Blown gasket and 1 mile and a flight from a marina

[JollyWonker]

Heys guys - I was hoping I could ask for some advice or perhaps somebody might be in a position to help us if you’re in the area. We have a 70ft narrow boat with a blown head gasket about 1m from the Stratford-upon-Avon canal kings wood junction.

 

We need to get to dry dock, which is about half hour tow (no locks) before a flight of locks which I’ve been told are pretty close so I could pull it through with some effort!

 

I‘m more than happy to pay whatever it takes (plus imagine the boat karma!) for either a tow to the bottom of the flight, support from a fellow boater to get it all the way or finding a professional boat-moving service of sorts. The tow would maybe an hour, and i’m guessing a full day for the full move.

 

Im quite desperate to do this asap..any support or advice you could offer would be massively appreciated.

 

Thanks! 

[Naughty Cal]

There will be a boater passes soon who is willing to give a tow.

 

You don't want to go far.

[David Mack]

It would be more helpful if you said exactly where you are and which dry dock you are heading for.

Have you tried putting up a sign on the boat requesting a tow, or just asking every boat going past in the right direction if they wouldn't mind helping out?

Alcoholic beverages are an acceptable form of payment in this situation.

Edited April 1, 2023 by David Mack

[Victor Vectis]

If the OP is near Kingswood Jn. I'd guess the dry dock is the one three (?) locks down at Hatton, below the pub. I think thats the nearest.

 

But I'm just wondering why he needs a dry dock to fix a head gasket? There are plenty of places in that neck of the woods where a car/van can get near to the canal.

[PaulJ]

Calling @Captain Pegg

You heading back anytime soon...

[JollyWonker]

Hey guys - thanks for replying. I was intentionally vague because I’m not with her and didn’t want to draw attention to it if needed - looking to get to the marina on Wharf lane, which has a dry dock. We also need other blacking and some upgrades and the mechanics who checked it out have suggested I get it to them

So you think the best option is wait by the boat and hitchhike? Cash, cuddles and beer are in abundance and happy to pay 

Edited April 1, 2023 by JollyWonker

[MtB]

I know its not what you asked, but I'd have thought the mechanic at your destination yard would be accustomed to doing towpath repairs and would come out and fix it. Especially as you're only about two miles away. 

 

What engine is it? How certain are you it needs a head gasket? Or is that just a wild guess? 

[Victor Vectis]

MtB is thinking the same as me. And.....

 

I'm guessing where you are and, AFAIK, the boatyard you are talking about does not have a dry dock. In fact i'm pretty sure they don't as they crane boats out for blacking etc.

 

But, to repeat, a blown head gasket doesn't need a dry dock to fix it.

[Alan de Enfield]

If you are only a mile or two, consider bow-hauling. Once its moving you should be able to achieve around 2mph.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you are only a mile or two, consider bow-hauling. Once its moving you should be able to achieve around 2mph.

 

The main problem with bow-hauling any distance is getting past the dozens of moored boats everywhere. DAMHIK.

 

But I'd have thought every other passing boater would be happy to tow the mile to the locks if hailed from the towpath. Then bow-haul solo down the flight where the towpath CMers will be less of a problem.

[Victor Vectis]

If the OP is only a mile or so from the boatyard I think he (she?) is talking about there are moorings next to a pub car park en route. Someone from the boatyard could quite easily come out, park and fettle the engine there.

 

(I've kept the location vague as the OP doesn't want to let on where their boat is moored)

[ditchcrawler]

34 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

The main problem with bow-hauling any distance is getting past the dozens of moored boats everywhere. DAMHIK.

 

But I'd have thought every other passing boater would be happy to tow the mile to the locks if hailed from the towpath. Then bow-haul solo down the flight where the towpath CMers will be less of a problem.

Probably not many boats moving along there, 

 

[Captain Pegg]

3 hours ago, PaulJ said:

Calling @Captain Pegg

You heading back anytime soon...

 

A week too late. I moored for a few days at Kingswood after we met and could have done this easily (towed under full insurance that is) had I still been there.

 

As it happens I'm now 46 locks away and due in dock in Braunston on Monday morning.

 

If the OP can wait two weeks I can be back.

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[JollyWonker]

Thanks for all the advice guys. In response to some of the questions - 

 

Its a BMC 1.8. it originally drew water from the tank but bleeding didn't fix things for long (twice in a few weeks). Called a mechanic from the marina who was super helpful, changed the fuel filter and got her running but air is drawing in around the head gasket. I know it an be done in the water but for some reason towing her to get crained out was suggested but I'll call again on Monday and maybe check availability of others who'll take it out in the water. Don't think its the hugest job if no peripheral damage and I could take to CB for skimming etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

Thanks for all the advice guys. In response to some of the questions - 

 

Its a BMC 1.8. it originally drew water from the tank but bleeding didn't fix things for long (twice in a few weeks). Called a mechanic from the marina who was super helpful, changed the fuel filter and got her running but air is drawing in around the head gasket. I know it an be done in the water but for some reason towing her to get crained out was suggested but I'll call again on Monday and maybe check availability of others who'll take it out in the water. Don't think its the hugest job if no peripheral damage and I could take to CB for skimming etc. 

 

 

Frankly were I to be changing the head gasket, I'd much prefer to do it with the boat in the water. Lugging heavy tools etc up and down a ladder to get in and out of a boat on the hard standing is not my idea of fun.

 

Nor would I be able to test it once finished. 

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

Thanks for all the advice guys. In response to some of the questions - 

 

Its a BMC 1.8. it originally drew water from the tank but bleeding didn't fix things for long (twice in a few weeks). Called a mechanic from the marina who was super helpful, changed the fuel filter and got her running but air is drawing in around the head gasket. I know it an be done in the water but for some reason towing her to get crained out was suggested but I'll call again on Monday and maybe check availability of others who'll take it out in the water. Don't think its the hugest job if no peripheral damage and I could take to CB for skimming etc. 

 

 

Is it just me that can't understand this diagnosis. If it is drawing air into the coolant, then why change the fuel filter. If it is alleged, air is being drawn into the engine and it somehow gets into the fuel system.

 

I kind of accept that gas MIGHT force its way back up an injector, but if so why claim it is a had gasket.

 

In the basis of what the OP has told us, this seems a fishy diagnosis to me unless the OP has not understood what they were told.

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Frankly were I to be changing the head gasket, I'd much prefer to do it with the boat in the water. Lugging heavy tools etc up and down a ladder to get in and out of a boat on the hard standing is not my idea of fun.

 

Nor would I be able to test it once finished. 

 

Just a possibility - there may be a lot of bug associated with the water in the tank and I have heard of yards cutting the back out of the boat to gain access to clean the tank, and then weld it back up.  otherwise, I agree with your thoughts.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Is it just me that can't understand this diagnosis.

 

Lol, I was going to move on to this next! 

 

When a technician has no idea what a problem actually is, and therefore has no intention of actually fixing it and just wants to get away, they tend (in my experience from feedback from my own customers) to tell the customer any old load of ol' tosh that sounds credible to the customer. I fear this is what's happened here. 

 

When someone calls me asking me to fix a specific diagnosis rather than just telling me all about the fault and the symptoms, my first question is always "How do you know the <for example> gas valve needs replacing?" 

 

And the answer is always but absolutely ALWAYS "Someone came round and told us this but he can't get one/is going on holiday/can't do it for a month/some other feeble excuse", then I know he was just guessing and when I get there it will be something completely unrelated.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by MtB
Add a bit.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, MtB said:

 

Lol, I was going to move on to this next! 

 

When a technician has no idea what a problem actually is, and therefore has no intention of actually fixing it and just wants to get away, they tend (in my experience from feedback from my own customers) to tell the customer any old load of ol' tosh that sounds credible to the customer. I fear this is what's happened here. 

 

Good, that is two of us who have done a great deal of diagnosis in our respective fields find it odd as reported.

 

I am trying to work out how water in the tank, put into the engine via the injectors, can blow the gasket so it sucks air in.

 

The OP says "filter" singular. If it is a half decent boat then there would be two filters or a water trap and filter. were both checked.  There is also likely to be a brass or plastic strainer under the cap on the lift pump that many modern engineers do not seem to know about. I wonder if that has been checked and cleaned.

[JollyWonker]

RIghto, not going to defend my post. I'm a chartered Engineer and not stupid by any stretch, although ironically deal with almost every discipline other than engines until we picked her up in the summer.  A mechanic based in the local marina spent a few hours getting her going, gave his findings and I'm happy with the diagnosis. 

 

The confusion, I think is because I want her craned out for blacking, so perhaps I lead the conversation into a direction where towing was a sensible solution.

 

I'll call the mechanics Monday, and around others to check availability. Thanks for all the advice. 

[MtB]

33 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

but for some reason towing her to get crained out was suggested

 

 

I'm firmly of the opinion this was probably suggested by said mechanic specifically in order to avoid making concrete arrangements to change the head gasket, because s/he is not confident in their diagnosis. 

 

See my edit to my previous post.

 

It might yet turn out to be a correct diagnosis but both Tony and I have doubts, so tread carefully. If you could give some more details of the symptoms, the board can probably guide you to a clearer diagnosis. What happens now if you try to start it?

 

Edit to add:

Cross posted with the OP, who is happy with the diagnosis. 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by MtB

[Bod]

4 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

RIghto, not going to defend my post. I'm a chartered Engineer and not stupid by any stretch, although ironically deal with almost every discipline other than engines until we picked her up in the summer.  A mechanic based in the local marina spent a few hours getting her going, gave his findings and I'm happy with the diagnosis. 

 

The confusion, I think is because I want her craned out for blacking, so perhaps I lead the conversation into a direction where towing was a sensible solution.

 

I'll call the mechanics Monday, and around others to check availability. Thanks for all the advice. 

Please take note, the two main respontants, are both very experienced in the field of narrowboats, in particular Tony Brooks who has spent many many hours replying to questions with acknowledged skill, leading to correct diagnosis and repair, given sensible answers to his questions.

 

Bod

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Bod said:

Please take note, the two main respontants, are both very experienced in the field of narrowboats, in particular Tony Brooks who has spent many many hours replying to questions with acknowledged skill, leading to correct diagnosis and repair, given sensible answers to his questions.

 

Bod

 

 

Tony knows far more about engines in general and about this particular engine than me. 

 

There is also Tracy here, who knows this engine in the finest of detail, and may chip in later with some worthwhile observations. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

20 minutes ago, JollyWonker said:

RIghto, not going to defend my post. I'm a chartered Engineer and not stupid by any stretch, although ironically deal with almost every discipline other than engines until we picked her up in the summer.  A mechanic based in the local marina spent a few hours getting her going, gave his findings and I'm happy with the diagnosis. 

 

The confusion, I think is because I want her craned out for blacking, so perhaps I lead the conversation into a direction where towing was a sensible solution.

 

I'll call the mechanics Monday, and around others to check availability. Thanks for all the advice. 

 

I would point out that no one has posted anything that suggest that you need to defend your post, but Mike and myself have suggested that with the information to hand, the engine diagnosis sounds very odd. Regrettably, we see this sort of thing time and time again with those new to boating where boaters get taken.

 

Blown head gaskets do not suck air, they blow gas, although they may suck and blow air between two adjacent cylinders, but that would not get into the fuel. If air or gas is to get anywhere via a blown head gasket, it will be into the cooling water. If the gasket between two adjacent cylinders had failed then it would only run on two cylinders and the noise, vibration and lack of power would be very noticeable.

 

Even flat out, each injector will inject less than a pin head's worth of fuel as a very fine mist per injection, so even if it were pure water it would be less likely to form a hydraulic lock because it would be blown out of the exhaust port before the next injection. A wet exhaust boat (which the vast majority of canal boats are not) can get a hydraulic lock by drawing water into the engine from the wet exhaust, especially if they do not start readily. A poor design might allow a canal boat to flood its exhaust with waves etc. and both could cause a hydraulic lock, but that would more likely bend connecting rods as well as possibly damaging the gasket.

 

If the problem is the engine keeps stopping and will not start, then please follow the pies from the tank to the engine. Hopefully you will find another filter or water trap that is clogged. Also turn the fuel tap off and take the top off the lift pump to ensure the sediment trap and strainer (if there) is clean.

 

PS, do you want my professional qualifications? Not chartered but amongst others registered as a UK Technician Engineer before retiring. I do not normally feel the need to give them.

@Tracy D'arth sorry to bother you, but does the OP's diagnosis make sense to you.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Tony Brooks

[Quattrodave]

I'm of the same opinion as Tony & Mike, I don't see the problem being a head gasket.

 

If you're getting air in the fuel line/ fuel filter on a BMC then for the sake of a few quid replace the fuel pump...

[Captain Pegg]

The OP didn't originally post for advice or assistance regarding the engine. That may explain why they don't particularly want to engage in that part of the discussion.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Captain Pegg