Recon engine

[Jentreefication]

Hello,

 

I'm getting a recon engine figuring to do this straight away, rather than pay more down the line. The mechanic I'm using found this guy on ebay. He has really good reviews and sounds legit from what the mechanic reckons https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/203245443654

 

He's offering free delivery, part exchange and the gear box for £1750 (was going to be £2200). He wants to sell off ebay to avoid fees which is understandable, but when he sent his pro forma invoice there was no registered company address or number and payment is to his personal bank account. I've queried this as I feel that I need more protection as I don't have enough money to sort if this goes wrong. 

 

He's offering 3 month warranty, initial deposit and rest on delivery and will send a video of the engine running. I feel reassured but still a little paranoid. Would you be comfortable buying this? 

 

Thanks 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jentreefication

[Mike Adams]

I have purchased some parts from this chap and visited his premises. I nice guy but I no first hand experience of his work.

[Tracy D'arth]

If the deal is too good to believe then it is a scam.

Selling off ebay when he has used it to advertise is very dodgy.

I would pay nothing until it is delivered and the video of it running could be any engine painted the same, they could all be paint pot recons of knackered engines.

Pay a fair price for a known engine to a guy who doesn't want to fiddle ebay. If he is prepared to scam ebay, what could he do to you? 

[ditchcrawler]

If you go outside ebay you have no comeback at all

[Bee]

Its all in the definition of re con. To me a recon engine is a 'short' engine, i.e. the thing is stripped back to the basic block, the cylinder bores are re machined, new pistons fitted and crankshaft machined and new bearings fitted. All the old stuff  is then bolted back on, anything obviously worn is fixed. I would be happy to buy this. To some dealers re con is washed, scrubbed, painted and tested, if it works ok that's it. I would not be happy to buy this.  Its like 'refurbished' I have a 'refurbished' laptop, I am positive that the thing is completely original but the hard drive has been cleared of all the old stuff and that's all.  You really need to ask what has been done. 

[dmr]

Can you find a bit more money/negotiate the price down and get a brand new engine?

Recon engines are a minefield ranging from fully rebuilt engines that are better than new to semi scrap engines with a coat of paint or even just a good clean.

It would be sad to end up with something worse than you have now. A warranty is generally of little value, at the minimum you will have to remove the engine and ship it back at your own expense, and likely need to "prove" what is wrong with it.

The "can be heard running" is sometimes a sign of a dodgy engine, if you buy a good one there is never a need to prove that it runs.

You could put your old engine on eBay as a "can be heard running" ?

..............Dave

 

[GUMPY]

Last secondhand engine I bought was being replaced by a bigger engine, so we had an afternoons boating out of Titchmarsh Marina so we could see/hear it running under load before it was changed.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Loddon

[Jentreefication]

Thank you. I'm glad I asked. Yeah my instinct is saying either buy through ebay or not at all. He did invite me to the workshop before suggesting a video but it's a mission and we're in lock down anyways.

 

He will sell through ebay but I won't get the same deal.

 

I'm struggling to even find a new engine. The mechanic I'm using was satisfied but I'll go back to him tomorrow and get specifics. 

42 minutes ago, dmr said:

Can you find a bit more money/negotiate the price down and get a brand new engine?

 

 

[Man 'o Kent]

With a working lifetime in the engineering game behind me I can only concur with what has already been said.

While selling off eBay is akin, in the eyes of some as the same as nicking a biro from work or throwing a paid "sickey" it is against the eBay rules that were agreed to when siging up to use their service. Frankly such activity rings warning bells for me and does not rest well.

 

I don't know where you are but there are established firms that have specialised in such work for years, one such near me in Essex is Elmsleigh Engineering and if they are too far away I'd lay odd that a little searching will find one near you.

 

Keep a tight grip on your purse and choose carefully.

[mrsmelly]

Newton Abbot, nice and close to the sea, and old fishing boats with engines that have had years of nice salt water cooling them.

[Tracy D'arth]

9 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Newton Abbot, nice and close to the sea, and old fishing boats with engines that have had years of nice salt water cooling them.

Damn good point.    Be aware,,,very aware.      How about a new Canaline engine? should not be too much bother to fit, use you own gearbox.

[Mike Adams]

From taking to the seller it seemed he did most of his work for commercial plant engines. I think a lot of those Mitsubishi engines were/are in plant. Some were marinised by Thornycroft as a replacement for the BMC 1.5. The engine is probably 40 years old so the chances of picking up a good secondhand unit are small. I think I would look for a secondhand Beta.

[Jentreefication]

21 minutes ago, Man 'o Kent said:

While selling off eBay is akin, in the eyes of some as the same as nicking a biro from work or throwing a paid "sickey" it is against the eBay rules that were agreed to when siging up to use their service. Frankly such activity rings warning bells for me and does not rest well.

Yep thats what my gut says. He said he was fine for me to buy from ebay if it made me feel more comfortable but won't offer the same deal if I do. 

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Damn good point.    Be aware,,,very aware.      How about a new Canaline engine? should not be too much bother to fit, use you own gearbox.

Hhmm I've just sent them a query. Do you know roughly how much they might go for? For a 37ft Colecraft narrowboat

 

Thanks all. I was wondering whether I was just being paranoid but I think it pays to be wary and doesn't quite add up. I can't find him or his business if I do an Internet search either! 

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, Jentreefication said:

Yep thats what my gut says. He said he was fine for me to buy from ebay if it made me feel more comfortable but won't offer the same deal if I do. 

Of course he won't.

ebay take a big percentage and PayPay take theirs's too. Its a sign though that he is prepared to be dishonest with ebay and PayPal who jointly are his shop window and of great value to him.

 

So how honest is he likely to be with you? Just a poor female on her own with no clout?

 

At his discounted, off ebay, price to you, I bet he is still making more than he would get on an honest ebay sale.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Jentreefication said:

Yep thats what my gut says. He said he was fine for me to buy from ebay if it made me feel more comfortable but won't offer the same deal if I do. 

Hhmm I've just sent them a query. Do you know roughly how much they might go for? For a 37ft Colecraft narrowboat

 

Thanks all. I was wondering whether I was just being paranoid but I think it pays to be wary and doesn't quite add up. I can't find him or his business if I do an Internet search either! 

 

He could be a one man sole trader working out of a big shed in his garden, and there is nothing wrong with that, low overheads = good price.

Also there are still many businesses that do not have a web presence, if he gets enough business from eBay or word of mouth then why pay for a website?

 

But...if you don't get a new engine then you are taking a risk....but then life itself is a risky thing and if you play 100% safe then nothing gets done.

 

............Dave

[dmr]

When my place of work shut down I sold a huge amount of our hoarded engineering treasures on ebay. I was often approached by buyers to do a buy it now deal outside of ebay. When I said no they never came in with a proper bid, and sometimes the stuff sold for less than their offer, so I concluded that something was not quite right.

 

............Dave

[Jentreefication]

15 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

He could be a one man sole trader working out of a big shed in his garden, and there is nothing wrong with that, low overheads = good price.

Also there are still many businesses that do not have a web presence, if he gets enough business from eBay or word of mouth then why pay for a website?

 

But...if you don't get a new engine then you are taking a risk....but then life itself is a risky thing and if you play 100% safe then nothing gets done.

 

............Dave

True true but in this its too big a gamble. If I get this wrong and need a new engine soon down the line because I bought a dud, I'm gonna struggle to finance it

[dmr]

11 minutes ago, Jentreefication said:

True true but in this its too big a gamble. If I get this wrong and need a new engine soon down the line because I bought a dud, I'm gonna struggle to finance it

 

Too many variables, how long do you plan on keeping this boat? I reckon not long, you will be looking for a bigger one soon ?.

A new engine is the safe and best option but its a lot to spend on a littlel old boat. Then again your survey suggests the hull is in pretty good condition so this boat has a lot of years life left in it, so maybe deserves a new engine.

 

Phone your mom and dad, have a nice friendly chat about this and that and then right at the end just mention that you need a new engine and you will repay their loan just as soon as can....that's how my daughter tackles most financial needs ?.

 

Initially you are going to live in a marina so the engine is not urgent, its just getting up the Thames that's the problem. If you could find another boat to travel with then that might be a way forward, then save up a bit of money to get a new engine?????

 

I can't make decisions for myself so can't do yours for you ?

 

...........Dave

 

[David Mack]

In your previous thread you were advised to check a few things on the existing engine and give it an "Italian tuneup", before deciding whether replacement is absolutely necessary. Now that the engine replacement option doesn't look so attractive, wouldn't you be better to reconsider this? Your planned trip up the Thames would be an ideal opportunity to do this on more open water. Just go in convoy with another boat so that in the unlikely event of the engine failing completely you have someone on hand to give you a tow.

Edited February 7, 2021 by David Mack

[dmr]

34 minutes ago, David Mack said:

In your previous thread you were advised to check a few things on the existing engine and give it an "Italian tuneup", before deciding whether replacement is absolutely necessary. Now that the engine replacement option doesn't look so attractive, wouldn't you be better to reconsider this? Your planned trip up the Thames would be an ideal opportunity to do this on more open water. Just go in convoy with another boat so that in the unlikely event of the engine failing completely you have someone on hand to give you a tow.

 

This is such a difficult decision to make. The current (previous?) owners believe it needs a rebore....but have they been well advised????

If its sticky rings then a good blast might fix it. I am not convinced that bore glazing can be cured in this way (on an old engine). As Tony says it might even be a blocked breather. If the engine really starts well from cold then the bores are maybe not so bad. I wish we knew what the oil consumption is.

The Thames is on reds at present so maybe Jen could do some cruising in London and answer some of these questions to allow a better decision to be made???....it depends on if she has time to do this.

Is there anybody near London who could just take the filler cap off and assess the degree of blowby????

She needs a reliable engine to do this boat move but a recently installed second hand engine is just as unknown as the current engine.

 

...........Dave

[Machpoint005]

4 hours ago, Jentreefication said:

He said he was fine for me to buy from ebay if it made me feel more comfortable but won't offer the same deal if I do. 

 

So why not the same deal? Because he doesn't want to risk the comeback he sees as entirely possible.

[Tracy D'arth]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

 

So why not the same deal? Because he doesn't want to risk the comeback he sees as entirely possible.

Not necessarily, its the ebay fees and PayPal commission that he will not pay if its an underhand deal, its a shitty way of doing business, makes him less credulous,

I'm always suspicious when I see all the shiny new paint all over an engine, When I rebuilt I only cleaned everything and enamelled the head and block so that it looked like a conscientious rebuild rather than a repainted heap.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

So why not the same deal? Because he doesn't want to risk the comeback he sees as entirely possible.

 

Probably because if he sold ex-ebay and he sells it for £2000, he gets £2000

If he sells it via ebay then he will be paying 10% comission + Paypal comission so to achieve the £2000 he wants he would need to sell it for ~£2500

 

[dmr]

So a second engine of unknown quality from a small second hand dealer is £1750 or maybe £2000.

Beta do not advertise prices but I think a brand new engine and gearbox could be had for about £5000. That's only an extra £3000 (which is probably easier to say than to find) and avoids a lot of uncertainty and is a long term investment.

 

We need a plan to get some diagnostic info from the current engine but its not easy, a visit from Tony would sort it but he's not a young man and will not want to go to London with all this covid stuff going on.

Are you a practical person Jen? If you went to London for a long weekend could you do a load of tests if the forum gives instructions?.....or even better can you get a good boat engineer to do an honest engine assessment?

 

...............Dave

 

 

[Phoenix_V]

The existing engine might blow up tomorrow on the other hand even with badly worn bores might go on for hundreds of hours if you can afford to use it a bit first and then make your mind up and get a second opinion on its condition. The ebay engine may be a good deal he obviously sees a lot of these engines and so will be able to replace some parts second hand but its an unknown and you are about to set off on a long journey. How does his guarantee work, how are you going to get it fitted. If it is a full recon he ought to be able to show evidence of what work has been done to the engine and test results for the bits not changed.  If you go for a new engine bear   in mind that if you buy the engine and then find someone to fit it you shouldn't accept the first price they quote and can haggle for a discount, ( if you get an engineer to fit it he will get the discount but should allow for it in the price he quotes you) a boat that size doesn't need more than 20hp, 15 would do (though probably need to change propeller to match). Beta and probably others will make up feet to match your existing and might fit your gearbox onto their engine to save a bit.