deckhand Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 We bought a boat and are "doing her up". We emptied the water tank, stripped out the sinks and the bath and shower (kitchen and bathroom) and now suddenly a mooring has come up that is near our home. We are in a quandary as to whether we need to fill up the water to move her. We will need to blank off all the pipes if we need to fill. I suppose what we are worried about is if the engine heats the water and theres no water there, are we going to cause damage? Im sorry if it seems a stupid question, and apologise if the question is a simple one but if someone could put our minds at rest and advise what we need to do, we would appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicknorman Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 No there is no need to fill up the calorifier with water. The engine coolant water will just circulate through the coil in the calorifier, no harm done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, deckhand said: We bought a boat and are "doing her up". We emptied the water tank, stripped out the sinks and the bath and shower (kitchen and bathroom) and now suddenly a mooring has come up that is near our home. We are in a quandary as to whether we need to fill up the water to move her. We will need to blank off all the pipes if we need to fill. I suppose what we are worried about is if the engine heats the water and theres no water there, are we going to cause damage? Im sorry if it seems a stupid question, and apologise if the question is a simple one but if someone could put our minds at rest and advise what we need to do, we would appreciate it. I hope Im understanding your question correctly but circulating hot water through the engine supplied coil will not damage anything as such. But you may find your engine will initially run hotter than norm as there is one place less to lose/transfer heat. Keep an eye on the temp gauge. All that said @Tony Brooks is your man for this one I would suggest. Edited August 30, 2020 by The Happy Nomad Edit to satisfy the willy wavers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 Unless you have drained the calorifier it will still be full of water, they fill from the bottom and empty from the top. If so as it warms up you may get some spillage due to expansion. No damage will result running the engine, check the oil and water first ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckhand Posted August 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 thankyou. we will pop up to the marina and fire her up tomorrow (after all the checks) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, deckhand said: We bought a boat and are "doing her up". We emptied the water tank, stripped out the sinks and the bath and shower (kitchen and bathroom) and now suddenly a mooring has come up that is near our home. We are in a quandary as to whether we need to fill up the water to move her. We will need to blank off all the pipes if we need to fill. I suppose what we are worried about is if the engine heats the water and theres no water there, are we going to cause damage? Im sorry if it seems a stupid question, and apologise if the question is a simple one but if someone could put our minds at rest and advise what we need to do, we would appreciate it. Are the engine to calorifier pipes still connected to the calorifier ? If you have disconnected them then you will be 'dumping' the engine coolant that would have been circulating around the cauliflower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said: .............you may find your engine will run hotter than norm as there is one place less to lose/transfer heat. I doubt that is the case . The calorifier should not be part of the engine cooling system design. I have two engines, one with a calorifier , otherwise identical . Both run at the same temperature . Maybe the engine with the calorifier takes a little longer to warm up . I have never checked. Edited August 30, 2020 by MartynG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said: I hope Im understanding your question correctly but circulating hot water through the engine supplied coil will not damage anything as such. But you may find your engine will run hotter than norm as there is one place less to lose/transfer heat. Keep an eye on the temp gauge. All that said @Tony Brooks is your man for this one I would suggest. So once the water tank is warmed up does that mean that the engine will run hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tonka said: So once the water tank is warmed up does that mean that the engine will run hotter. The question was about an empty calorifier, not one that is full of water. I would suspect running engine coolant through an empty calorifier will at the very least result in a slightly quicker warm up time. Edited August 30, 2020 by The Happy Nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonka Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 Yes but isnt it the same effect once the water in the tank has warmed up. It won't be cooling the engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterF Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 My engine cooling water to the calorifier coil has valves in, so I can close one of those valves so I do not heat an empty calorifier if it is drained dow . See if yours has valves. If you run the engine with an empty calorifier the engine may heat up more quickly but will not get any hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2020 Report Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tonka said: Yes but isnt it the same effect once the water in the tank has warmed up. It won't be cooling the engine. The tank in question hasnt got any water in it, what are you banging on about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 To the running without water in the calorifier assuming the OP physically drained it. I checked this with the plumbing lecturers at Reading College and they said the water might help support and damp any vibrations in the coils so there might be an increased risk of failure. However they know indirect cylinders rather than the thicker calorifiers and I have been winter boating many times without water in the calorifier. On the hire fleet we did find one particular design of horizontal calorifier had a tendency to have failed at a single point when we recommissioned in the spring but I suspect it was a poor design. I would not worry about running without water in the calorifier. Engine temperature - the temperature of the engine with a properly designed cooling system is controlled by the thermostat. If the engine runs hotter with a dry calorifier then the system (skin tank) is not properly designed for that engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 8 hours ago, The Happy Nomad said: The tank in question hasnt got any water in it, what are you banging on about? You started it by suggesting a potential overheating issue by running with an empty calorifier which is completely wrong. Are you suggesting an engine with a calorifier should not be run if you run out of domestic water ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MartynG said: You started it by suggesting a potential overheating issue by running with an empty calorifier which is completely wrong. Are you suggesting an engine with a calorifier should not be run if you run out of domestic water ? I merely suggested its worth keeping an eye on the temp, no harm in doing that in my view. And I didn't actually say over heat either. I said 'run hotter then normal. That is not the same thing. As Tony has just pointed out the lack of water should not be an issue in an efficiently and properly designed system, BUT the OP's might not be for all we know. So I stand by my suggestion that keeping a particular eye on the temp. is a good idea, certainly initially. Edited August 31, 2020 by The Happy Nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said: the temperature of the engine with a properly designed cooling system is controlled by the thermostat. ^^ Yes, this. It shouldn't make any difference to the engine temperature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) I should perhaps clarify that my initial comments were made in good faith and based on actual experience of moving a boat that was empty of domestic water, the owner who I was helping move commented his engine was running hotter than usual. As we bimbled along we talked through possible reasons for this and he mentioned he had run the water dry the day previous and was planning to fill at the next opportunity. Although the calorifier was probably not itself completely drained we put it down to this. Sure enough when we refilled and pulled some water through. the engine ran a little cooler. Given Tony's post there is now the obvious explanation that the cooling system/skin tank was inadequate for the boat in question. He cant do anything about now as the boat was sold long ago. So yes it shouldn't happen but it can happen, hence my suggestion. Its pretty obvious from some posts on here that an inadequately specd cooling system/skin tank is not exactly an unkown issue. Edited August 31, 2020 by The Happy Nomad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb Innisfree Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 If calorifier feed is teed off before engine thermostat the engine will be slower reaching its max temp, especially if cal is full of cold water. If it's teed off after t/stat then engine won't be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Thanks - that is why mine works the way it does! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckhand Posted August 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 18 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: Are the engine to calorifier pipes still connected to the calorifier ? If you have disconnected them then you will be 'dumping' the engine coolant that would have been circulating around the cauliflower. yes still connected, have not disconnected them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 38 minutes ago, deckhand said: yes still connected, have not disconnected them Then you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Brummie Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 If the cauliflower is not particularly well insulated, then it is possible that, when full, it may stop the thermostat reaching full temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said: If the cauliflower is not particularly well insulated, then it is possible that, when full, it may stop the thermostat reaching full temperature. I can’t see that happening. The cauliflower coil isn’t that big; it’d just be acting like a heater coil in a car on a cold day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said: If the cauliflower is not particularly well insulated, then it is possible that, when full, it may stop the thermostat reaching full temperature. ? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckhand Posted August 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: Then you'll be fine. We have not specifically emptied the calorifier. We drained the water tank down to the point of nothing coming out of the taps on last winterise. will this have emptied the calorifier? or is that a specific separate job? It ended up with us having to turn the pump off in the end as there wasnt enough water for the prv in the end, Upon 'gently knocking' the side of the tank, it sounds empty but that is only based on listening. Not too sure on what a full tank sounds like so maybe a bit unreliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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