Purchase question

[Mcroson]

Been reading the forum for a while and now finally in the later part of a purchase the boat is 4 years old and after our survey the only major item was to do with the blacking of the hull, the surveyor said they it had been painted with two pack epoxy paint but was not grit blast beforehand, so the two pack does not adhere to the steel and easily comes away.

 

Are we in the right to ask the seller to contribute to put this right, eg 50% of the cost or the whole cost is this reasonable?

[mrsmelly]

As a prospective purchaser you can request whatever you like, after all its your money. Boats are just property with no particular laws covering them. The seller can also refuse to offer any discount. Today is a sellers market but what price is the boat? is it expensive for what it is for instance? How much do you want that particular boat? I bought a boat some years ago that was twenty years old and hadnt been out of the water for the last 18 years and never blacked, i paid cash and walked away, I had a hull survey later and it was still nearly as new, what is the hull like on the boat you want to purchase?

[ditchcrawler]

There is nothing to stop you asking, but the seller could well say no

[MrsM]

Others will respond but in my opinion blacking (bitumen or epoxy) is just one of the many routine jobs and costs of ownership. Epoxy should ideally last longer than 4 years and you could ask the seller to reduce the price a little to reflect this. But don't be too surprised if they refuse and sell it if to the next buyer who comes along and is happy to pay more. Best of luck.

[Ex Brummie]

You have paid a surveyor for a report and his advice. With the best will in the world, all the keyboard surveyors cannot equal the conclusions of the professionally accredited individual you employed'

If you like the boat and feel it is a reasonable deal with or without a discount, taking into account the cost for the recommended work, then buy it. If you don't feel that way, then don't. Have you seen many other boats to give you a better insight? Maybe you need to look at a few more.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, Mcroson said:

Been reading the forum for a while and now finally in the later part of a purchase the boat is 4 years old and after our survey the only major item was to do with the blacking of the hull, the surveyor said they it had been painted with two pack epoxy paint but was not grit blast beforehand, so the two pack does not adhere to the steel and easily comes away.

 

Are we in the right to ask the seller to contribute to put this right, eg 50% of the cost or the whole cost is this reasonable?

 

How does the surveyor know it wasn't grit blasted beforehand? Is the two pack not adhering to the steel, and coming away? you would not have to be an expert to see this happening. If it is coming away significantly, the door may be open for a negotiation.... if not, what is the surveyor basing his/her opinion on?

 

Was it two packed from new, 4 years ago? or have the owners had it done after a couple of years?

 

What are you expecting the cost to be?

[LadyG]

4 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

 

How does the surveyor know it wasn't grit blasted beforehand? Is the two pack not adhering to the steel, and coming away? you would not have to be an expert to see this happening. If it is coming away significantly, the door may be open for a negotiation.... if not, what is the surveyor basing his/her opinion on?

 

Was it two packed from new, 4 years ago? or have the owners had it done after a couple of years?

 

What are you expecting the cost to be?

The condition of the hull should be the main consideration. If it has corroded and has badly pitted then you are going to have to have it hauled out and presumably deal with this, which could be difficult.

Ask the surveyor for more detailed advice, he is the expert 

If you want it grit blasted in order to get it back to bare steel, you are looking at a project, time and costs, significant, a few thousand, im guessing. Standard haul out and blacking for a 57 ft narrowboat, self painted plus new anodes might be about £1000, maybe more. Usually costs are more than the figure you first thought of 

[LadyG]

8 hours ago, Ex Brummie said:

You have paid a surveyor for a report and his advice. With the best will in the world, all the keyboard surveyors cannot equal the conclusions of the professionally accredited individual you employed'

If you like the boat and feel it is a reasonable deal with or without a discount, taking into account the cost for the recommended work, then buy it. If you don't feel that way, then don't. Have you seen many other boats to give you a better insight? Maybe you need to look at a few more.

I wonder what the surveyor has recommended OP does not say.

It does not always need to be grit blasted, now or four years ago, though it might be best practice to get full benefit from epoxy, but I am surprised that the epoxy has not adhered, maybe rusting has thrown it off?

My boat had been epoxied from new, there was no trace of it after twenty years, neither was it corroded  I had it wire brushed with a drill and brass brushes then I gave it three coats of epoxy, I hope it will last ten years, or even twenty!

Edited September 2, 2022 by LadyG

[system 4-50]

9 hours ago, Mcroson said:

it had been painted with two pack epoxy paint but was not grit blast beforehand, so the two pack does not adhere to the steel and easily comes away.

You imply that it is an inevitable consequence of not grit blasting that 2 pack will come off easily.  My boat was not grit blasted and the 2 pack did not come away easily except around the anodes.    Is it around the anodes that your surveyer was concerned?  If so I would not be bothered.  

 

9 hours ago, Mcroson said:

Are we in the right to ask the seller to contribute to put this right, eg 50% of the cost or the whole cost is this reasonable?

No, neither is reasonable.  You offer the price for the boat that you thnk it is worth, as-is.   (unless this is greater than the asking price!)  

all imho.

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, LadyG said:

The condition of the hull should be the main consideration. If it has corroded and has badly pitted then you are going to have to have it hauled out and presumably deal with this, which could be difficult.

Ask the surveyor for more detailed advice, he is the expert 

If you want it grit blasted in order to get it back to bare steel, you are looking at a project, time and costs, significant, a few thousand, im guessing. Standard haul out and blacking for a 57 ft narrowboat, self painted plus new anodes might be about £1000, maybe more. Usually costs are more than the figure you first thought of 

Your first statement is precisely correct, the rest is smoke and mirrors by the surveyer. How/when/who applied whatever coating is of no consequence, its trivia taken as part of the costs of boat ownership. The only thing that matters is the condition of the hull, not some coating.

[MtB]

How much does it cost to get (say) a 57ft narrow boat docked, shot blasted and two-packed nowadays?  £3k perhaps? 

 

This seems like background noise in relation to the purchase cost of such a boat.

 

 

[Tacet]

You need only to pay a fair price for the boat.  When you made the offer, you probably didn't assume the boat was truly perfect so it is perhaps not reasonable to expect a discount when that assumption was confirmed on survey.

Worth a try, but don't let it become a point of deep principle.

[LadyG]

Question to ask yourself is are you going to buy the boat or has the survey put you off sufficiently to withdraw.

If you said you would buy it at one price, subject to survey, then it's up to you to offer what you want. You have already committed a significant amount of cash. Maybe you read on the forum that having a survey would give you better bargaining power, it does not sound to me like a colander. I don't think it has given you much bargaining power, as such.

To find out more about the hull condition, it would probably require all the epoxy to be stripped of, a full inspection, numerous ultra sounds, another surveyors report, this is not going to happen.

You cannot be sure, of anything at this stage the vendor may not want to haggle, not everyone does, the vendor may just stick to the price first discussed / agreed.

You may be suffering from a touch of nervous prevarication, which is normal

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by LadyG

[dmr]

You can try, but they have every right to refuse, and don't push it so hard that they back out.

Several people do it that way, its still better than blacking, not as good as shot blast and epoxy, and not as good as shot blasting, hot zinc spray and epoxy. 

So, its not really wrong, but could be better, but things can always be better...at a cost.

I expect there are lots of other things that "could be better"

Surveyers do like to find "faults" to justify their cost.

[Richard10002]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Surveyers do like to find "faults" to justify their cost.

 

They also like to point out things that havent yet happened, but might happen in the future.

 

In this case the OP reads as though it hasn't happened, and may never happen.

 

We need to hear back from the OP to find out.

[Tony Brooks]

2 hours ago, system 4-50 said:

You imply that it is an inevitable consequence of not grit blasting that 2 pack will come off easily.  My boat was not grit blasted and the 2 pack did not come away easily except around the anodes.    Is it around the anodes that your surveyer was concerned?  If so I would not be bothered.  

 

 

The above is relevant very relaxant and it is known that close to anodes the electrical action of the anodes can cause hull coatings to lift. I think you need to press the surveyor for the location and extent of the lifting - which in my view he should have given you already. You also need to know the extent and depth of any pitting. If the pitting is minor in depth and extent then local repairs to the epoxy blacking, starting with a good angle grinding, is perfectly possible if you don't want to go the whole hog blast and reblack.

[manxmike]

If there is significant pitting on a four year old boat then you have to ask what metal the hull is made of - somehow I doubt there will be much in the way of rust, lifting around the anodes would be normal and not really a worry.

My boat lasted about 40 years before there was any real hull degradation and it had never been two part epoxy coated, just blacked once in a blue moon!

[ditchcrawler]

The only way I can see it being a problem is if the boat is being sold as being epoxy coated and that has added a premium to the price. If it was standard blacking you would be expecting to renew it,