100s of revolting boaters

[Alan de Enfield]

Hundreds of boaters join London protest against ‘cull’ of waterway life

They are also objecting to a statement from the CRT that they will no longer accept complaints about their policies.

 

Boat dwellers stage demonstration about new moves by the Canal & River Trust to restrict mooring spaces

 

London houseboat dwellers protest against new ‘safety zone’ rules and the introduction of some chargeable mooring spaces

 

 

Hundreds of boaters converged in west London’s Little Venice area on Saturday to protest about what they say is a “cull” of a traditional way of life along the capital’s waterways.

The boat dwellers staged a demonstration about new moves by the Canal & River Trust (CRT), a charity which manages the waterways in England and Wales, to restrict mooring spaces in some parts of the capital and to issue enforcement notices against some who officials say are mooring their boats in the wrong areas. The CRT began issuing enforcement notices in January of this year.

Waterways across England and Wales are becoming more popular, particularly in the capital. According to the CRT, “London’s canals are enjoying a second golden age with the number of boats almost doubling in the last decade.” Boat dwellers say that changes to the way waterways are managed to benefit those who are better off and discriminate against the boaters who may be living on low incomes.

There are about 4,000 boats on London’s rivers and canals, half without permanent mooring. These boats are known as “continuous cruisers” and are expected to move from one mooring spot to another every 14 days. Many of these boaters remain within the same area of waterways where they have community links, their children attend schools and where they are close to their GP and other health services.

Those living on boats do so because they like the lifestyle but also because boats can be a cheaper solution than bricks and mortar in London where affordable homes are in short supply.

 

More here:

 

Hundreds of boaters join London protest against ‘cull’ of waterway life | Rivers | The Guardian

[Bee]

Inevitable tensions. Not much in the way of solutions either. If I had to work and/or live in London (Or Bath or Bristol like I used to many years ago) I have a perfectly good although slightly small boat that I would simply move there and live on it. However I would also expect CRT to be troublesome just like BWB could be - it has always been the same, if you live on board it is usually totally insecure. Thing is that as a lorry driver in Bath and Bristol I could afford to rent a flat or a share in one on ordinary wages and still have a reasonable standard of living. Might not be the case now and as for London...........

[blackrose]

They claim that in enforcing CCing rules (or imposing new definitions of how far CCers are supposed to move) CRT is culling a traditional way of life. But what about the traditional right of visitors to moor? They seem to have conveniently forgotten about that. Doesn't CRT also have a responsibility to ensure that visitor's mooring rights waste maintained and moorings aren't hogged permanently by CCers?

[Arthur Marshall]

How long has this tradition of living on a boat and working on land been going on? Must be a century at least, to be such an important tradition...

Edited March 27, 2022 by Arthur Marshall

[blackrose]

Traditional culture? Most of those crusties have probably been living on boats for less than a few years. 🤣

 

They knew the rules when they signed their license agreements, just like everyone else.

[Alan de Enfield]

The subliminal messages with all these articles are shown by those chosen to 'head the feature' - it is inevitably a 'long haired hippy type' - how representative is that of todays boaters ?

 

Is it just a London "thing" ?

 

 

 

 

[MtB]

Amazing coincidence how nice the weather was, too. A very nice weekend for holding good, well attended protest. I wonder how many reporters would have turned out had it been freezing cold and slashing with rain.

 

 

[blackrose]

30 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The subliminal messages with all these articles are shown by those chosen to 'head the feature' - it is inevitably a 'long haired hippy type' - how representative is that of todays boaters ?

 

Is it just a London "thing" ?

 

 

 

 

 

Crusties are pretty much universal in the western world these days, but they've really grabbed hold of the boat lifestyle in this country 

Edited March 27, 2022 by blackrose

[magnetman]

In London it is people previously involved in squatting residential property who have taken to boats. 

 

The former activity became illegal in 2012. Isn't it a funny coincidence that all this noise about the "traditional lifestyle" has got louder in the last ten years. 

 

Lots of politics going on here. 

 

My prediction is that itinerant living on boats will go the same way as squatting did. 

 

It won't be CRT who ban it but someone will. Probably local authorities I expect. They have ways of doing things which are far more effective than anything a navigation authority can ever do. 

 

Maybe if CRT gave towpath management to the LAs it could all become better for local people who want to see the water and the ducks rather than the slums. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by magnetman

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

In London it is people previously involved in squatting residential property who have taken to boats. 

 

The former activity became illegal in 2012. Isn't it a funny coincidence that all this noise about the "traditional lifestyle" has got louder in the last ten years. 

 

Lots of politics going on here. 

 

My prediction is that itinerant living on boats will go the same way as squatting did. 

 

It won't be CRT who ban it but someone will. Probably local authorities I expect. They have ways of doing things which are far more effective than anything a navigation authority can ever do. 

 

Maybe if CRT gave towpath management to the LAs it could all become better for local people who want to see the water and the ducks rather than the slums. 

 

 

 

 

Dont knock it. Far better for them all to congregate in a craphole called London and leave the majority of the nice waterways for everybody else.  

[magnetman]

It would be interesting to see the impact on second hand boat prices if it did come to pass that itinerant living on boats was made illegal..

 

It probably wouldn't be a regional thing. The squatting ban is country wide not just in the London hellhole. 

[Alan de Enfield]

27 minutes ago, magnetman said:

My prediction is that itinerant living on boats will go the same way as squatting did. 

 

If that really was the intention it would not be overly difficult to achieve - it would upset a couple of thousand boaters who CC not only within the rules, but within the 'spirit of the rules'.

It would require a new law, or change to the 1995 Act with the removal of section 17(3)(C)(II).

This was a hard fought addition to the original poposals.

[magnetman]

Isn't there something going on with CRT where they are not permitted to apply for primary legislation? 

 

I think this will be a job for local authorities. At the end of the day there are some areas on the cut, and it's nothing new, where the situation could be described as either "pikeys" or "slum housing". 

Most ordinary people object to both of these so it would make sense for local authorities to look after their council tax payers by improving the amenity value of the towpaths. 

 

Yes boats are interesting but slums aren't. 

 

Yes it would upset a few people but at the end of the day everyone knows that living on a boat with nowhere to stay is basically a completely insecure way of life. It's patently obvious. It could be taken away as an option at any time. 

 

Exceptions could be made for people who can show they have been living on boats for a long time and have no other accomodation options. There will be a few of these. 

 

Renting out the house and taking advantage of cheap life on the cut is one approach but if everyone starts doing it then we have a problem. 

 

It's an interesting one to watch anyway. 

 

 

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There are about 4,000 boats on London’s rivers and canals, half without permanent mooring.

So it would seem that there are 4000 revolting boater.

 

Glad that they are all in London.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

It won't be CRT who ban it but someone will. Probably local authorities I expect. They have ways of doing things which are far more effective than anything a navigation authority can ever do.

 

I'm curious about what powers you are thinking of. I can imagine local authorities finding ways of stopping the use of solid fuel stoves, and possibly using the "boats are unfit for human habitation" argument not having mains drainage. But both appear fraught with difficulties to me. What did you have in mind? 

 

[Thomas C King]

Aren't most of us here continuous cruisers? I'm surprised to see advocating banning boat dwelling (unless I've misunderstood). To be fair, I think the wider boating community should push back a bit on the London boaters to be reasonable and not ruin it for everyone. Or campaign for better social housing.

[magnetman]

20 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I'm curious about what powers you are thinking of. I can imagine local authorities finding ways of stopping the use of solid fuel stoves, and possibly using the "boats are unfit for human habitation" argument not having mains drainage. But both appear fraught with difficulties to me. What did you have in mind? 

 

I meant that local authorities are in a better position to acquire new legislation than CRT are. 

 

Taking the example of squatting it was a new act of parliament which sorted out the problem. 

 

Obviously people living on boats beside towpaths is not really a problem at the moment but it could become a problem and I think that could happen fairly quickly. 

 

Interesting to see that there is yet another recent Bill which is attempting to ban living in vehicles in certain circumstances such as without land owner permission.

 

If local authorities owned the towpaths they would be able to enforce mooring regulations in a way that CRT can't do. Provided they have suitable byelaw powers. 

 

It seems far more appropriate for the LA to be involved in the residential side of it rather than the navigation authority. 

 

None of this will happen it's just me waffling. 

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

Aren't most of us here continuous cruisers? I'm surprised to see advocating banning boat dwelling (unless I've misunderstood). To be fair, I think the wider boating community should push back a bit on the London boaters to be reasonable and not ruin it for everyone. Or campaign for better social housing.

I'm not advocating banning living on boats without moorings. I just think that the behaviour of certain groups is making this outcome more probable. 

Edited March 27, 2022 by magnetman

[Nightwatch]

If all the the boaters involved in the above dispute are all moored on recognised residential moorings or adhering to the continuous 14 day, or lower, cruising rules, and their boats are licensed with valid insurance and in date BSS certification, then I don’t see the problem.

 

If local London councils have decided to reduce the number of residential moorings in their area then surely with a fair period of notice, then surely it’s their prerogative.

 

As a boater continuous cruising in the majority of times, I expect no special treatment. I can and do abide by the rules and regs as I understand them.

Just saying.

[Alan de Enfield]

18 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

Aren't most of us here continuous cruisers?

 

I'd be extremely suprised if they were :

 

According to C&RT they have some 5000 boats registered / licenced as 'having no home mooring' out of the 34,000 (ish) of the total licenced boats.

 

The forum statistics show it has 31600 members, not only do I doubt that figure by a long margin, I also doubt that the majority of members are CCers

 

I'd guess that on the forum 'leisure boaters' outnumber CCers / liveaboards by 10:1.

Remember that there are members on the forum who are 'Ex-Boaters' (sold up and now live in bricks & mortar, have a campervan or caravan) and another group who are boating but no longer on C&RT waters.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[BWM]

Something needs to happen as it is difficult to find much in the way of moorings for visiting boats from Watford onwards travelling south, and i've experienced thuggish behaviour when people just stop alongside without introduction and proceed to tie ropes across cabin top or decks.

 When walking the towpath, you can go a considerable distance without seeing a glimpse of the canal - this seems unfair to other users, aside of the piles of junk either left abandoned or decanted from the roofs of boats tied up. 

[Nightwatch]

31 minutes ago, BWM said:

Something needs to happen as it is difficult to find much in the way of moorings for visiting boats from Watford onwards travelling south, and i've experienced thuggish behaviour when people just stop alongside without introduction and proceed to tie ropes across cabin top or decks.

 When walking the towpath, you can go a considerable distance without seeing a glimpse of the canal - this seems unfair to other users, aside of the piles of junk either left abandoned or decanted from the roofs of boats tied up. 

Never been South of Stoke Bruerne on the GU so can’t comment, but as so many mention this I would not be surprised to find the situation you describe.

[magnetman]

It's funny how the canals were originally designed to be used by payment of tolls .

 

Along with other details of the design of the system this particular part seems rather sensible. 

 

You pay for the time you remain on the waterway. A daily fee but of course in carrying days it would have been related to how much cargo you had. 

 

River Wey is an interesting one as you can't get a full year license without having a mooring on that particular waterway. 

 

Obviously licensing has a similar effect to tolls in some ways but with the massive increase in residential use of boats there is a clear driver for people to do this simply for financial reasons.

 

It's quite a complicated situation but something will happen at some point and annoyingly it will impact everyone regardless of their reasons for choosing to live on a boat. 

 

That's how it works. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'd be extremely suprised if they were :

 

According to C&RT they have some 5000 boats registered / licenced as 'having no home mooring' out of the 34,000 (ish) of the total licenced boats.

 

The forum statistics show it has 31600 members, not only do I doubt that figure by a long margin, I also doubt that the majority of members are CCers

 

I'd guess that on the forum 'leisure boaters' outnumber CCers / liveaboards by 10:1.

Remember that there are members on the forum who are 'Ex-Boaters' (sold up and now live in bricks & mortar, have a campervan or caravan) and another group who are boating but no longer on C&RT waters.

 

 

And a further substantial group who live aboard but don't CC. I.e. they live on aboard a permanent mooring.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

What’s it like in Paddington basin now? Rammed I guess.

They’d not long done it up when I went and I was possibly the only boat in there.

Was great to be right in the centre and have a ‘free’ week or so in the capital. 

Even better was being able to leave and be we’ll away within a day.

Don't think I stopped til I got to Cowley. 

Id like to got back though, only ever having been as far as Camden lock I’ve not explored much of the London canals.  

28 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Never been South of Stoke Bruerne on the GU so can’t comment, but as so many mention this I would not be surprised to find the situation you describe.

There’s some lovely places. Can’t remember without looking at my diaries.

Cosgrove, Tring summit, Cow Roast (great name) stand out as a few nice places to visit. But plenty more without having to go too far. 

[CanalRetentive]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The subliminal messages with all these articles are shown by those chosen to 'head the feature' - it is inevitably a 'long haired hippy type' - how representative is that of todays boaters ?

 

Is it just a London "thing" ?

 

 

 

 

Talking of 'tradition', they look the same sort that would throw a fit if you went back to using horses to pull the barges. I remember reading of a woman who still used a horse and packed it in because of the abuse she got from morons.