Longer Boats Up Norf

[churchward]

6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But nevertheless, the perception that this is a bookable location does I think serve to discourage the less organised boaters. The same as the need to book passage over the Summit and through the Manchester 18 did before these were opened to all comers without notice.

I agree it takes some planning with these places that need to be booked and that may put some off.  Mind you having to book a passage across the Bridgewater now does not seem to stop the movement of CRT boats.

 

In the light of this trip up the Rochdale I would have rather had to book assisted passage I think and as it turned out we almost had that anyway with the two calls we had to make to CRT.

[IanD]

30 minutes ago, churchward said:

I do not think just falsely advertising the state of the canal and trying to get more boats through that way will help. Some will fair better than others for sure but the truth will out, it's not just a few with bad experiences and it always looks rosier when you have not had the bad experience oneself.

 

 

Not at all what I was saying!!!

 

As I credited you with saying, your post -- as well as justifiably being p*ssed-off about the bad things with the Rochdale -- did also credit the good things.

 

But as in so many aspects of life people are more likely to post -- and read -- bad experiences than good ones, we regularly see people claiming that some part of the canal network is a "no-go" area because something bad happened to them, and then other people saying that it's nothing of the sort.

 

I've talked to people who have been on the "no-go" areas of canals (and the Rochdale) and some -- often a few -- have had problems, but a lot -- often many more -- have not. Maybe the Rochdale right now is worse than normal, but still there was one report further up of a recent transit without problems.

 

What I'm saying is that reported problems -- especially on forums -- don't always represent the reality of something like this, and people -- especially newcomers -- should maybe not be quite so worried about such reports as they sometimes are... 😉

Edited April 28, 2022 by IanD

[PaulJ]

31 minutes ago, churchward said:

I agree it takes some planning with these places that need to be booked and that may put some off.  Mind you having to book a passage across the Bridgewater now does not seem to stop the movement of CRT boats.

That is about the only complaint I have about the HNC (sense of humour required reading this). I booked my passage through for Standedge and Lock 1E allowing reasonable time for any delays like empty pounds etc.

Trouble is I didnt get any -Just half a dozen low pounds that I scraped through with no more needed than being slow and careful.  Have sailed through so far (now moored for lunch at 9E) and arrived at both bookings more than 24 hrs early  😀😀

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

That is about the only complaint I have about the HNC (sense of humour required reading this). I booked my passage through for Standedge and Lock 1E allowing reasonable time for any delays like empty pounds etc.

Trouble is I didnt get any -Just half a dozen low pounds that I scraped through with no more needed than being slow and careful.  Have sailed through so far (now moored for lunch at 9E) and arrived at both bookings more than 24 hrs early  😀😀

Time for some beers while waiting then 🙂

[TheBiscuits]

50 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

arrived at both bookings more than 24 hrs early

 

We tend to take it easy so only book once we have arrived at Diggle or Marsden for the tunnel.

 

We do tend to keep an eye on the booking system to see how busy it's looking, but there are enough short stoppages on the Hudd Shallow that you can usually get a cancellation because the booked boat can't make it to the summit.

 

If there's no bookings till June at the moment that wouldn't work as well as usual!

[haggis]

Reading all this news about water shortages etc and lack of bookings for Standedge makes me wonder if the Standedge Explorer cruise organised for 12 boats at the end of June will take place.  If it does take place, we will then have the problem about being able to return via the Leeds and Liverpool. Interesting times ahead!

[IanD]

54 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We tend to take it easy so only book once we have arrived at Diggle or Marsden for the tunnel.

 

We do tend to keep an eye on the booking system to see how busy it's looking, but there are enough short stoppages on the Hudd Shallow that you can usually get a cancellation because the booked boat can't make it to the summit.

 

If there's no bookings till June at the moment that wouldn't work as well as usual!

 

The first time we went through -- booked by Shire Cruisers -- the boat behind us hadn't booked, can't remember if he didn't know or was relying on there being a space. He was told the next free slot was in 2 weeks, so turned round and went back to Manchester.

 

Don't know if there were any free slots later due to cancellations, but both times we've been through all six slots that day (3 each way) were booked (and the boats waiting) according to the guide. I'm sure there will be some failures to turn up from boats who didn't allow enough spare time for the usual HNC shenanigans, but have no idea how many...

Edited April 28, 2022 by IanD

[churchward]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

Not at all what I was saying!!!

 

As I credited you with saying, your post -- as well as justifiably being p*ssed-off about the bad things with the Rochdale -- did also credit the good things.

 

But as in so many aspects of life people are more likely to post -- and read -- bad experiences than good ones, we regularly see people claiming that some part of the canal network is a "no-go" area because something bad happened to them, and then other people saying that it's nothing of the sort.

 

I've talked to people who have been on the "no-go" areas of canals (and the Rochdale) and some -- often a few -- have had problems, but a lot -- often many more -- have not. Maybe the Rochdale right now is worse than normal, but still there was one report further up of a recent transit without problems.

 

What I'm saying is that reported problems -- especially on forums -- don't always represent the reality of something like this, and people -- especially newcomers -- should maybe not be quite so worried about such reports as they sometimes are... 😉

CRT are reporting a structural failure (don't know what kind) at lock 72 on Rochdale and have closed the flight between 65 and 81 until further notice.

 

Crossing Manchester we did not have issues with local youths but everyone we spoke to on the way to lock 65 said don't stop "here" including our CRT hero Billy. The issues we had were all to do with the canal being in a poor state, lack of water and laden with rubbish. Mind you with the amount removed after being round my prop it may be more passable now!  

 

In all my posts above I have not even hinted at any advice for others not to try the Rochdale but I can only say by my own experience how good or bad it has been for us. We are all feeling drained and have needed a couple of days R&R at Todmorden and Sowerby Bridge. I am hoping for better things from the C&H then onto the A&C to Leeds it is the part of the journey to Leeds that I have been most looking forward to.  I shall enjoy the L&L as well and look forward to stopping at places like Saltaire and Skipton.

Edited April 28, 2022 by churchward

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, churchward said:

CRT are reporting a structural failure (don't know what kind) at lock 72 on Rochdale and have closed the flight between 65 and 81 until further notice.

 

Crossing Manchester we did not have issues with local youths but everyone we spoke to on the way to lock 65 said don't stop "here" including our CRT hero Billy. The issues we had were all to do with the canal being in a poor state and laden with rubbish. Mind you with the amount removed after being round my prop it may be more passable now!  

 

In all my posts above I have not even hinted at any advice for others not to try the Rochdale but I can only say by my own experience how good or bad it has been for us. We are all feeling drained and have needed a couple of days R&R at Todmorden and Sowerby Bridge. I am hoping for better things from the C&H then onto the A&C to Leeds it is the part of the journey to Leeds that I have been most looking forward to.  I shall enjoy the L&L as well and look forward to stopping at places like Saltaire and Skipton.

If you're still at Sowerby Bridge, walk up Bolton Brow to the Shepherd's Rest for some liquid R&R. Lovely pub 🙂

 

Skipton, that'll be the Beer Engine 🙂 🙂 🙂

Edited April 28, 2022 by IanD

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

We tend to take it easy so only book once we have arrived at Diggle or Marsden for the tunnel.

 

We do tend to keep an eye on the booking system to see how busy it's looking, but there are enough short stoppages on the Hudd Shallow that you can usually get a cancellation because the booked boat can't make it to the summit.

 

If there's no bookings till June at the moment that wouldn't work as well as usual!

Dont know if you see the notice CRT put out a few days ago but from May 9th looks like you have no chance of getting anywhere near either without a booking first!

[churchward]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Dont know if you see the notice CRT put out a few days ago but from May 9th looks like you have no chance of getting anywhere near either without a booking first!

CRT have removed Standedge from the online booking system and you can only book if you phone. They are also letting just one boat a day through and when we asked there were no booking slots available until June.

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, churchward said:

CRT have removed Standedge from the online booking system and you can only book if you phone. They are also letting just one boat a day through and when we asked there were no booking slots available until June.

Yep thanks for that-hadnt realised that until your post👍Though to be fair if I actually had have read the email it did say as much.

Bit I was referring to was that, presuming they implement it, no one is going between Lock 24W and 32E as well without a booking. Going to be very quiet there..

[churchward]

7 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Yep thanks for that-hadnt realised that until your post👍Though to be fair if I actually had have read the email it did say as much.

Bit I was referring to was that, presuming they implement it, no one is going between Lock 24W and 32E as well without a booking. Going to be very quiet there..

Yes indeed I should think there will be more boats on the Montgomery than the Huddersfield Narrow and that is pretty restricted.

[peterboat]

9 hours ago, IanD said:

 

...and the many L&L swing bridges, some well-nigh immovable... 😞

Its true 4 or 5 people sometimes to operate them 😩

3 hours ago, IanD said:

If you're still at Sowerby Bridge, walk up Bolton Brow to the Shepherd's Rest for some liquid R&R. Lovely pub 🙂

 

Skipton, that'll be the Beer Engine 🙂 🙂 🙂

Ian you really do have a boaters attitude to drinking beer 😊

[Guest]

Just now, peterboat said:

Its true 4 or 5 people sometimes to operate them 😩

 

The deterioration over the last five years must be considerable. I struggled on occasions but never not managed to move one on my own.

 

Symptomatic of the lack of attention being paid to routine maintenance I guess.

[peterboat]

12 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

The deterioration over the last five years must be considerable. I struggled on occasions but never not managed to move one on my own.

 

Symptomatic of the lack of attention being paid to routine maintenance I guess.

We were just before Saltaire 5 boats in convoy, all partners off in the end to open a swing bridge! It was a right pain some of the others were no better Martin 

[IanD]

3 hours ago, peterboat said:

Its true 4 or 5 people sometimes to operate them 😩

Ian you really do have a boaters attitude to drinking beer 😊

I should hope so, it's very similar to a Morris dancers attitude, and I've been doing that for even longer... 😉

[IanD]

16 hours ago, PaulJ said:

Yep thanks for that-hadnt realised that until your post👍Though to be fair if I actually had have read the email it did say as much.

Bit I was referring to was that, presuming they implement it, no one is going between Lock 24W and 32E as well without a booking. Going to be very quiet there..

 

Is that happening? Means Marsden will be deserted, no visits to the Riverhead Brewery Tap then (hi Peter!)... 😞

[PaulJ]

15 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Is that happening? Means Marsden will be deserted, no visits to the Riverhead Brewery Tap then (hi Peter!)... 😞

Looking likely...

Notice Alert

Huddersfield Narrow Canal
Location: Huddersfield Narrow Canal restrictions Lock 32E to Lock 42E & Lock 24W to Lock 32W & Standedge Tunnel
Starts At: Lock 32 East
Ends At: Lock 24 West

Monday 9 May 2022 08:00 until further notice

Type: Booking Information

---

 

Original message:

 

 

This year, due to restricted water resource available, we are at risk of being unable to keep the Huddersfield Narrow navigation open for the full boating season.

In order to preserve the water resource for as long as possible and for as many people to enjoy, we are introducing some changes.

As of 9^th May 2022, passage through Lock 32E to Lock 42E will only be available to those that have a Standedge tunnel booking. Equally, passage through Lock 24W to Lock 32W will only be available for the same reason. A member of the Canal and River Trust team will be required on site to let you through onto this closed section and, where resource is available, we will also provide assistance with navigating through the locks within these closed sections. Experience has shown that errors made whilst navigating the top flights of both the East and West can cause significant water loss on the navigation and this would add to the already challenging water resource issue that we have.

In order to facilitate the above, we have made changes to the Standedge booking schedule as follows:

Monday: Diggle to Marsden passage only (afternoon)

For customers with a Diggle to Marsden booking for Monday, you will need to ensure that you are in position at Lock 24W by 0800 on Monday morning in order for the team to let you up through the closed section ready for your afternoon tunnel passage.

Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, you will be required to stay overnight at Standedge/Lock 42E until 0800 the following morning (Tuesday), when the team will let you down through to Lock 32E. 

Wednesday: Marsden to Diggle passage (morning) and Diggle to Marsden passage (afternoon)

For customers with a Marsden to Diggle booking for Wednesday, you will need to ensure that you are in position at Lock 32E by 1300 on Tuesday afternoon in order for the team to let you up through the closed section and be ready in position at Standedge overnight for your tunnel passage the next morning.  Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, the team will let you down through to Lock 24W the same day.

For customers with a Diggle to Marsden booking for Wednesday, you will need to ensure you are in position at Lock 24W by 0800 Wednesday morning in order for the team to let you up through the closed section for your afternoon tunnel passage. Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, you will be required to stay overnight at Standedge/Lock 42E until 0800 the following morning (Thursday), when the team will let you down through to Lock 32E. 

Friday: Marsden to Diggle passage only (morning)

For customers with a Marsden to Diggle booking for Friday, you will need to ensure that you are in position at Lock 32E by 1300 on Thursday afternoon in order for the team to let you up through the closed section and be in position at Standedge overnight ready for your tunnel passage the next morning. Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, the team will let you down through to Lock 24W the same day. 

Please note the following: 

• Standedge tunnel bookings can only be made through our Customer service team on 0303 040 4040 Monday to Thursday 0900 to 1700 & 0900 to 1630 Friday. Please select the option for Yorkshire and North East Region when you call through. The ability to book tunnel passage online has been temporarily removed for this season to allow the team to discuss changes directly with you in detail before a booking can be made.
• Any delays in navigating to your start point (32E and 24W) to be let through the closed section is likely to result in both our assistance and your Standedge tunnel booking being cancelled. If you are unable to reach the start point of the closed section on time or you no longer require tunnel passage please ensure you contact our Customer Service Team on 0303 040 4040 at the earliest opportunity to advise.
• Boats will only be let through the closed sections at the time and date agreed as per your Standedge tunnel booking. If you arrive early at your start point you will be required to wait for our team member to attend to site.
• Where resource permits, we will endeavour to provide a team member to additionally assist you through the locks on the closed sections. We will be unable to guarantee this assistance at the time of your booking as this availability will be dependent on resource on the actual day.
• Our water resource this year will unfortunately not support those customers who wish to book a return journey through the tunnel as purely an experience, as oppose to requiring passage as part of your journey on the wider canal network. Therefore, customers will be unable to book return passage within a month of booking the outward passage.
• These changes may be subject to further restrictions. This would include, but not limited to, if we experience worsening water resource issues and need to increase restrictions or, equally, if the water resource issues improve and restrictions can be relaxed.
• We will contact anyone with tunnel passage booked from the 9^th May to advise of these changes to ensure you still wish to proceed. Additionally, we will offer alternative dates for those passages already booked that we are unable to fulfil due to the schedule change.
• These changes are in place to help keep the navigation open and to allow as many customers as possible to enjoy the navigation this season. We appreciate your support in understanding the changes that we have needed to implement.

 

You can view this notice and its map online here:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/22023/huddersfield-narrow-canal-restrictions-lock-32e-to-lock-42e-and-lock-24w-to-lock-32w-and-standedge-tunnel

You can find all notices at the url below:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Looking likely...

Notice Alert

Huddersfield Narrow Canal
Location: Huddersfield Narrow Canal restrictions Lock 32E to Lock 42E & Lock 24W to Lock 32W & Standedge Tunnel
Starts At: Lock 32 East
Ends At: Lock 24 West

Monday 9 May 2022 08:00 until further notice

Type: Booking Information

---

 

Original message:

 

 

This year, due to restricted water resource available, we are at risk of being unable to keep the Huddersfield Narrow navigation open for the full boating season.

In order to preserve the water resource for as long as possible and for as many people to enjoy, we are introducing some changes.

As of 9^th May 2022, passage through Lock 32E to Lock 42E will only be available to those that have a Standedge tunnel booking. Equally, passage through Lock 24W to Lock 32W will only be available for the same reason. A member of the Canal and River Trust team will be required on site to let you through onto this closed section and, where resource is available, we will also provide assistance with navigating through the locks within these closed sections. Experience has shown that errors made whilst navigating the top flights of both the East and West can cause significant water loss on the navigation and this would add to the already challenging water resource issue that we have.

In order to facilitate the above, we have made changes to the Standedge booking schedule as follows:

Monday: Diggle to Marsden passage only (afternoon)

For customers with a Diggle to Marsden booking for Monday, you will need to ensure that you are in position at Lock 24W by 0800 on Monday morning in order for the team to let you up through the closed section ready for your afternoon tunnel passage.

Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, you will be required to stay overnight at Standedge/Lock 42E until 0800 the following morning (Tuesday), when the team will let you down through to Lock 32E. 

Wednesday: Marsden to Diggle passage (morning) and Diggle to Marsden passage (afternoon)

For customers with a Marsden to Diggle booking for Wednesday, you will need to ensure that you are in position at Lock 32E by 1300 on Tuesday afternoon in order for the team to let you up through the closed section and be ready in position at Standedge overnight for your tunnel passage the next morning.  Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, the team will let you down through to Lock 24W the same day.

For customers with a Diggle to Marsden booking for Wednesday, you will need to ensure you are in position at Lock 24W by 0800 Wednesday morning in order for the team to let you up through the closed section for your afternoon tunnel passage. Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, you will be required to stay overnight at Standedge/Lock 42E until 0800 the following morning (Thursday), when the team will let you down through to Lock 32E. 

Friday: Marsden to Diggle passage only (morning)

For customers with a Marsden to Diggle booking for Friday, you will need to ensure that you are in position at Lock 32E by 1300 on Thursday afternoon in order for the team to let you up through the closed section and be in position at Standedge overnight ready for your tunnel passage the next morning. Once you have passed through Standedge tunnel, the team will let you down through to Lock 24W the same day. 

Please note the following: 

• Standedge tunnel bookings can only be made through our Customer service team on 0303 040 4040 Monday to Thursday 0900 to 1700 & 0900 to 1630 Friday. Please select the option for Yorkshire and North East Region when you call through. The ability to book tunnel passage online has been temporarily removed for this season to allow the team to discuss changes directly with you in detail before a booking can be made.
• Any delays in navigating to your start point (32E and 24W) to be let through the closed section is likely to result in both our assistance and your Standedge tunnel booking being cancelled. If you are unable to reach the start point of the closed section on time or you no longer require tunnel passage please ensure you contact our Customer Service Team on 0303 040 4040 at the earliest opportunity to advise.
• Boats will only be let through the closed sections at the time and date agreed as per your Standedge tunnel booking. If you arrive early at your start point you will be required to wait for our team member to attend to site.
• Where resource permits, we will endeavour to provide a team member to additionally assist you through the locks on the closed sections. We will be unable to guarantee this assistance at the time of your booking as this availability will be dependent on resource on the actual day.
• Our water resource this year will unfortunately not support those customers who wish to book a return journey through the tunnel as purely an experience, as oppose to requiring passage as part of your journey on the wider canal network. Therefore, customers will be unable to book return passage within a month of booking the outward passage.
• These changes may be subject to further restrictions. This would include, but not limited to, if we experience worsening water resource issues and need to increase restrictions or, equally, if the water resource issues improve and restrictions can be relaxed.
• We will contact anyone with tunnel passage booked from the 9^th May to advise of these changes to ensure you still wish to proceed. Additionally, we will offer alternative dates for those passages already booked that we are unable to fulfil due to the schedule change.
• These changes are in place to help keep the navigation open and to allow as many customers as possible to enjoy the navigation this season. We appreciate your support in understanding the changes that we have needed to implement.

 

You can view this notice and its map online here:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notice/22023/huddersfield-narrow-canal-restrictions-lock-32e-to-lock-42e-and-lock-24w-to-lock-32w-and-standedge-tunnel

You can find all notices at the url below:
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/notices

 

Wow, that's pretty severe restrictions -- Diggle to Marsden Mon/Wed only, Marsden to Diggle Wed/Fri only, no return within a month.

 

Even if they allow 3 boats each way per session like they used to that's only 6 boats per week each way -- or 2 boats per week if @churchward is correct and it's only 1 boat per day... 😞

 

(which would certainly explain why it's booked up...)

Edited April 29, 2022 by IanD

[Guest]

I wonder how long it will be before they just close it and let it decay so far that it wont be viable to re-open. Along with all the other Northern system? Plough all remaining resources into the Midlands and the South.

 

Like 'levelling up' but in reverse.

 

Things seem to be deteriorating massively since we left in 2015.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

This year, due to restricted water resource available, we are at risk of being unable to keep the Huddersfield Narrow navigation open for the full boating season.

Really? According to the latest CRT Reservoir Watch the Huddersfield Narrow Canal group of reservoirs were at 77.1% of capacity in April, up 4.4% from March and 10.7% from February, and better than April last year when they were at 61.2%. So while some caution may be appropriate, this does look a bit of an overreaction.

[PaulJ]

5 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Really? According to the latest CRT Reservoir Watch the Huddersfield Narrow Canal group of reservoirs were at 77.1% of capacity in April, up 4.4% from March and 10.7% from February, and better than April last year when they were at 61.2%. So while some caution may be appropriate, this does look a bit of an overreaction.

Ive no idea but the one I did see near 32E (Sparth reservoir maybe?-I dont retain any names) was bloody low and there was at least half a dozen CRT bods inspecting it as I passed. That was a locals take on it and not mine too.

CRT were unsuccessfully trying to pump water up from the River as I passed Golcar Aquaduct so they are trying..

[IanD]

26 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Really? According to the latest CRT Reservoir Watch the Huddersfield Narrow Canal group of reservoirs were at 77.1% of capacity in April, up 4.4% from March and 10.7% from February, and better than April last year when they were at 61.2%. So while some caution may be appropriate, this does look a bit of an overreaction.

 

So if the reason isn't an *actual* shortage of water -- because let's face it, the number of boats going through Standedge (was only ever 9 per week each way) could never have used much water compared to the size of a reservoir -- what is it?

 

Lack of staff to accompany boats through?

 

CART not wanting to pay for staff? (or are they all volunteers now?)

 

CART just not wanting the pay the cost of the water, since they sold off the reservoirs some time ago?

 

Or is there a real water shortage in one particular reservoir that supplies the summit (Diggle? -- and it's pretty small. Slaithwaite is the biggest by far but also too low down to supply the summit. Sparth is tiny and too low), even though the whole group (Sparth, Slaithwaite and Diggle) is at 77%?

 

Maybe some people are blaming CART unfairly when in fact they haven't got much choice... 😉

Edited April 29, 2022 by IanD

[churchward]

7 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I wonder how long it will be before they just close it and let it decay so far that it wont be viable to re-open. Along with all the other Northern system? Plough all remaining resources into the Midlands and the South.

 

Like 'levelling up' but in reverse.

 

Things seem to be deteriorating massively since we left in 2015.

It is such a shame if that happens. Rochdale troubles aside the network in the north has some great canals.  We are presently enjoying the C&H and onwards to A&C and Leeds. 

 

The loss of the Huddersfield would be a harsh blow to many especially those that fought so hard to get it open again.  We would have gone that route this trip but could not get a booking for two boats to pass through Standedge  and the Closure on the L&L made it not possible to go that way so Rochdale was the last resort for us.  But we shall take our time getting to lock 31 on the L&L in hope that it will open on 17th May or thereabouts.

 

The Rochdale is now is cut in half now with a blown cill structure to be repaired at lock 72 so the flight between locks 65 and 81 are closed.  CRT say  it will be a week before they can advise any further updates on repairs.