Toilet questions

[Tracy D'arth]

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Things to know when working in different countries :

 

Thats why in Arab countries you do not eat food or shake hands, or touch people with your left hand - the left hand is used for 'cleaning up' after bathroom visits, and water to wash your hand may be in short supply.

Even waving at someone with your left hand is considered a huge insult.

 

Your left hand is your 'dirty hand'.

And the western loos full of smooth stones...................................

 

I prefer a bidet but seldom seen on canal boats unfortunately.

[Jon57]

19 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

And the western loos full of smooth stones...................................

 

I prefer a bidet but seldom seen on canal boats unfortunately.

And a urinal with a hot air hand drier to make it just like a house/hotel.🤪🤪 

[Feeby100]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Things to know when working in different countries :

 

Thats why in Arab countries you do not eat food or shake hands, or touch people with your left hand - the left hand is used for 'cleaning up' after bathroom visits, and water to wash your hand may be in short supply.

Even waving at someone with your left hand is considered a huge insult.

 

Your left hand is your 'dirty hand'.

Bloody disgusting 🤮 

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, Feeby100 said:

Bloody disgusting 🤮 

 

 

THere is a very good 'business book' called "When Cultures Collide", it is well worth a read if you are travelling - everything from 'tipping' to 'toilets'

[Alway Swilby]

If the OP is still around I would advise that this forum is not a good place to ask about "composting" toilets. The forum in general is very anti the idea as comes across in lots of the coments on this thread. For better advice from people that actually use composting toilets on boats rather than people that have no intention of trying the idea you should have a look at the facebook group mentioned by Ditchcrawler https://www.facebook.com/groups/1525582381058089 . It certainly is possible to do it especially if you can get "Hot Composting" going. The time required to compost is much reduced.

[cheesegas]

16 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

If the OP is still around I would advise that this forum is not a good place to ask about "composting" toilets. The forum in general is very anti the idea as comes across in lots of the coments on this thread. For better advice from people that actually use composting toilets on boats rather than people that have no intention of trying the idea you should have a look at the facebook group mentioned by Ditchcrawler https://www.facebook.com/groups/1525582381058089 . It certainly is possible to do it especially if you can get "Hot Composting" going. The time required to compost is much reduced.

Agreed - people here seem to poo-poo it (ha) as they don't really know what it's about - they assume it's a stinky box of poop that ends up in the bin.

 

Also, I think a lot of people on this board live in marinas with pump out and elsan facilities so the compost toilet benefits are fewer compared to if you're CCing off grid.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Also, I think a lot of people on this board live in marinas with pump out and elsan facilities so the compost toilet benefits are fewer compared to if you're CCing off grid.

 

I wonder if that is because a lot of marinas have banned boats with composting (sorry) 'seperating toilets' because they have repeatedly ended up with plastic bags of non-compsted human waste in their bins.

 

Even C&RT has a view on the subject (77 pages of posts)

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Also, I think a lot of people on this board live in marinas with pump out and elsan facilities so the compost toilet benefits are fewer compared to if you're CCing off grid.

 

Nah nearly all of 'em live on dry land.  Most of the noisiest posters on here don't live on boats, quite a few don't even own boats anymore.

 

Of those who actually have boats - as opposed to used to have boats - most have moorings in marinas or online.  Not really a surprise, as last figures I remember reckoned around 5,000 CCers out of 35,000 boats on CRT licences.

 

[booke23]

32 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

For better advice from people that actually use composting toilets on boats rather than people that have no intention of trying the idea

 

14 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Agreed - people here seem to poo-poo it (ha) as they don't really know what it's about - they assume it's a stinky box of poop that ends up in the bin.

 

Rather sweeping statements. The advice I gave earlier in the tread is based on my experience of actually using a composting toilet.......put simply they're crap on a boat.  

[cheesegas]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I wonder if that is because a lot of marinas have banned boats with composting (sorry) 'seperating toilets' because they have repeatedly ended up with plastic bags of non-compsted human waste in their bins.

 

Even C&RT has a view on the subject (77 pages of posts)

Yep, I'm fully aware of the CRT's stance and it's the same as the marinas; I agree, putting a bag of poop in a bin is not composting, it's just binning it and shouldn't be done if it doesn't comply with the waste carrier's stream. Composting is a steep learning curve to begin with but the overall advantages of a compost toilet are far greater compared with the other options. A lot of people aren't willing to learn though, and it ends up being binned.

 

I have no idea why you'd compost if you were a marina dweller though, least of all a non liveaboard. Far easier to walk to the elsan point or pootle across to the pumpout.

 

 

 

Just now, booke23 said:

Rather sweeping statements. The advice I gave earlier in the tread is based on my experience of actually using a composting toilet.......put simply they're crap on a boat.  

  What was your use case? Marina or CC? I'm a CCer and have tried cassette, pumpout and compost - despite having to put your poop in a big box and carry it around, it's still better than relying on the next CRT pumpout on the map which may be broken, or marinas which have limited opening hours.

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

 

I have no idea why you'd compost if you were a marina dweller though, least of all a non liveaboard. Far easier to walk to the elsan point or pootle across to the pumpout.

 

 

Whatever you think of compost bogs ultimately they are a good environmentally friendly way of handling poo (if done correctly) and this alone is a reason to use them.

If you put your waste down the sewer (via cassette, pumpout or a marina WC) then it gets mixed with rainwater and dumped in a river, or maybe into the sea for the surfers to surf on.

 

(we have a pumpout and at the moment,  a compost loo on a CCing boat on CRT waters is probably not the best option...but I am very tempted)

[TheBiscuits]

16 minutes ago, booke23 said:

a composting toilet.......put simply they're crap on a boat. 

 

Well yes.  That's what they are for!

[magnetman]

34 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

Agreed - people here seem to poo-poo it (ha) as they don't really know what it's about - they assume it's a stinky box of poop that ends up in the bin.

 

 

 

To be fair, the CRT have actually officially announced that waste from composting lavatories on boats may no longer be disposed of in the waste bins. I think it was a contractor problem. Possibly BIFFA or maybe another one. Presumably they noticed quite large amounts of partly decomposed human waste turning up in the domestc waste stream and raised objections.

 

I would tend to view the behaviour of a well known waste disposal company as quite an accurate indicator as to whether there was a problem with stinky boxes of poop ending up in the bin.

 

Quite happy for anyone to disabuse me on this.

 

 

[magnetman]

 

I also think that the choice of onboard lavatory type is yet another topic where people will exhibit choice supportive bias. The choice of how to dispose of one's previous possessions is always going to be subject to a lot of psychology and it will be very difficult to get past this and discover the truth.

 

Used food handling is the boaters' favourite subject but also a very sensitive area for discussion.

[dmr]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

To be fair, the CRT have actually officially announced that waste from composting lavatories on boats may no longer be disposed of in the waste bins. I think it was a contractor problem. Possibly BIFFA or maybe another one. Presumably they noticed quite large amounts of partly decomposed human waste turning up in the domestc waste stream and raised objections.

 

I would tend to view the behaviour of a well known waste disposal company as quite an accurate indicator as to whether there was a problem with stinky boxes of poop ending up in the bin.

 

Quite happy for anyone to disabuse me on this.

 

 

 

Putting part composted crap into the bins and hence landfill is not good. This really is using a composting bog as just a short term separating bog with low cost/convenient disposa (at somebody else's expense)l. It really should go back onto the land in a safe and sustainable way

[magnetman]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Putting part composted crap into the bins and hence landfill is not good. This really is using a composting bog as just a short term separating bog with low cost/convenient disposa (at somebody else's expense)l. It really should go back onto the land in a safe and sustainable way

It certainly should be I can't help thinking the fact the CRT / bin contractors have banned it must mean there was actually a real problem.

 

Although to be fair adding compost to landfill might actually be quite a sensible idea from a sustainability point of view.

 

I imagine in reality it was messing with the waste disposal companies recycling objectives which caused the issues.

[Alan de Enfield]

The fundamental principles of 'composting' toilets is a great idea, and, when done properly is a perfect way of reducing waste volumes resulting in a small volume of inoccuous waste.

 

The problem is that all the treehuggers and environmentalists are 'all for it' until the realise the time, and effort to do it properly is not feasible on a boat, and, like 'New Year resolutions', (made with the best of intent) reality soon hits you and you are just not prepared to keep 3-big buckets of poop under your bed on a 3-year rotation so the 'slop' goes into the domestic waste bins - job done - its out of sight and out of mind.

 

And all of sudden all composting toilet boaters are 'dirty bu??ers'.

 

If you have a plot of land you can use (which some do) then it is an ideal system, but for 99% of boaters it just isn't a practical alternative.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Alan de Enfield

[ditchcrawler]

I was interested to learn that London's health problems started with the invention of flush toilets, When they had the night soil man they didn't have the problems.

[dmr]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

It certainly should be I can't help thinking the fact the CRT / bin contractors have banned it must mean there was actually a real problem.

 

Although to be fair adding compost to landfill might actually be quite a sensible idea from a sustainability point of view.

 

I imagine in reality it was messing with the waste disposal companies recycling objectives which caused the issues.

I think NBiffa clain to hand sort/recycle the stuff from CRT bins so I can see why they are not happy.

 

Landfill is a precious resource so even if poo is an ok thing to put into lanfill (even beneficial), it means needing more landfill sites so spreading our plastic waste out over even more land area.

I've just had a little Google and this suggests that a human produces only about 10kg of (dried) poo each year (this feels low to me?). Thats really not much, it can't be that difficult to dispose of it correctly.

[magnetman]

In summer one can use excess solar power to freeze the product. Buy a cheap compressor coolbox. They go down to about -15 Celcius. 

Trebuchets are quite easy to DIY. Just a load of pallet wood and a couple of bicycle innertubes and you can socially distance yourself from a decent block by several hundred yards.

 

There is always a way to deal with this sort of thing.

 

1 minute ago, dmr said:

I think NBiffa clain to hand sort/recycle the stuff from CRT bins so I can see why they are not happy.

 

Landfill is a precious resource so even if poo is an ok thing to put into lanfill (even beneficial), it means needing more landfill sites so spreading our plastic waste out over even more land area.

I've just had a little Google and this suggests that a human produces only about 10kg of (dried) poo each year (this feels low to me?). Thats really not much, it can't be that difficult to dispose of it correctly.

 

10kg in a year sounds a little implausible.

 

 

[dmr]

37 minutes ago, magnetman said:

In summer one can use excess solar power to freeze the product. Buy a cheap compressor coolbox. They go down to about -15 Celcius. 

Trebuchets are quite easy to DIY. Just a load of pallet wood and a couple of bicycle innertubes and you can socially distance yourself from a decent block by several hundred yards.

 

There is always a way to deal with this sort of thing.

 

 

10kg in a year sounds a little implausible.

 

 

 

Yes, I got that figure from an academic paper and as an ex university man I really don't trust academics and their papers 😀 The figure is a global average so includes the poot buggers who don't get much food. The upper figure was 29kg per year which I still think is a bit low.  I have been keepin an eye (😀) on a land based compost loo that we have access to and am surprised at how quickly the stuff shrinks but as said in another thread I do suspect that a rat is helping. Actually its more than a suspiscion because this morning I saw him waiting for his breakfast.

Edited January 4, 2023 by dmr
typo

[Jon57]

9 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

Yes, I got that figure from an academic paper and as an ex university man I really don't trust academics and their papers 😀 The figure is a global average so includes the poot buggers who don't get much food. The upper figure was 29kg per year which I still think is a bit.  I have been keepin an eye (😀) on a land based compost loo that we have access to and am surprised at how quickly the stuff shrinks but as said in another thread I do suspect that a rat is helping. Actually its more than a suspiscion because this morning I saw him waiting for his breakfast.

You really shouldn't be rat arsed in the morning 🐀🐀🤣

[booke23]

43 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The fundamental principles of 'composting' toilets is a great idea, and, when done properly is a perfect way of reducing waste volumes resulting in a small volume.

 

If you have a plot of land you can use (which some do) then it is an ideal system, but for 99% of boaters it just isn't a practical alternative.

 

^^^^Exactly this. A great idea on land but just not on a boat. 

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

You really shouldn't be rat arsed in the morning 🐀🐀🤣

It is a worry, I dunno how high a rat can jump 😀

I suspect that part of the problem is that most of the ready made boat "compost" loos are designed to look rather like a proper loo and are just too small. I have seen many boaters DIY jobbies (?) and these are big wooden boxes with a seat and lid on top. I think big is the way to go, the only limit is that the poo bucket should be liftable.

[cheesegas]

10 minutes ago, booke23 said:

^^^^Exactly this. A great idea on land but just not on a boat. 

Still not sure why it's not a great idea? It does need more space as you need to carry it around until it composts fully, but not being tied down to the schedule of emptying your tank or walking to an Elsan is great. When I had a pump out, sometimes we'd empty it even when it's not full as we were passing a pump out point and weren't going to be passing one in the next move.

Picked up a tyre in the prop last year on the GU which damaged the engine mounts and gearbox, I was stuck for almost a month waiting for parts miles from an Elsan, having to empty the toilet would have made the situation even worse!

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by cheesegas