we dragged anchor.  That wasn't a big surprise to us because the bottom was rocky and deep.

Those were the only two occasions where I had to carefully watch for dragging of our Beugel anchor.  I reckon that is a good record for the second half of the trip around the world.

The picture at the top of the page shows our customary way of anchoring Exit Only.

First, we set the 70 lb Beugel anchor in the seabed by snubbing it with the engines in reverse.  The anchor stops Exit Only dead in its tracks, and we know the anchor is secure.

Second, we use a one inch three strand nylon bridle attached to our two bows.  This bridle acts as a shock absorber and keeps Exit Only pointing into the wind and seas.

Third, we use an ABI bridle plate to attach our bridle to the chain.

Fourth, we put a large lazy loop of chain into the water.  The lazy loop of chain weighs thirty to forty pounds, and all that weight causes the bridle to hang nearly straight down from the bow of the boat.  When strong winds and rough seas start to pull hard on the chain, the heavy lazy loop holds the bridle deep under water.  It makes the pull of the chain on the anchor more horizontal, and it helps prevent shock loads from being transmitted to the anchor.  All of these factors make it less likely that the anchor will jerk out.

Although no anchor is perfect, the Beugel is the closest thing to anchoring perfection that I have experienced.  I bet my boat  on it many times, and it came through like a champ.

 

 

 

 

[magnetman]

10 minutes ago, howardang said:

At the slight risk of disturbing another hare, the history of the subject of anchor choices has been debated over and over and over again on this forum, but very little has been mentioned about holding ground. i.e. the nature of the river bed where an anchor might be deployed. Mainly, I suspect, this is because no-one really has much knowledge compared to offshore where this information is readily available worldwide if you have the appropriate chart.

 

Howard

 

The country estate boat is moored in a weir stream on the Thames. Up from the weir in quite a narrow chanel so the water can move a bit. 

I placed my lead weighted Smiths patent anchor out in the centre of the chanel last summer but once the River got going and weirs fully drawn it was blown away and ended up alongside. 

Obviously the boat is tied to other things so not a problem but it was quite good the way the thing just didn't work. Flow was too strong and I think the chanel is a bowl shape and hard bed so probably not worth putting an anchor out in the first place. 

always a good idea to know the status of the bottom. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by magnetman

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There is an even better (and as cheap) anchor compared to the Kobra - it is called the Beugel, but for NB use it would be difficult as it is one piece, so unless you stowed it on the roof its not going to fit in any locker.

 

 

As well as the Kobra, I carry 2 spare anchors, one of which is the 15kg Beugal.

It looks deceptively simple but the angles are critcal to ensure a quick and easy set.

 

 

 

 

I have a report from a 'round the world sailing boat who rates them very highly for setting "first time every time"

 

 

THE ALMOST NEVER FAIL CATAMARAN ANCHORING SYSTEM

Exit Only performed the first half of her circumnavigation navigation using CQR anchors, and the second half using a Beugel anchor.

We started our circumnavigation with a 45 pound CQR, and we dragged it all over the Pacific Ocean.  By the time we reached Tonga, we were tired of dragging anchor, and we moved up to a 60 pound CQR.  We thought that the additional weight would keep our CQR from dragging.  Unfortunately it didn't work out as hoped.

 

Even our 60 pound CQR was difficult to set securely in the seabed, and often we would have to make three attempts at anchoring before it held fast.  Unfortunately, if there was a wind shift or current shift that reversed the pull on the anchor, we could not trust it to reset in a secure manner.  That made it difficult to leave Exit Only to go ashore with confidence, because we didn't know whether the anchor was going to drag while we were away.  We always anchored with 200 feet of 3/8 inch high test chain in addition to the 60 pound CQR.

I had resigned myself to an insecure anchoring fate until I cruised with German yachts in New Caledonia.  They had a new anchor called a Beugel.  When we came into an anchorage, they dropped their anchor one time, and it set securely the first time, every time.  In the same seabed, we attempted to set our CQR two or three times before it held.  This happened time and again.  The German yachts anchored closer to shore in more sheltered conditions because their anchors could be trusted.  Their Beugels always held, and if there was a wind shift, their anchors quickly reset, while we were struggling to reset our CQR.

When I arrived in Australia, I decided to get a Beugel Anchor to solve my anchoring woes.  I was tired of dragging anchors and of long anchor watches.

I purchased a seventy pound Beugel anchor, and it transformed the second half of my trip around the world.  The Beugel anchor stuck to the seabed like it was covered in superglue.  It set quickly in the bottom, it didn't drag, and if there was a wind shift, it quickly reset in the new direction.  I finally could sleep soundly through the night because I knew my anchor would hold.

 

The unique geometry of the Beugel combined with it's sharp narrow tip means that it penetrates and digs into the seabed as soon as it hits the bottom.  The semicircular tube on the top of the anchor prevents the anchor from lying upside down on the seabed.  If you have an opportunity to play with a Beugel anchor on dry ground, you will instantly understand why it digs in so quickly and securely.

In the second half of the circumnavigation (from Australia to Florida), there were only two occasions when the Beugel had problems.  Once in the Red Sea, we were anchored on a steeply sloping seabed, and we had to anchor in fifty feet of water.  The seabed was so steep that it was impossible for the Beugel to dig strongly into the bottom.  Although we didn't drag anchor, I could back down on the anchor to seaward and move the anchor.  There was no risk of being blown ashore because in that direction the Beugel would have held like a champion.  The only risk was being blown offshore by strong winds.  It wouldn't have put us in danger, but it would have been inconvenient.

The second time we dragged anchor was in the Canary Islands in a harbor with a rocky bottom.  We were anchored in about forty feet of water, and when a sub-tropical storm came through, we dragged anchor.  That wasn't a big surprise to us because the bottom was rocky and deep.

Those were the only two occasions where I had to carefully watch for dragging of our Beugel anchor.  I reckon that is a good record for the second half of the trip around the world.

The picture at the top of the page shows our customary way of anchoring Exit Only.

First, we set the 70 lb Beugel anchor in the seabed by snubbing it with the engines in reverse.  The anchor stops Exit Only dead in its tracks, and we know the anchor is secure.

Second, we use a one inch three strand nylon bridle attached to our two bows.  This bridle acts as a shock absorber and keeps Exit Only pointing into the wind and seas.

Third, we use an ABI bridle plate to attach our bridle to the chain.

Fourth, we put a large lazy loop of chain into the water.  The lazy loop of chain weighs thirty to forty pounds, and all that weight causes the bridle to hang nearly straight down from the bow of the boat.  When strong winds and rough seas start to pull hard on the chain, the heavy lazy loop holds the bridle deep under water.  It makes the pull of the chain on the anchor more horizontal, and it helps prevent shock loads from being transmitted to the anchor.  All of these factors make it less likely that the anchor will jerk out.

Although no anchor is perfect, the Beugel is the closest thing to anchoring perfection that I have experienced.  I bet my boat  on it many times, and it came through like a champ.

 

 

Though that's the view of two enthusiastic Bugel fans -- Alan and the round-the-world sailor -- in the test it came out a little worse than the Kobra and was *way* more expensive (new) -- and as Alan says, difficult to stow on a narrowboat. Which is very different to sailing around the world in deep waters... 😉

 

TBH there are various "modern" anchors available, all of which are smaller/lighter than a Danforth and perform much better -- which one you get depends on what you can find, for example a cheap secondhand one.

[Ronaldo47]

Fortunately the only time I have needed to use an anchor was in the 1970's when a group of us hired a canal boat and managed to lose one of the mooring pins. Hardly any Armco piling then, and on the occasion when there was nothing suitable to tie the rope to, we deployed the anchor on the towpath.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Ronaldo47

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, IanD said:

was *way* more expensive (new)

 

 

I take it you missed the tester making the point that they had tested the Stainless Steel version which is many, many time more expensive than the Galvanised.

I paid £30 secondhand for mine.

 

New - the 11kg Beugel is £104.99, the 14kg is £120.99, 16kg £131.99

 

The Beugel came 3rd (next behind the Kobra) in the test compariaons.

 

Since its introduction, the Bügel Anchor has been in service world-wide under extreme conditions and proved to be a superb all-around anchor. The ability to quickly set and hold in the most difficult sea bottoms such as mud, clay, shale, gravel, rock and grass is the most appreciated strong point of this truly universal anchor. The WASI GTS (Ground Tackle System) includes a patented anchor-to-chain connectors ("Power Ball") which are German Lloyd's certified with guaranteed higher tensile strength than the mated chain.
From its construction, the bow anchor is simple and very robust. It consists of a plane, almost triangular, fluke with a hollow bow and a long solid shank at which the anchor chain is attached. The shank is welded to the fluke in a well defined - and patented - angle. The anchor has no complicated parts and no movable joints making it robust and simple to manufacture.
Its stiff shape and sharp fluke point, however, make it hard to stow and also may damage the bow gelcoat while the anchor swings from the bow roller on a short length of chain during heaving or lowering. This may be handled with extended bow rollers.