Recommendations for installing Inverter, servicing engine and gas system on the boat (London)

[harrybsmith]

Just now, AndrewKyiv said:

I am thinking along these lines to. i think everything is doable if you are prepared to go out of you way! I have full control over my working hours, go to the office/dont go to the office, start early/sart later. I like the idea of the blown air heater, would it have been possible to put it on a timer so it turned on maybe 30 minuites before you got home to warm the boat up?

 

I've got a GSM box on it as well as a timer so can text it to turn on! (I did often do that too). They do require a decent state of charge in the batteries to start cleanly, and a stove does provide dryer heat, but i'm probably awake on my boat for about 2hrs a day so unless it's properly taking the mick cold I don't usually bother heating it unless i'm actually in it and awake. I currently have shore power so I mostly use electric blown air heating.  Controversial I know... 

 

Anyway, perfectly possible to have a system fitted to meet your needs, i'd look for a yard/ person in the Midlands, it'll almost certainly work out cheaper overall. Message me, I have a friend who may want the job and is an excellent boat engineer 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

would it have been possible to put it on a timer so it turned on maybe 30 minuites before you got home to warm the boat up?

 

Yes.

 

But are you imagining that the blown air heater is a free-standing, plug into the electric type heater ?

 

They are built into (normally) the engine room and are permanently plumbed directly into your disel fuel tank and permanently wired into your electricity supply.

The heat is dispersed around the boat in 4" ducts and comes out from under cupboards etc like your car heater vents but bigger.

 

There are various models size / output (5Kw is a typical boat size) they are not cheap and will require properly fitting.

 

Eberspacher by 5KW 5-6kw Air Heaters (butlertechnik.com)

 

You can get cheaper ones on ebay (these are car / truck / coach heaters) but these are not suitable for boats.

 

(I have an 8Kw Eberspacher blown air heater with 6-outlets - one in each cabin- on my boat)

Edited May 30, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Noviceboata]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

.

 

There are various models size / output (5Kw is a typical boat size) they are not cheap and will require properly fitting.

 

Eberspacher by 5KW 5-6kw Air Heaters (butlertechnik.com)

 

You can get cheaper ones on ebay (but these are car / truck / coach) but these are not suitable for boats.

 

(I have an 8Kw blown air heater on my boat)

What do you think about these Chinese heaters, any expierience with them?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133694440685?epid=22047140369&hash=item1f20cf44ed:g:aIcAAOSw1dliX97R

9 minutes ago, harrybsmith said:

 

I've got a GSM box on it as well as a timer so can text it to turn on! (I did often do that too). They do require a decent state of charge in the batteries to start cleanly, and a stove does provide dryer heat, but i'm probably awake on my boat for about 2hrs a day so unless it's properly taking the mick cold I don't usually bother heating it unless i'm actually in it and awake. I currently have shore power so I mostly use electric blown air heating.  Controversial I know... 

 

Anyway, perfectly possible to have a system fitted to meet your needs, i'd look for a yard/ person in the Midlands, it'll almost certainly work out cheaper overall. Message me, I have a friend who may want the job and is an excellent boat engineer 

Can you message me? It seems I cant message you until I have 10 posts

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

What do you think about these Chinese heaters, any expierience with them?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133694440685?epid=22047140369&hash=item1f20cf44ed:g:aIcAAOSw1dliX97R

 

Folks have used them and have been happy.

 

I tend to be a little more risk averse these days and will stick with brands that have many years experience making safe boat heaters.

 

The Chinese heaters are a copy of a Russian heater which is a copy of the Eberspacher heaters.

Dumbed down to a price, and then dumbed down to an ever lower price. - Not for me.

 

The piping does not meet boat safety inspection standards so you need to buy the proper stuff

The fuel tank does not meet boat safety standards so you need to scrap that and buy the parts to fit it to the main boat diesel tank.

The Exhaust is dangerous for use on boats as it allows CO to build up inside the boat so you need to buy a proper marine exhaust system.

Note : It says "NOT TO BE USED INDOORS" this is because on a vehicle the gases drop out under the car into the 'free air', on a boat they drop into the bilges and build up, until one morning you don't wake up.

 

I could go on.

 

Why is it only £180 ?

Edited May 30, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Quattrodave]

1 hour ago, AndrewKyiv said:

What do you think about these Chinese heaters, any expierience with them?

 

Yes, I have one, they work well but as Alan said they need installing properly on a boat. I threw all the ancillaries out, keeping the main heater and installed with parts that were fit for purpose & passed BSS.  Total cos just under £500.  Oh and I also used an 'Afterburner' controller.... if you're in IT you'll like the 'Afterburner'...

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why is it only £180 ?

 

Dunno. Mine was under £100.

 

Mind you I installed it with care and attention to detail, which could be why I'm still here to post this.

 

 

[blackrose]

11 hours ago, AndrewKyiv said:

I will be out of the boat at least 10 hours a day) also possible to charge batteries up at my work. 

 

I'm not sure why everyone seems to be giving you an unessessarily hard time? You're more realistic than many new boaters who ask questions on here. However, boat electrics do take some time to understand and they're trying to help and save you time and money, so listen to the advice and then just do what you want to do. You'll have plenty of experience in no time. 

 

I wouldn't start taking batteries off the boat to charge at work. Bumping them down the towpath on a trolley will do them no good. I knew a guy who did it and a battery exploded in his face as he was bringing it back to the boat. He was fine but only after dunking his whole head into the canal. 😱

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

I wouldn't start taking batteries off the boat to charge at work. Bumping them down the towpath on a trolley will do them no good.

 

Not only that but as soon as you put it back into the bank it will try to charge the rest in the bank and thus discharge itself to almost the same level as the others over a few hours.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Some more problems with "bring your battery to work day".

• The wiring to the battery bank will need to be partially, or fully dismantled and reassembled each time a battery is removed. It will then need to be partially replaced so the boat has power while a battery is missing. You are messing about with batteries that can dump hundreds of amp through any accidental short circuit; a dropped spanner, loose flapping cable, or wiring error, which can happen at any time and it requires concentration to do safely. Any mistake and you risk melted cables and the possibility of an exploding battery. There is no fuse protection within the bank.
• The batteries need to be boxed, clamped down, or otherwise protected from moving in the boat. This is both a good idea and a boat safety requirement. More things to dismantle and reassemble every few days. Battery location on a boat is often not easy to access. You can end up having to move 25kg batteries in and out of awkward places. You can be in a situation where to remove the battery you want to charge, you have to remove all the other batteries first.
• Any leakage of sulphuric acid electrolyte from a transported battery will rot through the floor of the vehicle used to carry it.
• Bolt on connections to the battery terminals will be assumed by a boat safety scheme inspector, but are time consuming to change. They will fail crocodile clips. You may have to argue over if any other sort of quick connect system is a pass. Can a quick connect handle high currents safely without overheating?

 

Conclusion. Avoid avoid avoid!

Jen

[Crewcut]

21 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Would it be easier to focus on converting items to 12v rather than getting an invertor?   just a thought.....  you might be able to get a far smaller one.....

 

This - I come from living aboard sailboats, when a mate started looking for a narrow boat he was quizzing me about inverters all the time & I was really puzzled. My first response was forget inverters they're a really inefficient way to use you battery's power. You can charge laptops & other devices, have TV, heating, fridge, hot water & showers, even radiators for heat all without an inverter. It's the likes of electric kettles (BTW forget 12v kettles!) microwaves and hairdryers that you can't so if you can forego them do without an inverter would be my suggestion also. And if you can't forego electric kettles, microwaves and hairdryers maybe living on a boat isn't your best ever idea...

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Crewcut said:

 

This - I come from living aboard sailboats, when a mate started looking for a narrow boat he was quizzing me about inverters all the time & I was really puzzled. My first response was forget inverters they're a really inefficient way to use you battery's power. You can charge laptops & other devices, have TV, heating, fridge, hot water & showers, even radiators for heat all without an inverter. It's the likes of electric kettles (BTW forget 12v kettles!) microwaves and hairdryers that you can't so if you can forego them do without an inverter would be my suggestion also. And if you can't forego electric kettles, microwaves and hairdryers maybe living on a boat isn't your best ever idea...

 

 

Excellent, so now there's two of us on here who can cope perfectly well without 230Vac mains electricity in a boat!

 

It staggers me, the headlong rush for mains power in a boat demonstrated by most boaters these days. Electricity and water really don't mix, mains leccy especially. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

 

Excellent, so now there's two of us on here who can cope perfectly well without 230Vac mains electricity in a boat!

 

It staggers me, the headlong rush for mains power in a boat demonstrated by most boaters these days. Electricity and water really don't mix, mains leccy especially. 

 

 

 

Add me to that when we had the boat.

[blackrose]

10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not only that but as soon as you put it back into the bank it will try to charge the rest in the bank and thus discharge itself to almost the same level as the others over a few hours.

 

I assumed he was going to do the lot at the same time. 3 or 4 batteries isn't difficult to get onto a trolley. 

[Tracy D'arth]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

I assumed he was going to do the lot at the same time. 3 or 4 batteries isn't difficult to get onto a trolley. 

In his working day he would not be able to fully charge them.

An impractical idea. 

[GUMPY]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I assumed he was going to do the lot at the same time. 3 or 4 batteries isn't difficult to get onto a trolley. 

But if he takes all his batteries off the boat there will be nothing to power his control systems🤭

[Noviceboata]

13 minutes ago, Loddon said:

But if he takes all his batteries off the boat there will be nothing to power his control systems🤭

Hey guys I guess the joke is long gone, the post is already a few days old, but if you want to keep it going here you go  

https://www.sam-turner.co.uk/products/hyundai-hps-1100-2000w-portable-power-station?variant=40357202755723&fo_c=603&fo_k=712ab3ee67e92c5663ba1bac91e06fe0&fo_s=gplauk&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-daUBhCIARIsALbkjSbS0Dwg1np1hXJxOKSRGACBc7rdHlOYTTn-pEtkowhIcPk7D1A_lX8aAkKDEALw_wcB

 

Just now, AndrewKyiv said:

Hey guys I guess the joke is long gone, the post is already a few days old, but if you want to keep it going here you go  

https://www.sam-turner.co.uk/products/hyundai-hps-1100-2000w-portable-power-station?variant=40357202755723&fo_c=603&fo_k=712ab3ee67e92c5663ba1bac91e06fe0&fo_s=gplauk&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-daUBhCIARIsALbkjSbS0Dwg1np1hXJxOKSRGACBc7rdHlOYTTn-pEtkowhIcPk7D1A_lX8aAkKDEALw_wcB

 

Even has a nice carry handle

[GUMPY]

1 minute ago, AndrewKyiv said:

Hey guys I guess the joke is long gone, the post is already a few days old, but if you want to keep it going here you go  

https://www.sam-turner.co.uk/products/hyundai-hps-1100-2000w-portable-power-station?variant=40357202755723&fo_c=603&fo_k=712ab3ee67e92c5663ba1bac91e06fe0&fo_s=gplauk&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-daUBhCIARIsALbkjSbS0Dwg1np1hXJxOKSRGACBc7rdHlOYTTn-pEtkowhIcPk7D1A_lX8aAkKDEALw_wcB

 

You still have to charge it and for that price you could have two sets of batteries, one set  on charge in the office and one set on the boat and just keep swapping them over🤭

[blackrose]

7 hours ago, MtB said:

 

It staggers me, the headlong rush for mains power in a boat demonstrated by most boaters these days. Electricity and water really don't mix, mains leccy especially. 

 

 

It staggers you? Really? You must be some sort of purist. I can't see any disadvantages is having multiple onboard systems and conversely there may be some benefits. What are you going to do without an inverter if you need to do an essential repair and want to use an electric drill for example while away from shore power with no generator or if the generator won't start? Let's face it, there may be some 12v power tools on the market but it's much easier to get hold of mains tools and they're going to be much better. 

 

Also, in your scenario where does the water come from? I can't see why it's any more likely that mains electricity comes into contact with water in a decent, properly fitted boat than in a house.

 

A mains system on a boat is nice to have if living aboard, especially if you find yourself at a mooring with shore power as it allows you to keep a battery charger switched on, maintaining the batteries and effectively running the DC system from shore power. I know you can do this with solar panels, but not in winter. 

 

I have an inverter but don't use it that much, but if your boat has a mains system then you'd be mad not to install an inverter. 

20 minutes ago, Loddon said:

But if he takes all his batteries off the boat there will be nothing to power his control systems🤭

 

I assumed he wouldn't be there so it wouldn't matter, but since we're all agreed that taking batteries off the boat to charge them is a bad idea the conversation is largely irrelevant. 

[sueb]

I remember when hand tools were the norm. You really don't need 240v on a boat. Life is much simpler without it.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, AndrewKyiv said:

Hey guys I guess the joke is long gone, the post is already a few days old, but if you want to keep it going here you go  

https://www.sam-turner.co.uk/products/hyundai-hps-1100-2000w-portable-power-station?variant=40357202755723&fo_c=603&fo_k=712ab3ee67e92c5663ba1bac91e06fe0&fo_s=gplauk&gclid=Cj0KCQjw-daUBhCIARIsALbkjSbS0Dwg1np1hXJxOKSRGACBc7rdHlOYTTn-pEtkowhIcPk7D1A_lX8aAkKDEALw_wcB

 

Even has a nice carry handle

 

 

Buy yourself two of these then when one goes flat you can charge it up using the other, ad infinitum. 

 

👍

[Slim]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I assumed he was going to do the lot at the same time. 3 or 4 batteries isn't difficult to get onto a trolley. 

He's not talking about a one off but a daily event. 

[Slim]

3 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

In his working day he would not be able to fully charge them.

An impractical idea. 

Most of his ideas are. Lives in a world of 48 hour days and 14 day weeks.

[Noviceboata]

2 minutes ago, Slim said:

Most of his ideas are. Lives in a world of 48 hour days and 14 day weeks.

Do you guys not have anything better to do?? Man the joke is over, horse has bolted, how else do i need to tell you?

[Tony Brooks]

11 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

Do you guys not have anything better to do?? Man the joke is over, horse has bolted, how else do i need to tell you?

 

You do not control the forum. You posted a question asking for free advice which, in so far as we could, was provided plus a lot of other important information that, from what I could see, you were unaware of. It seems you did not appreciate information that was contrary to your ideas so a bit of levity ensued. Once a topic is posted you do not control it. If you want to then start your own forum where you can.

 

My advice now is simply ignore all you have been told and do your own thing. If it all goes wrong then maybe Thunderboat help may be more to your taste.

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, AndrewKyiv said:

Man the joke is over,

 

No, the joke is still here (shown by the fact you are still posting)