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Parahandy

They Dont Hang Around Long

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38 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Is that someone on here's boat? Looks familiar so guessing either that or I've seen it moored up near me?

No one on here's boat and it's nowhere near you, maybe you've seen it on YouTube.

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4 hours ago, PD1964 said:

I can't get my head around the "Canal Tickers" too, those boaters that rush from place to place, canal to canal, just to get a brass plaque and screw it to their rear doors or cabin wall. Theye done all the canals in the country but have seen nothing of the town's and cities they've passed through or explored the countryside they've just seen from the back of their boat.

This resonates with me. When we first embarked on our continuous cruising experience we dashed along canals, ticking them off. We realized at some point we weren't seeing anything of the places we passed through. After that, for the next few years we slowed down, spending as long as we were allowed on each place and actually visiting the areas we passed through.

I remember recounting this on the forum at the time during a discussion about how far a continuous cruiser should travel during a year and coming under attack from @nicknormanappparently enjoying the areas you're travelling through means you're not undertaking bone fida navigation.

Hey ho

That wasn't the first or last time he attacked me - I never understood what I'd done to deserve it.

Baffled and hurt :(

Edited by Ange
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6 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Bit judgemental, maybe? I can't believe that people who have cruised as much as you suggest haven't visited and enjoyed the towns  etc. Surely they are more likely to be genuine continuous cruisers, wandering round the place rather than just bridgehopping and looking for excuses not to move. 

You certainly can't do it as a leisure boater - I've had mine thirty years and never had the time even to get to London, and I do more boating than most who don't live on. Got no plaques, though. Or horse brasses! 

 

Blimey Arthur - you don't know what you are missing....... can even cruise to the inner sanctum of modern heaven - Islington. :)

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4 hours ago, Ange said:

This resonates with me. When we first embarked on our continuous cruising experience we dashed along canals, ticking them off. We realized at some point we weren't seeing anything of the places we passed through. After that, for the next few years we slowed down, spending as long as we were allowed on each place and actually visiting the areas we passed through.

I remember recounting this on the forum at the time during a discussion about how far a continuous cruiser should travel during a year and coming under attack from @nicknormanappparently enjoying the areas you're travelling through means you're not undertaking bone fida navigation.

Hey ho

That wasn't the first or last time he attacked me - I never understood what I'd done to deserve it.

Baffled and hurt 

When I got the boat first, I admit I wanted to see as much of the system as I could, so tended to cruise for seven or eight hour days, like what hirers do. It's the excitement of the new, I think. Now I potter for two or three hours until I find a pleasant place,and stop and enjoy it. Both ways are valid and just as much fun in their way, both are cruising and both can be criticised by those with fixed and inflexible ideas.

Attacks generally reflect the insecurities of the attacker (for examples see the political wing of the forum), and usually have nothing to do with the attackee, who may be baffled but should try to avoid being hurt. Just feel a little pity for the sadness of the attacker.

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21 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

When I got the boat first, I admit I wanted to see as much of the system as I could, so tended to cruise for seven or eight hour days, like what hirers do. It's the excitement of the new, I think. Now I potter for two or three hours until I find a pleasant place,and stop and enjoy it. Both ways are valid and just as much fun in their way, both are cruising and both can be criticised by those with fixed and inflexible ideas.

Attacks generally reflect the insecurities of the attacker (for examples see the political wing of the forum), and usually have nothing to do with the attackee, who may be baffled but should try to avoid being hurt. Just feel a little pity for the sadness of the attacker.

Nicknorman has never struck me as being either aggressive or insecure , I have always found him informative , educated and indeed tolerant as I am sure many others do . Its a pity the same old suspects frequently even without a Boat seem to spend their life continually naming and shaming Members who they somehow perceive they have been wronged by . I suspect that in real life many are Social misfits that simply wouldn't be tolerated in any other sphere apart from Social Media . Here we have someone still stewing over a perceived slight which happened bloody years ago , get over it and move on , everyone else has .

2 hours ago, mark99 said:

 

Blimey Arthur - you don't know what you are missing....... can even cruise to the inner sanctum of modern heaven - Islington. :)

This surprises me , he has the ukulele and I have the Jack Russell , I know a good spot on the Pentonville Road where Arthur can knock out a few tunes and I can mind his money 😀

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1 hour ago, Parahandy said:

 

This surprises me , he has the ukulele and I have the Jack Russell , I know a good spot on the Pentonville Road where Arthur can knock out a few tunes and I can mind his money 😀

I hate busking!  Cold, hard work and not good for whatever instrument you're wielding... when I was out of work and skint and didn't have any band work, I used to go busking in Birkenhead with the melodeon.  Financially (and this was twenty or thirty years ago) it was fairly well paid - you made about £10 an hour, but it's soul destroying.  When the Albert Dock in Liverpool was being done up, I was one of the first buskers there (by invitation, I may add) and that was definitely worth it - very "in" place for all the Liverpool well off to go, so it was worth about £30 an hour, but only for about three hours on a Saturday or Sunday.  I packed it in when they started issuing us with ID cards and demanding a million quid's worth of public liability insurance,presumably in case someone was so entranced with listening to us that they fell in the dock.  Or in too much of a hurry to get out of earshot...

The trouble with busking generally is that you find you only get money from one or two popular tunes - never mind how clever some of the others are you have to keep playing the same old stuff.  Drove a banjo'guitarist combo into near meltdown because they only got any cash if they played duelling banjos - and playing that fifty times a day scrambles your brains.

I still always give to acoustic buskers. Rarely to the amplified ones though, never to the ones with backing tracks.

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10 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I hate busking!  Cold, hard work and not good for whatever instrument you're wielding... when I was out of work and skint and didn't have any band work, I used to go busking in Birkenhead with the melodeon.  Financially (and this was twenty or thirty years ago) it was fairly well paid - you made about £10 an hour, but it's soul destroying.  When the Albert Dock in Liverpool was being done up, I was one of the first buskers there (by invitation, I may add) and that was definitely worth it - very "in" place for all the Liverpool well off to go, so it was worth about £30 an hour, but only for about three hours on a Saturday or Sunday.  I packed it in when they started issuing us with ID cards and demanding a million quid's worth of public liability insurance,presumably in case someone was so entranced with listening to us that they fell in the dock.  Or in too much of a hurry to get out of earshot...

The trouble with busking generally is that you find you only get money from one or two popular tunes - never mind how clever some of the others are you have to keep playing the same old stuff.  Drove a banjo'guitarist combo into near meltdown because they only got any cash if they played duelling banjos - and playing that fifty times a day scrambles your brains.

I still always give to acoustic buskers. Rarely to the amplified ones though, never to the ones with backing tracks.

Im a frustrated Musician Arthur and being talentless in many regards I am in awe of anyone that can play an instrument . I realise that its slightly to the South of you but I happened to come across an Interview by Roy Wood of the Move and Wizzard , I believe he lives in Uttoxeter and he was talking about something called Brum Beat and the sound encapsulated by all those Midland Bands of the late fifties through to the mid seventies . I never knew such a thing existed , I suppose in the minds of many it was always overshadowed by Mersey Beat but his reminiscing I found fascinating . I dont know if the Music loses something when it translates from the Pub Circuit to the Stadium but to hear of Carl Wayne , Bev Bevan , Jeff Lynne , Jim Lea and numerous others I just didn't realise the volume of the Musical talent the Midlands produced . Sorry for the digression Arthur but Roy Wood I think is a genius

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11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

The reason for the widespread concern about the proliferation of widebeams on the GU is that at the current rate it is filling up with them, people who want to actually cruise on the GU as opposed to living on a static boat are gonna find themselves squeezed out in a few more years. 

 

It might be an irrational fear, but that is the base reason for the widespread dismay about so many widbeams on the GU.

 

Anecdotally the GU round where I loiter does indeed appear to be getting more and more boats CCing year on year. More and more of those boats are the widebeam variety.

So far there's only been a few examples I've seen where they have significantly impeded navigation, but mostly they have been fine. 

My experience is that they do tend to moor up in more 'in-experienced' locations; causing some minor inconvenience for others due to their beam. Basically moored in the sort of location I have never seen, nor would never expect a working pair to moor.

 

Watching them move around looks immensely stressful, with their front roof corners often protruding over the width, seeing them line up for brigde-holes involves a lot of running from side to side (due to roof height) for the steerer (as well as someone on the bow guiding/yelling). Not my cup of tea.

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Just now, doratheexplorer said:

Hey! I sort of do that, in my head! :unsure:

That's OK, canal spotter was not a pejorative! Some of my closest friends are railway enthusiasts...

 

I'm just not sure it gets anyone automatic rights to feel more entitled to any particular mooring than someone trying to accommodate themselves/loved ones within reasonable travelling distance (e.g. 10miles, plus a little bit...) from a place of work/education/other loved ones etc.

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1 minute ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I'm just not sure it gets anyone automatic rights to feel more entitled to any particular mooring than someone trying to accommodate themselves/loved ones within reasonable travelling distance (e.g. 10miles, plus a little bit...) from a place of work/education/other loved ones etc.

You are young grasshopper, but you will learn.

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4 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

That's OK, canal spotter was not a pejorative! Some of my closest friends are railway enthusiasts...

 

I'm just not sure it gets anyone automatic rights to feel more entitled to any particular mooring than someone trying to accommodate themselves/loved ones within reasonable travelling distance (e.g. 10miles, plus a little bit...) from a place of work/education/other loved ones etc.

Surly if you need to stay in one place you need a permanent mooring to be certain of a space being available 

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You are young grasshopper, but you will learn.

If the older grasshoppers around here are anything to go by that is not a given...

(I like that there are plenty of canal-splaining comments headed in my direction but no actual, erm, real contrary information...)

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Surly if you need to stay in one place you need a permanent mooring to be certain of a space being available 

I do and so I have one. Some people (land or canal based) either can't afford that or are happier commuting for the cost saving/quality of life. There are plenty of CC-ing plans which don't take you much further than 10miles (in either direction, making 20 miles in all) from where you need to be at certain times. Think the CRT provide examples for people who need to be near schools in term time.

 

Edited to add: I've ALSO used pre-bookable mooring in a busy location I was passing through which guarantees the same thing for visitors (such as canal spotters)... but those wandering around the network sometimes object to having to pay for moorings in particular locations. The argument ("if you wanna be guaranteed a mooring in a popular spot for n nights then pay for it" is kind of the same regardless of the size of n though...)

Edited by TheMenagerieAfloat
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2 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

I like that there are plenty of canal-splaining comments headed in my direction but no actual, erm, real contrary information...

In the mid 60's there was fully detailed report commissioned (called the Fraenkel Report) on the state of the canals it is a 100's of pages major document detailing almost every feature of canals.

This report is still used today by the Navigation Authorities for dredging, maintenance etc.

 

Just as one example of the detail it researched the dimensions of the vessels that the canal was designed to use.

 

 

 

So, to cut a long story short, here is an example of such information. 

 

 

Screenshot (70).png

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So, to cut a long story short, here is an example of such information.

See, that is kind of interesting! Can you pop the GU bit on?

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7 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

See, that is kind of interesting! Can you pop the GU bit on?

Its spread over loads of pages and, its a Pdf which are not allowed to be posted on the forum, so, another brief extract as a screen shot.

 

Showing part of the GU and the K&A

 

Screenshot (71).png

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2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I hate busking!  Cold, hard work and not good for whatever instrument you're wielding... when I was out of work and skint and didn't have any band work, I used to go busking in Birkenhead with the melodeon.  Financially (and this was twenty or thirty years ago) it was fairly well paid - you made about £10 an hour, but it's soul destroying.  When the Albert Dock in Liverpool was being done up, I was one of the first buskers there (by invitation, I may add) and that was definitely worth it - very "in" place for all the Liverpool well off to go, so it was worth about £30 an hour, but only for about three hours on a Saturday or Sunday.  I packed it in when they started issuing us with ID cards and demanding a million quid's worth of public liability insurance,presumably in case someone was so entranced with listening to us that they fell in the dock.  Or in too much of a hurry to get out of earshot...

The trouble with busking generally is that you find you only get money from one or two popular tunes - never mind how clever some of the others are you have to keep playing the same old stuff.  Drove a banjo'guitarist combo into near meltdown because they only got any cash if they played duelling banjos - and playing that fifty times a day scrambles your brains.

I still always give to acoustic buskers. Rarely to the amplified ones though, never to the ones with backing tracks.

 

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Here we go... found it on a FOI site.

 

Says fat boats are good on a reasonable amount of the GU as far as I can see...

GU.png

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Yes - at the Southern end, but not in the 'Midlands' where there are a preponderance of fatties being launched - some are even being launched between locks that they cannot fit thru so are 'land locked' in a single pound.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes - at the Southern end, but not in the 'Midlands' where there are a preponderance of fatties being launched - some are even being launched between locks that they cannot fit thru so are 'land locked' in a single pound.

The good news is that the 'southern end' includes the best to commutes to Hoxton coffee bars so the baristas are good with their chubby boats. And my coal boats are not a figment of my deluded mind.

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17 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Here we go... found it on a FOI site.

It is well worth a 'read' -  loads of useful information that can be used to counter arguments with those 'who wish it was' rather than this is 'what it is'.

Remember that that document is just chapter 10 of part 6 of the whole report.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is well worth a 'read' -  loads of useful information that can be used to counter arguments with those 'who wish it was' rather than this is 'what it is'.

Remember that that document is just chapter 10 of part 6 of the whole report.

Yes, I've not time to find a nice map of the whole GU and highlight on it which bits (vast majority of the 'fun' or 'likely to provide employment' ones) were considered fat boat friendly at that time but shall consider it an exercise for another day.

 

I don't even have (or much like the look of) a fat boat but people canal-splaining that they don't fit places where they do fit but ppl wd rather they weren't could do with a nice graphic I feel 🙂

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5 minutes ago, TheMenagerieAfloat said:

Yes, I've not time to find a nice map of the whole GU and highlight on it which bits (vast majority of the 'fun' or 'likely to provide employment' ones) were considered fat boat friendly at that time but shall consider it an exercise for another day.

 

I don't even have (or much like the look of) a fat boat but people canal-splaining that they don't fit places where they do fit but ppl wd rather they weren't could do with a nice graphic I feel 🙂

There’s no confusion about the dimensions. Wide boats can transit from London to inner city Birmingham. I’m sure that’s pretty common knowledge amongst forum members.

 

The issue is that the canal never saw regular use of wide beam boats for carrying north of Berkhamsted and has not been maintained for such for many decades. Those published dimensions are a function of maintenance policy over and above the design dimensions. It’s also the case there are a number pinch points north of Berkhamsted such as Tring cutting, Blisworth and Braunston tunnels, and some bridges on the Birmingham line. In these places a wide beam craft cannot physically pass any other craft. In other places the lack of a wide dredged channel and overhanging vegetation makes navigation of wide beams problematical for both the wide beam and other canal users. It’s not just about the ability to fit in locks.
 

There is a particular issue with wide beams on the stretch of the Oxford Canal from Braunston toward Hillmorton which is officially a narrow beam canal but is accessible to wide beams.

 

That said my own experience of transiting these canals is that issues with wide beam boats is not a daily occurrence.

 

My personal view is that if CRT wishes to issue an increased number of licences to wide beam craft (and legally I don’t think they can refuse) then they need to improve maintenance standards and if necessary introduce controls that strike a balance between all users.

 

Personally I’m of the view that in it’s day the Grand Union Canal Company did more damage to the history of Midlands canals and it’s people than the current popularity of wide beam boats is ever likely to do. But over time the GUCC has become part of canal history, as will the current trend for living on boats and trying not to move very much in due course.

 

JP

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12 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

The issue is that the canal never saw regular use of wide beam boats for carrying north of Berkhamsted and has not been maintained for such for many decades. Those published dimensions are a function of maintenance policy over and above the design dimensions. It’s also the case there are a number pinch points north of Berkhamsted such as Tring cutting, Blisworth and Braunston tunnels, and some bridges on the Birmingham line. In these places a wide beam craft cannot physically pass any other craft. In other places the lack of a wide dredged channel and overhanging vegetation makes navigation of wide beams problematical for both the wide beam and other canal users. It’s not just about the ability to fit in locks.

 

Channel dredging widths & depths

 

 

 

Screenshot (72).png

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