Electrification of CRT Broad and Wide Locks.

[David Mack]

6 minutes ago, Pluto said:

With locks at 13 feet wide, they are around 14 feet, and were built for smaller Thames barges, so a conventional standard canal. Standardisation to a specific size was not a feature of our canals as they were built at a time when measurement had not really become properly standardised.

So is there no truth in the story that the proprietors of the Stort Navigation deliberately made their navigation slightly narrower than the Lee, so that their barges could trade on the Lee up to Hertford and down to London, but the Lee traders' barges would be too big to use the Stort?

[Pluto]

It is certainly possible, as the Duke of  Bridgewater seems to have done that with Runcorn locks, which were smaller than the existing Mersey & Irwell ones. However, there were no definitive sizes for coastal or Thames boats when the Stort Navigation was built, and from my research into northern waterways, there were a wide variety of lengths and widths for coastal boats, some even narrower than 13 feet, and I can see no reason for Thames boats to be any different. The Stort was not particularly successful, making a profit of around £1000 per annum in the early 1850s, and a report of 1858, BW 82/122 in the Waterways Archive, paints a depressing picture, with maximum tonnage being 40 tons for boats 85 feet by 13 feet by 2 feet 9 ins, which had difficulty passing on the narrow river sections. The Lee Trustees were advised not to purchase by the report's writer.

[magnetman]

Surely if you wanted to block traffic just a single stop lock would be required.

 

One day they will do this under the A45 at Braunston on the bit going to Hellmorton.

 

[oboat]

On 06/12/2022 at 09:15, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Isn't this the IWA definitions rather that BW / C&RT definitions ?

Definitely! The Clue ia in the last line.

For safety reasons IWA considers that there should be at least 0.3 m (1ft) clearance above the craft air draught.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, oboat said:

Definitely! The Clue ia in the last line.

 

For safety reasons IWA considers that there should be at least 0.3 m (1ft) clearance above the craft air draught.

 

 

 

 

So as for defining the canal dimensions, it is a wish list rather than a factual document, so not much help.

 

The canal dimentions which C&RT (and BW before them) are legally required to meet are listed for each canal in the Fraenkel Report.

[oboat]

22 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

So what does all this make the River Stort?

The Regents is a wide waterway & the Stort, WND, are Broad.
 

[bizzard]

The Stort is not much wider than most canals. The locks are awkward at roughly 13' wide, although longer around 80'.  I in the past have had to yank two narrow boats apart with a Tirfor winch trying to get into a lock together.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

Surely if you wanted to block traffic just a single stop lock would be required.

 

One day they will do this under the A45 at Braunston on the bit going to Hellmorton.

 

 

Hopefully a few hundred yards up at Braunston Turn rather than actually under the A45...

 

Although a stop lock is not needed, just a narrow bit. 

 

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

The Stort is not much wider than most canals. The locks are awkward at roughly 13' wide, although longer around 80'.  I in the past have had to yank two narrow boats apart with a Tirfor winch trying to get into a lock together.

Were they dis storted? 

[magpie patrick]

3 hours ago, oboat said:

The Regents is a wide waterway & the Stort, WND, are Broad.
 

I'd a feeling it was that way round - to me, broad is bigger than wide, but obviously not to whoever came up with the definition.

 

"Intermediate" would be a better description of locks more than 7 feet wide but less than 14. 

[Scholar Gypsy]

And don't forget locks where the chamber is 14' or more wide, but the entrance to the lock is less than 14'.  As noted above, some on the Great Ouse, and also at Jesus Green lock in Cambridge.

[Pluto]

On 07/12/2022 at 21:08, magpie patrick said:

I'd a feeling it was that way round - to me, broad is bigger than wide, but obviously not to whoever came up with the definition.

 

"Intermediate" would be a better description of locks more than 7 feet wide but less than 14. 

Perhaps 'standard' is better, as around 14 feet was the standard width until 'narrow' canals were introduced, though they did have much larger canal locks in Ireland before the 1760s.

[ditchcrawler]

54 minutes ago, Pluto said:

Perhaps 'standard' is better, as around 14 feet was the standard width until 'narrow' canals were introduced, though they did have much larger canal locks in Ireland before the 1760s.

So where were these first standard locks in the UK ?

[Pluto]

From off the top of my head, the Aire & Calder, Calder & Hebble, Mersey & Irwell, Douglas, Weaver, 3 river Avons, 2 River Ouses, Trent, Thames, Kennet, Medway, Lea, Stamford Canal and the Welland, the Barrow, the Kilkenny Canal and the Grand Canal all had locks around 14 feet wide before narrow canals were considered, although those on the last named were considerably larger, so the Exeter Canal could also be included. The UK had around 4000 miles of inland waterways, with 1800 miles having locks around 14 feet wide or more, and 1200 miles being narrow.

[peterboat]

17 minutes ago, Pluto said:

From off the top of my head, the Aire & Calder, Calder & Hebble, Mersey & Irwell, Douglas, Weaver, 3 river Avons, 2 River Ouses, Trent, Thames, Kennet, Medway, Lea, Stamford Canal and the Welland, the Barrow, the Kilkenny Canal and the Grand Canal all had locks around 14 feet wide before narrow canals were considered, although those on the last named were considerably larger, so the Exeter Canal could also be included. The UK had around 4000 miles of inland waterways, with 1800 miles having locks around 14 feet wide or more, and 1200 miles being narrow.

I have always said that broad boats were the norm and narrowboats a cheapskate less useful version of a proper boat! 🤣