understanding my batteries ???

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Pompey said:

Apologies for any offence caused, certainly not intended.

We all know nothing at birth and have to learn, it is better to learn about the subject before entering into discussions and making statements that are irrelevant or worse, untrue.

 

God gave us two ears and one mouth, they should be used in the same proportions.

 

It is better to keep your mouth closed and look a fool, than open it and confirm it.

 

 

Stick with us, there is a huge amount to learn about battery management and being probably the most difficult to understand takes some understanding.

Ask your questions and implement the information provided. The forum is a fantastic resource and has proven to give better information than that  many boaters have received from 'paid for experts'.

 

Boating batteries and electrical systems are unlike anything else. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Lord Gadbury]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We all know nothing at birth and have to learn, it is better to learn about the subject before entering into discussions and making statements that are irrelevant or worse, untrue.

 

God gave us two ears and one mouth, they should be used in the same proportions.

 

It is better to keep your mouth closed and look a fool, than open it and confirm it.

 

 

Stick with us, there is a huge amount to learn about battery management and being probably the most difficult to understand takes some understanding.

Ask your questions and implement the information provided. The forum is a fantastic resource and has proven to give better information than that  many boaters have received from 'paid for experts'.

 

Boating batteries and electrical systems are unlike anything else. 

Fair comment, cant disagree. 2 ears, 1 mouth. Use them in that order. *Edit 2 eyes, in this case.

 

I do understand the paid for 'ex-sperts. 'A has been, under pressure''.

 

I will stick around, thanks.

 

I have seen previously how people are willing to help on this forum.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Pompey

[Boater Sam]

2 hours ago, Pompey said:

Fair comment, cant disagree. 2 ears, 1 mouth. Use them in that order. *Edit 2 eyes, in this case.

 

I do understand the paid for 'ex-sperts. 'A has been, under pressure''.

 

I will stick around, thanks.

 

I have seen previously how people are willing to help on this forum.

 

 

Oh, don't grovel too much, ? there are some on here who will eat you alive, better to stand tall from a position of command rather than get bullied off. 

Mostly they seem to be plumbers strangely.?

[roland elsdon]

My batteries rarely failed in the 1980s and 1990s just fired up the trusty gas powered honda ex650 and 2  times 10 amp rms  dim chargers twice a week and off we went. Incandescent bulbs n all.

 

now after an exhausting amount of research, an advarc, solar panels , Led lights et all the batteries last just the same ie slightly less time than you think they should.

[Lord Gadbury]

3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

Oh, don't grovel too much, ? there are some on here who will eat you alive, better to stand tall from a position of command rather than get bullied off. 

Mostly they seem to be plumbers strangely.?

Plumbing was the first thing I learned owning a boat

 

[rusty69]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

What makes you think he is a British Marine certified Electrician and Electronics installer?

 

Apologies to Pompey if I got the wrong end of the stick 

[Lord Gadbury]

No you didn't get it wrong, 

 

I have been down to the GU, by car. And did some jobs.

 

My past work history, has proved I will get it done. Now I have passed two exams which say I know that you need a positive and a negative to create a circuit, which I learnt a long, long time ago.

 

Again, apologies for any offence, I am now 'stuck' at Buxsworth Basin unless you have an engine hoist, and within travelling distance of Buxsworth, Derbyshire.

[Boater Sam]

7 minutes ago, Pompey said:

No you didn't get it wrong, 

 

I have been down to the GU, by car. And did some jobs.

 

My past work history, has proved I will get it done. Now I have passed two exams which say I know that you need a positive and a negative to create a circuit, which I learnt a long, long time ago.

 

Again, apologies for any offence, I am now 'stuck' at Buxsworth Basin unless you have an engine hoist, and within travelling distance of Buxsworth, Derbyshire.

Sorry, have I missed something? You are stuck. why? At Bugsworth basin Whaley Bridge?  What do you need, New Mills, Newtown  is probably the nearest boatyard.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Boater Sam

[rusty69]

7 hours ago, Pompey said:

I will stick around, thanks.

Please do.There are a lot of knowledgeable folk on this forum.

 

 

 

(I'm not one of them though).

[Lord Gadbury]

Neither am I obviously. Thanks.

 

As for the breakdown.

 

A long story short, my engine, all 187 Kgs of it was being held in by one m8 bolt, due to my AVM's not working.

 

I have new AVM's, need some shims making, then I can think about, putting engine and propulsion back together,

 

Like I said every day is a learning experience,

 

Life's Great

[MtB]

2 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Apologies to Pompey if I got the wrong end of the stick 

 

Most puzzling. I wasn't querying whether he is so qualified, I was asking where on the forum you are finding this. I can't find it so there must be a forum corner somewhere I haven't discovered, hence my curiosity!

 

Where did you find this, please? 

 

Fanx!

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Mike the Boilerman
Add a bit

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Most puzzling. I wasn't querying whether he is so qualified, I was asking where on the forum you are finding this. I can't find it so there must be a forum corner somewhere I haven't discovered, hence my curiosity!

 

Where did you find this, please? 

 

Fanx!

 

 

 

His website is shown in his details.

[MtB]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

His website is shown in his details.

 

Not for me it isn't.

 

 

The question now has to be 'what details'? 

 

I'll have another look on his profile...

 

 

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Pompey said:

Again, apologies for any offence,

 

 

I very much doubt anyone is offended, why would they be? Most of us here are just concerned that accurate, peer-reviewed information and advice is posted here. 

 

If anyone posts something that appears to be technically wrong or misleading, people will pop up to say so and question it. This is all that is happening.

 

If you are sure of your ground then please feel free to push back and explain why you are right. Its expected really. This is how the forum maintains its high standard of technical advice and information. The ensuing debates themselves are usually very enlightening!

 

Anyway welcome to the forum. and I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was offended by your posts. I'm not.  Do keep posting but expect to be challenged if anyone thinks you're wrong about something. And feel free to do the same back!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Mike the Boilerman

[Lord Gadbury]

18 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

I never meant any, fanx ( thats a new word for me BTW )

 

As far as I am aware, I haven't upset anybody whilst on the towpath, i have met some great people, also met some complete assholes, 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Pompey

[Dr Bob]

On 08/01/2020 at 08:41, waterdog said:

 

This morning (7.45) so a full 12 hours later, the voltage was at 12.45v so battery bank at 75% with mastervolt panel saying we had used 52ah.

 

 

 

Getting back to the OP, I am not sure the OP really has that much of a problem but as always more data is needed.

 

There are clearly 2 issues. 1) is he fully charging his batteries and 2) what is the capacity now? I would try and de-link the problems.

Is he fully charging? I guess the batteries have been kept full most of the time as he is on shore power and we assume the charger is working. The comments about 14.1V being not enough are difficult to confirm as he does say he sees 14.4V so maybe the 14.1V is just the charge controller (wotever that is) going to float too soon as many of them do. Also having 1000W+ on the roof is not going to help look at voltages in the day even in winter. There will be some voltage from solar in daylight. Suffice to say that it is likely the OP is near full so for working out capacity, lets assume he is 95% +. We need more data (ie voltage vs current) as the charge gets up to 100%.

 

What is the capacity? I dont think it is as bad as it sounds. As above, lets assume it is at least 95% SoC. The 12.45V at 7.45am needs defining a bit better. This morning....a sunny day.... our solar started to kick in about 8.05am (Warwickshire) so I guess there will be no solar input at 7.45am (where is the boat.....if on the east coast then maybe?). The OP says the inverter plus fridge/freezer was on.....but were the compressors running? Our inverter takes 1.7A with no fridge compressor.....we always have 'bits' running (ie rasp pie, router, alexa etc). On our system that 1.7-2.0A will depress the voltage by 0.1v so 12.45V wil be 12.55V at rest. It is also a bit cold compared to the 20°C+ that the voltage tables are based on and being down at 5-10°C (where are the batteries....in a crusier stern?) then there will be a reduction in voltage with a 2A draw. What temp are your batteries at?

The 50Ahr overnight usage is not a million miles for what I use from 5pm to 8am and the voltage drop looks pretty typical for that type of current draw. If the 12.45V is when a compressor is on and drawing 5A then the at rest voltage could be even higher.

Assuming no solar (likely) and assuming a 2A draw or maybe 5A draw then 12.45V for 50Ahr use may give 300Ahr or even 400Ahr capacity. If I was the OP , I would turn everything off at 6.30am and leave it to rest for an hour to recover and then take a voltage reading to compare to your Ahrs out. Sounds like your batteries are good for a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

The BMEA thing perked my interest

 

It seems one of the certificates they offer for marine electricians cost over £800 for non-British Marine (Federation) members and lasts for just two days. If the marine electronics installers' course is similar it looks to me as if those qualifications are getting on for worthless UNLESS the candidate is already very well versed in auto-electrics.  Unfortunately I could see no stated pre-requisites for attending. I am tempted to say the course outline looked a lot like the one I ran for Reading College and RCR for boaters and costing far less money. However I only ever gave a certificate of attendance, never a certificate of competence because two days is about 4 years and 363 days short of what is required to gain sufficient experience to become competent across a wide range of installations and equipment (in my view).

 

Looks more like a money making scheme for British Marine than a real attempt to get properly trained people into the industry to me. Hope I am wrong.

[WotEver]

13 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Looks more like a money making scheme for British Marine than a real attempt to get properly trained people into the industry to me. Hope I am wrong.

Having looked at their website I tend to agree. They state that the ideal candidate will have “at least one year's experience in marine electronics, or equivalent.” but it doesn’t appear that that requirement is in any way policed, just so long as the candidate coughs up best part of a grand. 

[Tumshie]

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

It seems one of the certificates they offer for marine electricians cost over £800 for non-British Marine (Federation) members and lasts for just two days.

? £800 for a certificate that only lasts two days - that's daylight robbery. 

[rusty69]

5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Most puzzling. I wasn't querying whether he is so qualified, I was asking where on the forum you are finding this. I can't find it so there must be a forum corner somewhere I haven't discovered, hence my curiosity!

 

Where did you find this, please? 

 

Fanx!

 

 

 

Ah ,so sorry for the misunderstanding. I found it by looking through Pompey's content.

[waterdog]

Thanks to all that have responded, other stuff has got in the way for now but I will report back once I get round to taking the readings that have been suggested.

[Tony Brooks]

On 10/01/2020 at 14:33, WotEver said:

Having looked at their website I tend to agree. They state that the ideal candidate will have “at least one year's experience in marine electronics, or equivalent.” but it doesn’t appear that that requirement is in any way policed, just so long as the candidate coughs up best part of a grand. 

and in the context of this question what the hell has electRONICS got to do with it? The experience needed is in 12/24V DC ELECTRICS. I well remember a fair number of army electronic students who failed their phase tests and got back squadded to vehicles. They were absolutely petrified by the fact we happily expected them to wok on circuits carrying hundreds of amps and were convinced they would die if they touched a live 12/24V conductor.

 

BM do seem to offer three courses and I think experience in a well defined branch of electronics is probably correct for one course but the one relevant to this topic should, in my view, as for proof of experience in automotive, plant, or agricultural vehicle ELECTRICS.

[WotEver]

36 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

and in the context of this question what the hell has electRONICS got to do with it?

Yup, I wondered the same thing. 

[nicknorman]

Boats are increasingly full of electronics. Well ours is, anyway.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Boats are increasingly full of electronics. Well ours is, anyway.

Yes but that is your choice. I bet the vast majority of inland boats have virtually no electronics save those inside a rev counter, radio and alternator. plus battery chargers and inverters if the boat has them.

 

BM offer three courses one of which is straight electrics, electronic installation is another one.