Jump to content

Electrification of CRT Broad and Wide Locks.


oboat

Featured Posts

1 hour ago, oboat said:

Good point. However the EA don't seem to see it that way. As pointed out only St Johns is significantly less than 15ft. 

 

The flat base plates which protrudes further than the hull sides is also a valuable comment. 

It possibly nullifies the comment "I never hit a gate".
How would you know if the contact was below the waterline & did not affect steerage significantly?

Both comments would seem to reinforce the need for gates to be fully open!  

And I still say "if there is a boat already in the lock do you hit them as you come in"?           (  should it be   "?   o r   ?"  )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of my German boatman friends told me that in Germany you were forbidden from using your engine when over the sill so as not to disturb any rubbish which could settle on the sill. Tyres as fenders were also forbidden as they could sink and cause problems with the gates sealing. Wooden fenders, similar to the photo, were used as they would float if they fell in the water. Dorfprozelten is a small village on the River Main which was home to many boatmen, and I was given this as a present when stopping there with another boating family.

Dorfprozelten.JPG

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Pluto said:

One of my German boatman friends told me that in Germany you were forbidden from using your engine when over the sill so as not to disturb any rubbish which could settle on the sill. Tyres as fenders were also forbidden as they could sink and cause problems with the gates sealing. Wooden fenders, similar to the photo, were used as they would float if they fell in the water. Dorfprozelten is a small village on the River Main which was home to many boatmen, and I was given this as a present when stopping there with another boating family.

Dorfprozelten.JPG

That makes a lot of sense 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 29/11/2022 at 00:52, Midnight said:

It always wrankles when boaters moan about leaking double locks then insist they only need one gate. I got an ear full from a member on here this year when I opened both gates. He told me his wife would be annoyed as she only needed one.

I had one grumpy old chap (waiting to take his boat up the lock), close one gate on me just as I was about to exit a lock - "I only need one gate open!" - my wife had just opened it. He closed the one on the side the boat was (wind was involved) so we delayed him further by reopening it and then heading out. He then closed one gate after we exited so that he could enter through his single gate.

 

I noticed he was single-handed so offered an extra pair of hands - "No thanks, I've been doing this for 50 years without your help." 

 

50 years of scraping away at gates! Brilliant. We chuckled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, zenataomm said:

So, what is the difference between Broad and Wide Locks?

 Someone has come up with an entirely artificial definition whereby one is more than 7 feet wide but less than 14 (i.e can't take two narrow boats) and one is 14 foot or more - I can't remember which way round they are. The same source has I think "large" which makes sense - this is for locks like those on the Aire and Calder which are mahoosive compared to most of the system.

 

ETA CRT define borad as two narrow boat width - they don't seem to have a defintion of wide but I guess it's the in between ones

 

8 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

We only have one and thats in Suffolk

Is it broad? ;) 

 

I think if we're going to be picky there are a few in Norfolk but they're not on the broads :blink:

Edited by magpie patrick
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

Someone has come up with an entirely artificial definition whereby one is more than 7 feet wide but less than 14 (i.e can't take two narrow boats) and one is 14 foot or more - I can't remember which way round they are. The same source has I think "large" which makes sense - this is for locks like those on the Aire and Calder which are mahoosive compared to most of the system.

Wide/large locks on the Aire and Calder and how they compare to a typical broad lock. You know it when you see it.

 

lemonroyd1.JPG.dcaf78f6b5734a4604403bd53d50aa4b.JPG

 

lemonroyd2.JPG.46b8b3fa6435b691102dd28efe3c597d.JPG

Lemonroyd lock in 2012. Humber Pride taking oil to the terminal that then existed just above the lock.

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Wide/large locks on the Aire and Calder and how they compare to a typical broad lock. You know it when you see it.

 

lemonroyd1.JPG.dcaf78f6b5734a4604403bd53d50aa4b.JPG

 

lemonroyd2.JPG.46b8b3fa6435b691102dd28efe3c597d.JPG

Lemonroyd lock in 2012. Humber Pride taking oil to the terminal that then existed just above the lock.

Lovely! How much are they, second hand?  I like the back massager for the co-pilot (obviously not the pilot, too far from the wheel.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Lovely! How much are they, second hand?  I like the back massager for the co-pilot (obviously not the pilot, too far from the wheel.)

Its still running, exol Pride nice blue, moored a 150 meters away from rim me currently, I will nip over and ask how much they want for her?

Edited by peterboat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Its still running, exol Pride nice blue, moored a 150 meters away from rim me currently, I will nip over and ask how much they want for her?

Thank you.  If we can come to an agreement on price then obviously I will start a new thread asking if anyone knows somebody who can do a conversion to a continuous cruiser interior layout, ideally starting next week.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Thank you.  If we can come to an agreement on price then obviously I will start a new thread asking if anyone knows somebody who can do a conversion to a continuous cruiser interior layout, ideally starting next week.

Never mind that what about the anchor 😱

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Absolutely.  That could be a show-stopper.

Yes I can honestly say its huge! I have seen her at anchor in one of the big ponds! She had something really bad around her propeller, they pumped ballast to the bow and the propeller lifts out of the water brilliant 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 04/12/2022 at 23:07, zenataomm said:

So, what is the difference between Broad and Wide Locks?

This may help

APPENDIX 

 

1 Definitions
For the purposes of this document, the following definitions will apply: 
Broad waterway: a navigation constructed to accept craft with a maximum beam between 2.15 m (7’1”) and 4.35 m (14’3”). 
Constructed channel profile: the cross section to which the channel was originally constructed or subsequently intentionally enlarged. 
Craft gauge: the maximum length, beam, draught, and air draught of craft which it is currently intended should be able to pass through the channel and structures (e.g. locks, bridges) of the waterway. 
Constructed gauge: the craft gauge of a waterway as originally constructed, or as reconstructed subsequently with the intention of changing the craft gauge. 
Fairway: the part of the channel in which craft passing along the waterway normally travel. 
Freight waterway: a navigation principally available for the passage of freight vessels. 
Narrow waterway: a navigation constructed to accept craft with a maximum beam of 2.15 m (7’1”) or less, not including canals designed for passage by tub boats only. 
(In addition, the Herefordshire & Gloucestershire Canal is considered a narrow waterway) 
Pinch point: a structure or part of a structure, with no significant heritage value, which has been constructed or reconstructed, or has deteriorated, to dimensions which do not allow the passage of vessels of constructed gauge. 
Waterway: an inland navigation, or length of an inland navigation, having a constant constructed gauge, or a constant historic craft gauge where the craft gauge is not defined by construction. 
Wide waterway: a navigation accepting craft with a maximum beam greater than 4.35m (14’3”).

2 Standard Gauge for Traditional UK Inland Craft

 

 

The constructed gauge varies among waterways, and this policy statement seeks to ensure the protection of this gauge as a minimum in each case. Subject to paragraph 3.2, for structures being built new or rebuilt (but not for structures being reconstructed for conservation purposes or being repaired), the standard craft gauges for narrow and broad waterways are: 

 

Length: 22 m (72’2”) 

 

Beam: 2.15 m (7’1”) for narrow waterways, 4.35 m (14’3”) for broad waterways  

 

Draught: 1.3 m (4’3”) for narrow waterways, 1.5 m (5.0”) for broad waterways 

 

Air Draught: 2.2 m (7’3”) for narrow waterways 

 

2.7 m (8’10”) for broad waterways

 

 

3 Standard Gauge for Inland/Sea UK Intra-European Craft 

 

 

Class V

 

Length 95m (312') Beam 11.5m (38') Draught 2.7m (8' 6") Air Draught 6.7m (22')

 

Class IV

 

Length 80m (262' 6'') Beam 9.5m (31') Draught 2.5m (8') Air Draught 4.4m (14' 6')

 

 


4 Minimum Channel Dimensions
a) Width and Depth: In slack water lengths (e.g. canals and some canalised sections of river navigations), the minimum dimensions of the channel required to accommodate craft of gauge beam B and gauge draught D are: 
• Depth of fairway: D + 20% or 0.3 m, whichever is greater 
• Width of fairway: 2.1 x B or 6 m, whichever is greater 
• Depth at landings, wharves, and moorings: D + 0.2 m 
• Depth at other banks: At 1.0 m from every bank, or where there is a bank-side vegetation fringe at the waterside of that fringe, no less than 0.6 m. Where protection is installed on the towpath bank, the depth at this bank shall be the depth the protection was designed to make possible. The depth at the non-towpath bank shall be deep enough to achieve the required fairway dimensions. 
These dimensions will need to be increased in river sections, and other sections with significant flow, to allow for the effects of current and changing water levels. 
b) Cross Section: In lengths where the channel is not restricted by structures or other local features, the ratio of the water cross section to the wetted cross section of a craft of craft gauge should be no less than 3.5:1 as an absolute minimum for short lengths, but 6:1 or greater is preferred, to reduce erosion and adverse effects on fringes of vegetation. 
c) Channel Lining: Where new channel lining is installed, the depths and channel cross-section it creates should comply with the above requirements for craft gauge beam and draught. 
d) Tidal and River Navigations: On tidal navigations and sections of river navigations not covered in a) above, including those which may have no constructed gauge, channel maintenance specifications should be derived for each waterway, in consultation with users, so as to facilitate safe and efficient navigation. 
e) Bends: In all cases, fairway width on bends should be increased as necessary to ensure that two vessels of craft gauge can pass safely. 
f) Headroom 
On narrow waterways 2.8 m (9’2”) headroom is preferred although 2.5 m (8’2”) would comply with this policy. 
On broad waterways 3.0 m (9’10”) headroom is desirable. 
The required headroom should be provided over a width of at least craft gauge beam.  
For safety reasons IWA considers that there should be at least 0.3 m (1ft) clearance above the craft air draught.

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It does suggest they don't have much historical knowledge of British canals. The standard British waterway had locks around 14 or 15 feet wide, while the narrow canal system for 7 foot boats could be considered an addition. There were certainly more miles of 'wide' canals than

'narrow'. Thus a standard UK canal craft was around 14 feet wide. The goods they carried were certainly of greater benefit to the economy of the country as a whole than those carried by narrow canals.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Pluto said:

It does suggest they don't have much historical knowledge of British canals. The standard British waterway had locks around 14 or 15 feet wide, while the narrow canal system for 7 foot boats could be considered an addition. There were certainly more miles of 'wide' canals than

'narrow'. Thus a standard UK canal craft was around 14 feet wide. The goods they carried were certainly of greater benefit to the economy of the country as a whole than those carried by narrow canals.

So what does all this make the River Stort?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

So what does all this make the River Stort?

With locks at 13 feet wide, they are around 14 feet, and were built for smaller Thames barges, so a conventional standard canal. Standardisation to a specific size was not a feature of our canals as they were built at a time when measurement had not really become properly standardised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.