Planning Application For 10 Boats for 'Holiday Accommodation

[Alan de Enfield]

Lake District - Grasmere,

 

10 boats 12 foot x 40 foot

 

https://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=7/2019/5808&backURL=%3Ca%20href%3Dwphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C%2Fa%3E%20 > <a href%3D'wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL%3FResultID%3D1985207%26StartIndex%3D21%26SortOrder%3Drgndat%3Adesc%26DispResultsAs%3Dwphappsresweek1%26BackURL%3D%3Ca%20href%3Dwphappcriteria.display%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C%2Fa%3E%20'>Search Results<%2Fa>

 

3.4 In more detail, the proposal involves the following:

1. The mooring of up to 10 boats, most commonly in the south-east part of the lake.  

2. Cars will park at one of three car parks located on White Moss Common and owned by Lowther Estate Trust. Once parked, visitors will walk to the embarkation point nearest the moorings (marked on plan 9144/101). The nearest car park is located 750m from the embarkation point.

3. No jetties or pontoons are proposed or necessary. Visitors will board each boat by a rowing boat.  

4. The boats are capable of cruising at a moment’s notice and anchorage anywhere on Grasmere overnight. Thus, the position of “moored boats” marked on plan 9144/101 only identifies the commonest point of embarkation, disembarkation and overnight mooring.

5. The deck and cabin of each boat includes a toilet, kitchen and sleeping quarters large enough for 6 people.

6. Each boat is capable of sustaining itself for about one week before needing new food supplies. All waste will be collected on-board. No sewerage or grey water will be discharged into the lake.

7. Visitors will stay overnight for up to one week. 8.

No services are connected to the boats (eg electricity).

9. Each boat is a “Gentleman’s yacht”, looking like the photo at “Boat Specification (November 2019)” and with these specifications: a. Measuring up to 40 feet long x 12 feet beam (width at its widest point) b. One engine. A 5 horse power electric motor.  c. Six berths 

[Murflynn]

big boat for 5hp electric.  wouldn't want to struggle back to the mooring from the other end of Grasmere against a strong breeze with a bit of a chop on and the battery meter dropping like a stone.  no electricity hook-up, so perhaps 'one engine' means a generator.     

[magpie patrick]

I'm trying to work out which bits of this they actually need planning consent for - it's one of those conundrums, one half of my brain is saying "they must need it" and the other "what constitutes development under the terms of the act then?"

 

If the car parks are existing they don't need consent

 

If the moorings are not permanent they don't need consent (I realise Grasmere is limited in size but it's big enough to make declaring the whole of it as the development somewhat dubious, unless there is no leisure use of Grasmere at all at present)

 

The boats themselves don't need consent, hence the "it will look a bit like this" picture

 

According to Wikipedia, powered boats are prohibited, but who by? Not a planning matter?

 

I'm glad they have decided to seek some kind of approval, but unsure what needs approving. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by magpie patrick

[alias]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

6. Each boat is capable of sustaining itself for about one week before needing new food supplies. All waste will be collected on-board. No sewerage or grey water will be discharged into the lake.

I wonder how they will dispose of the collected grey water and sewage without any docking/disposal facility available.

[ditchcrawler]

15 minutes ago, peter n said:

I wonder how they will dispose of the collected grey water and sewage without any docking/disposal facility available.

Well a family of 4 who are not boaters that could be a lot of grey water, couple of thousand liters. 

[David Mack]

16 minutes ago, peter n said:

I wonder how they will dispose of the collected grey water and sewage without any docking/disposal facility available.

And refill water, recharge the batteries, change gas bottles. All to be done by the rowing boats?

[John Brightley]

4 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

I'm trying to work out which bits of this they actually need planning consent for - it's one of those conundrums, one half of my brain is saying "they must need it" and the other "what constitutes development under the terms of the act then?

The application isn't a conventional planning application, but an application for a 'certificate of lawful use'. This suggests to me that the applicants believe planning consent isn't required, but the local authority's planning officers believe otherwise. Therefore the applicants have made the application to clarify / regularise the situation.

[magpie patrick]

8 hours ago, John Brightley said:

The application isn't a conventional planning application, but an application for a 'certificate of lawful use'. This suggests to me that the applicants believe planning consent isn't required, but the local authority's planning officers believe otherwise. Therefore the applicants have made the application to clarify / regularise the situation.

Thank you - I hadn't looked that closely. 

 

Certificate of Lawful Use is often (but not always) for something that is already happening but that the local planning authority deem needs consent. So you may well be right. 

[BilgePump]

If this application is from Lowther estate, they lease the lake to National Trust. 

[Peter Thornton]

“Gentleman’s Yacht” sounds sort of seedy somehow.........

interestingly, this doesn’t seem to have hit the local media, I imagine it will cause quite a storm!

[Athy]

21 minutes ago, Peter Thornton said:

“Gentleman’s Yacht” sounds sort of seedy somehow.

 

Really? To me it suggests something elegant and Victorian or Edwardian in appearance.

How close to the reality that will be remains to be seen.

[Peter Thornton]

I suppose it has an echo of a “Gentleman’s Club” which is usually nothing but........

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, Peter Thornton said:

“Gentleman’s Yacht” sounds sort of seedy somehow.........

interestingly, this doesn’t seem to have hit the local media, I imagine it will cause quite a storm!

There are pictures of the proposed boats if you look on the planning link.

 

[dor]

1 hour ago, Peter Thornton said:

“Gentleman’s Yacht” sounds sort of seedy somehow.........

interestingly, this doesn’t seem to have hit the local media, I imagine it will cause quite a storm!

Quite a few letters from locals on the planning site. They don’t sound very happy about it!

[Athy]

38 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There are pictures of the proposed boats if you look on the planning link.

 

Yes, I did so after I'd posted (cart, horse...). Not quite Edwardian elegance, but not gin palaces either.

[MtB]

7 hours ago, Peter Thornton said:

I suppose it has an echo of a “Gentleman’s Club” which is usually nothing but........

 

There are a few of them in Reading, one of which has cringingly 'verb-ised' the adjective into "Genting Club".

 

A place where one goes to carry out 'genting', I would imagine.....

 

 

[Athy]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

There are a few of them in Reading, one of which has cringingly 'verb-ised' the adjective into "Genting Club".

 

A place where one goes to carry out 'genting', I would imagine.....

 

 

When I was a lad, the pursuit of females by males was sometimes called "wenching". Perhaps "genting" is the same thing but the opposite way round.

[Peter Thornton]

As a local, I can see this sort of thing working on Windermere, but Grasmere seems too small and unspoilt for something like this.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Peter Thornton

[magpie patrick]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

There are a few of them in Reading, one of which has cringingly 'verb-ised' the adjective into "Genting Club".

 

A place where one goes to carry out 'genting', I would imagine.....

 

 

I thought the basic rule of verbs was that they were doing words... I drink, you drink,  we're drinking 

 

I gent, you gent... ???

6 minutes ago, Peter Thornton said:

As a local, I can see this sort of think working on Windermere, but Grasmere seems too small and unspoilt for something like this.

Agreed - permanent moored houseboat possibly, but the circuit available is too small to pretend these things are really cruising. Which may be why the need for planning consent is being tested

 

Perhaps it could be a giant physics experiment on whether Brownian motion works on a large scale.....?

Edited December 25, 2019 by magpie patrick

[MtB]

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

I thought the basic rule of verbs was that they were doing words... I drink, you drink,  we're drinking 

 

I gent, you gent... ???

 

But that's the point, 'gent' is a noun!

 

 

[matty40s]

On 25/12/2019 at 09:12, Alan de Enfield said:

There are pictures of the proposed boats if you look on the planning link.

 

There aren't, there is a picture of a boat saying the proposed boats are similar, and there are 2 sets of plans(completely different to the similar boat), which also state that they are similar plans to the proposed boats.

[Machpoint005]

On 25/12/2019 at 19:47, magpie patrick said:

I thought the basic rule of verbs was that they were doing words... I drink, you drink,  we're drinking 

 

English is flexible enough to co-opt nouns as verbs, and arsy-versy, possibly because of it is descended from several older languages with different grammatical structures.

 

That's why you get so many artificial back-forms (eg "gifting" instead of "giving").

 

 

It doesn't excuse the use of "sewerage" when the applicant meant "sewage", although it was nice of him to confirm he wasn't going to chuck a load of pipe sections into Grasmere.