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Hello all

 

Above the rubbing strake the shell of our narrowboat will be coated with two coats of oxide by the builder - the first coat will be grey and the second red.  I'm assuming we'll still need to apply more coats of primer(?) before undercoat and top coat (multiple coats of each as required).  Our preference is for single-pack paint and we'll be using rollers and brushes to apply it. So far 'er indoors is leaning towards Craftmaster Coach Enamel but having no knowledge of this company I'm wondering what people here think of this paint?  If you've painted your own boat which paint did you use, and why?  Any pointers and tips much appreciated.

 

Also, we really like the look of Magpie, below, and would like to pretty-much replicate it.  The trouble is we can't remember where we found the picture on the internet and have so far only been able to get RAL colour codes from on-screen comparisons - obviously this might lead to disaster!  Does anyone know who the owners of Magpie are so we can contact them?

 

MagpieColourScheme.JPG

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Johnston's trade oil based gloss and self colour undercoat.

 

Having tried so called marine paints and oil based from motor trade suppliers I found Johnston's covered better, flowed out better and had a decent gloss. They also mix to the common RSL & BS colours. They can supply in 500 ml cans if they have cans.

 

I don't suggest its the best but it worked for me.

 

Be aware that the bit between the top rubbing band and the gunwale always seem to get scratched so you need a paint system that is easily touched up if you are not going to use bitumen blacking.

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Craftmaster is good paint and was specifically formulated for hand painting narrowboats by a boat painter. It is generally regarded as too expensive by many boaters, but note that it comes in 1 litre tins whilst many other brands are 750ml, and that some cheaper paints quote prices before VAT. I am a really crap painter but have messed with Rylard, International, Symphony and Craftmaster and do like the Craftmaster. Note that the black bit between rubbing strake and gunnel takes a real beating so just slap cheap black paint on and repair it every year, a silk finish is easier to patch up than a gloss.

 

............Dave

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Looks like a mix of Cargo Grey and Battleship grey, with an off white coachline. Gunnel is just black gloss, epifanes black is better, slightly matt finish.

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

Craftmaster is good paint and was specifically formulated for hand painting narrowboats by a boat painter. It is generally regarded as too expensive by many boaters, but note that it comes in 1 litre tins whilst many other brands are 750ml, and that some cheaper paints quote prices before VAT. I am a really crap painter but have messed with Rylard, International, Symphony and Craftmaster and do like the Craftmaster. Note that the black bit between rubbing strake and gunnel takes a real beating so just slap cheap black paint on and repair it every year, a silk finish is easier to patch up than a gloss.

 

............Dave

 

And it does not show up minor dents and poorly prepped scratches as much as gloss. I tend to use something fast drying from Screwfix/Toolstaion on that bit.

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4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

And it does not show up minor dents and poorly prepped scratches as much as gloss. I tend to use something fast drying from Screwfix/Toolstaion on that bit.

 

I did mine last week. I found a chandlers selling some black Craftmaster undercoat at a reduced price so I used that. When that's gone will likely get a 2.5 lite tin of cheap boat paint (silk or matte). Am tempted to do it in epoxy but that's a lot of effort. Something like Jotamatic 90 actually works out cheaper than boat enamel.

 

..........................Dave

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1 hour ago, Jackofalltrades said:

Hello all

 

Above the rubbing strake the shell of our narrowboat will be coated with two coats of oxide by the builder - the first coat will be grey and the second red.  I'm assuming we'll still need to apply more coats of primer(?) before undercoat and top coat (multiple coats of each as required).  

 

 

 

I don't think you'll need more coats of primer, but you will need to give the existing primer a key with 320 grit paper or with green abrasive pads which are good for any curved surfaces. 

 

A good undercoat is Hemple Primer Undercoat. A couple of coats gives a really good base for your topcoats.

 

With most single part paints the general rule of thumb is that for optimum adhesion if you overcoat within 3 days of the last coat you don't need to key. I'm not sure about cellulose based paints. For smoothness and surface finish some people sand between every coat, but that depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. 

Edited by blackrose
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What fantastic replies. Much food for thought. Thank you.

 

The Boss is aware of your comments. I am told I should await the decision and instructions to be passed down to me but if it all goes wrong I should accept full responsibility and of course the blame. No change there then 🤔 😁

 

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Ive been looking at this... https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/topcoats/single_pack/pioner-topcoat 

 

snip: "Pioner Topcoat is quick drying and is suitable for use both internally and externally. It is available in virtually any colour. It overcoats with future coats of Pioner Topcoat very well, without the need for rubbing down. Ideal if you are going to be doing regular touch-ups."

 

I liked the line  "no need for rubbing down"   I hate painting! 

 

 

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I would add that if you are painting it yourself outside then it seems a waste to buy expensive paint only to have imperfections from dust and insects landing on the wet surface.  Painting outside will have varying drying rates, too slow and more time for dust and insects, to fast and the paint will show brush marks.   Also good glossy paints do tend to show up all the paint defects.  In which case exterior metal  Dulux and Crown paints are much cheaper and from a distance look good.  But if using a wet dock, ignore me.

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I usually use Black Country Paints as I can collect without too much bother, they will post as well. Am at present painting kitchen cupboards in a sort of Teal green colour that is RAL 6012 or something like that.

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24 minutes ago, Chagall said:

Ive been looking at this... https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/topcoats/single_pack/pioner-topcoat 

 

snip: "Pioner Topcoat is quick drying and is suitable for use both internally and externally. It is available in virtually any colour. It overcoats with future coats of Pioner Topcoat very well, without the need for rubbing down. Ideal if you are going to be doing regular touch-ups."

 

I liked the line  "no need for rubbing down"   I hate painting! 

 

 

We use that. The hull was epoxy painted from new and I needed something for touch up above the waterline, also wanted to have black rather than the grey which epoxy ends up at. Didn't want to put bitumen on top of epoxy so put a coat of pioneer on - nice semi gloss finish - easy to overcoat as it sticks to itself and needs little preparation and dries quickly when touching up.

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40 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

We use that. The hull was epoxy painted from new and I needed something for touch up above the waterline, also wanted to have black rather than the grey which epoxy ends up at. Didn't want to put bitumen on top of epoxy so put a coat of pioneer on - nice semi gloss finish - easy to overcoat as it sticks to itself and needs little preparation and dries quickly when touching up.

Great! Thanks for that, its convinced me.  I too have 2 pack Jotamastic in green on the hull and up to the gunnels but it needs refreshing (scratches hiding!) The green did go considerably lighter which I wasn't expecting so I'm going over with the Pioner Topcoat in a dark bronze/black green. £36 for 5 litres which didn't seem too  expensive. 

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More great suggestions. Thanks all.

 

We will be painting outside in a boatyard.  When applying the undercoat if it looks like dust and insects are going to be a problem then we'll consider moving to a covered wet dock for the final top coat(s). Or maybe the yard have a special dust free and insect free corner of the yard for gullible newbie narrowboaters that they charge a premium for 😂 

 

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If your painting outside, then I wouldn't go rubbing down the whole boat in one go, because each day you'll need to lightly rub down de nib again before starting painting again as there's muck in the air especially if there's aircraft flying about and road traffic. I concentrate on say a ten foot length and work on it from start to finish top coat and then move on ideally perhaps on the other side another short area from start to finish, until they all join up. All this especially if the weathers iffy, likely to rain later.

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1 hour ago, Jackofalltrades said:

More great suggestions. Thanks all.

 

We will be painting outside in a boatyard.  When applying the undercoat if it looks like dust and insects are going to be a problem then we'll consider moving to a covered wet dock for the final top coat(s). Or maybe the yard have a special dust free and insect free corner of the yard for gullible newbie narrowboaters that they charge a premium for 😂 

 

 

It is also a good idea to get up early and wipe down the surface and wait to dry. Then when its really dry and as the sun starts to get up apply the paint. I did this on my cabin sides and found that the cool air (not cold) helped the paint flow out and there were not too many insects and dust about. 54ft boat, the cabin side fully coated before 9 am in June FWIW. As soon as the dew was dry I de-nibbed the paint with 400 grade wet and dry then dust down with microfibre cloth damped with panel wipe/degreaser spirit.

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2 hours ago, Chagall said:

Great! Thanks for that, its convinced me.  I too have 2 pack Jotamastic in green on the hull and up to the gunnels but it needs refreshing (scratches hiding!) The green did go considerably lighter which I wasn't expecting so I'm going over with the Pioner Topcoat in a dark bronze/black green. £36 for 5 litres which didn't seem too  expensive. 

We used it (black) between waterline and rubbing strake, the semi gloss looks OK it is easy touched up and we overcoat it every time the boat is out of water to freshen it, it does discolour near the waterline but i suspect any paint might, it is not recommended for below the waterline. Above the rubbing strake we use jotun Hardtop polyurethene 2 pack  gloss (green) which is tough but touching up with a single pack paint never quite matches the colour! It is not difficult to overcoat and tolerant of what is underneath but does need a light sanding unlike the Pioneer.

 

2 hours ago, Chagall said:

Great! Thanks for that, its convinced me.  I too have 2 pack Jotamastic in green on the hull and up to the gunnels but it needs refreshing (scratches hiding!) The green did go considerably lighter which I wasn't expecting so I'm going over with the Pioner Topcoat in a dark bronze/black green. £36 for 5 litres which didn't seem too  expensive. 

 

DSCN2511a.JPG

DSCN2513.JPG

Edited by Phoenix_V
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4 hours ago, Chagall said:

Ive been looking at this... https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/topcoats/single_pack/pioner-topcoat 

 

snip: "Pioner Topcoat is quick drying and is suitable for use both internally and externally. It is available in virtually any colour. It overcoats with future coats of Pioner Topcoat very well, without the need for rubbing down. Ideal if you are going to be doing regular touch-ups."

 

 

This paint sounds good. Has anyone used it on cabin sides?

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23 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

We used it (black) between waterline and rubbing strake, the semi gloss looks OK it is easy touched up and we overcoat it every time the boat is out of water to freshen it, it does discolour near the waterline but i suspect any paint might, it is not recommended for below the waterline. Above the rubbing strake we use jotun Hardtop polyurethene 2 pack  gloss (green) which is tough but touching up with a single pack paint never quite matches the colour! It is not difficult to overcoat and tolerant of what is underneath but does need a light sanding unlike the Pioneer.

 

 

 

 

The spec page on SML gives Pioner Topcoat as suitable for below the water line, did you find that it wasn't?  https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/topcoats/single_pack/pioner-topcoat

 

 

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49 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

This paint sounds good. Has anyone used it on cabin sides?

I haven't yet but if you email Eddy Fulford  eddy@smlpaints.co.uk  he will give you loads of great information. 

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2 hours ago, Chagall said:

I haven't yet but if you email Eddy Fulford  eddy@smlpaints.co.uk  he will give you loads of great information. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Chagall said:

The spec page on SML gives Pioner Topcoat as suitable for below the water line, did you find that it wasn't?  https://www.smlmarinepaints.co.uk/topcoats/single_pack/pioner-topcoat

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

This paint sounds good. Has anyone used it on cabin sides?

Blackrose it is semi gloss and a little soft, not sure how the colours other than black would look on the cabin  I certainly prefer a gloss on the cabin. My purpose was to have something a bit nicer looking than bitumen on the hull sides. Chagall, you are right it does say ok underwater but again since my purpose was to have something easily touched up for cosmetic reasons  on the hull side above water line I think it is excellent. But  I have continued with epoxy under the waterline. Pioneer is very tolerant of surface and lasts well when painted above water but I would not wish to rely on it underwater where any failure is going to rust quicker.

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2 hours ago, Phoenix_V said:

 

 

 

Blackrose it is semi gloss and a little soft, not sure how the colours other than black would look on the cabin  I certainly prefer a gloss on the cabin. My purpose was to have something a bit nicer looking than bitumen on the hull sides. Chagall, you are right it does say ok underwater but again since my purpose was to have something easily touched up for cosmetic reasons  on the hull side above water line I think it is excellent. But  I have continued with epoxy under the waterline. Pioneer is very tolerant of surface and lasts well when painted above water but I would not wish to rely on it underwater where any failure is going to rust quicker.

 

Thanks. If you already have an epoxied hull then that's what you should stick with. My epoxy comes up to the top rubbing strake and I don't have an issue with the chalking and it turning grey.

 

I think next time I paint the topsides it will be a satin or semi-gloss because full gloss highlights any imperfections, so it may be jotun pioneer. Also the quick drying times appeal because that means fewer insects.

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All this expense and fancy paint when the AkILLees heel is still there, ''The rudder stock tube'' usually 6 mm thick which can either sink your boat if separate stand alone fuel tanks or flood the fuel tank if integral and or pollute the canal if it rusts through.  Jonah. :(:)

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