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Alan de Enfield

Guardian Article "Cyclopaths on the Tow Paths"

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18 hours ago, Onionman said:

Doesn't always end well for the cyclist. The drenched girl on the floor (checking her mobile phone) had come under the bridge and swerved a little too far to miss the jogger on the towpath. Quite a drop. She was blaming it on the jogger for not hearing her.

 

 

So basically on the towpath there was a jogger not paying attention nor running in a manner or speed that would allow them to avoid or stop when they came across an obstacle.

Coming in the opposite direction was a cyclist not paying attention nor cycling in a manner or speed that would allow them to avoid or stop when they came across an obstacle.

 

I'd say they both got their just desserts.

On the road isn't that called proceeding without due care and attention?

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8 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

So basically on the towpath there was a jogger not paying attention nor running in a manner or speed that would allow them to avoid or stop when they came across an obstacle.

Coming in the opposite direction was a cyclist not paying attention nor cycling in a manner or speed that would allow them to avoid or stop when they came across an obstacle.

 

I'd say they both got their just desserts.

On the road isn't that called proceeding without due care and attention?

Under a bridge meant only for a small horse going at a slow walk.

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30 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

I'd say they both got their just desserts.

On the road isn't that called proceeding without due care and attention?

If this were two cars, it would be a straight knock-for-knock case, in other words.

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1 hour ago, BruceinSanity said:

If this were two cars, it would be a straight knock-for-knock case, in other words.

Knock for knock is simply insurance companies' way of getting out of their responsibilities towards their customers.

 

I have a dashcam in my car and if an incident occurs and the dashcam shows I am not at fault, I will certainly NOT be accepting "Knock for Knock".

 

On the other hand, if it shows ME at fault................................!

 

George

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6 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

if an incident occurs and the dashcam shows I am not at fault, I will certainly NOT be accepting "Knock for Knock".

Agree with your sentiment, but sadly this is entirely at the discretion of the insurance company (in my experience!)

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5 minutes ago, zimzim said:

Agree with your sentiment, but sadly this is entirely at the discretion of the insurance company (in my experience!)

If such action affects my claims history and premiums. my solicitor may well take a different view.

 

George

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1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

So basically on the towpath there was a jogger not paying attention nor running in a manner or speed that would allow them to avoid or stop when they came across an obstacle.

Coming in the opposite direction was a cyclist not paying attention nor cycling in a manner or speed that would allow them to avoid or stop when they came across an obstacle.

 

I'd say they both got their just desserts.

On the road isn't that called proceeding without due care and attention?

it's such a shame when someone with a bit of common sense deflates the self-important blimps on both sides of the argument.  :cheers:

  • Greenie 1

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Or is it simply a case of "They're all just bad meat, put up with it!"

 

Such a view may well be a CRT policy decision. As discussed elsewhere in this forum the CRT was established to promote such things as cycling for the leisure and health value to society. Yet they could police their towpaths more effectively. There are security companies that specialise in public events. CRT are no experts in such issue as rogue cyclists. They are a cancer that waterways users have endured to too long. If authorities in London can confiscate electric scooters, there is no reason why CRT could not employ SIA badged staff to "police" the sections where cyclists cause most annoyance.

 

Regular offenders could face prohibition from the network or even confiscation of their bikes. Talking about punishment is not enough. Actions speak volumes. If these rogue cyclists can be identified and suitably dealt with all will benefit and the genuine cyclists who follow the CRT code will not need to feel that the cycling group as a whole is being singled out through the actions of a few.

 

At present I do not feel the CRT can do this. They need a "light bulb moment" to wake them up. Such complacency. I witnessed in 2014 when I went down to talk to the CRT Ranger. He took me to a section of the Grand Union near Kings Cross and a section where there was a temporary walk way where construction was being done. The signs asked the cyclists to dismount, none did, but the Ranger did not think this was a problem. Even though I pointed out the dangers of cycling past walkers on this narrow section. At the time I was trying to get towpaths classified with the narrowest having cyclists banned. CRT had no intention of agreeing to that then. The same view is now.

 

An analogy with the Roman Empire would be the CRT supremo playing on the violin whist the canal network burnt down.

 

Perhaps an on line petition to the CRT might help, but without a firmer hand, there WILL come a time where boaters will not moor and walkers will avoid a canal.

 

I used to organise an evening walk along the BCN in August, but the problem of a member of my party being injured by a cyclist, has led me to withdraw from doing this, at least in the evening where rogue cyclist appear to be more prevalent.

 

.

 

The walk on the BCN this year is being led by a CRT ecologist, I wish him the best of luck!

      

 

 

 
Edited by Heartland

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Not a canal towpath I know, but indicative of ….. errr …… something!

Unless your not on Farcebook, in which case you'll probably not be able to access it.

 

 

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On 27/07/2019 at 17:36, Chewbacka said:

Yes we do or they will continue to be “cycling like an idiot”.   That said, we have laws about zebra crossings and traffic lights which too many cyclists ignore.

We also have laws about not using your mobile phone when driving, not driving after consuming alcohol, not going beyond the speed limit, not murdering people. Yet all this still goes on.

 

Even if what the journalist in this piece suggests was made law, what makes anyone think it would be enforced. It's not going to happen.

 

Put sleeping policemen, bollards, chicanes on popular parts of the towpath. Slow cyclists down by force not by law. And I say this as a (responsible, considerate) cyclist.

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8 hours ago, NB Caelmiri said:

Put sleeping policemen, bollards, chicanes on popular parts of the towpath. Slow cyclists down by force not by law. And I say this as a (responsible, considerate) cyclist.

But all of those actions put restrictions on the disabled which would result in C&RT ending up in court for breaching Human Rights, Equality etc etc.

 

Edit to add :

 

I'll post this again in case you missed it earlier :

 

 

 

Motorcycles_on_Towpaths_British_Waterways_and_the_Fieldfare_Trust.pdf

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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8 hours ago, NB Caelmiri said:

We also have laws about not using your mobile phone when driving, not driving after consuming alcohol, not going beyond the speed limit, not murdering people. Yet all this still goes on.

 

Even if what the journalist in this piece suggests was made law, what makes anyone think it would be enforced. It's not going to happen.

 

Put sleeping policemen, bollards, chicanes on popular parts of the towpath. Slow cyclists down by force not by law. And I say this as a (responsible, considerate) cyclist.

So your basic point is if we have laws they will be ignored by some and so laws are not worth having??  In which case would you be happy if murder was no longer a crime???  

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12 hours ago, zenataomm said:

Not a canal towpath I know, but indicative of ….. errr …… something!

Unless your not on Farcebook, in which case you'll probably not be able to access it.

 

 

A former colleague of mine broke his neck cycling into the back of a van stopped at traffic lights.

Edited by David Mack

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46 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

So your basic point is if we have laws they will be ignored by some and so laws are not worth having??  In which case would you be happy if murder was no longer a crime???  

Not really my point. I think there are other ways of sorting this problem rather than making unenforceable laws.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But all of those actions put restrictions on the disabled which would result in C&RT ending up in court for breaching Human Rights, Equality etc etc.

 

Edit to add :

 

I'll post this again in case you missed it earlier :

 

 

 

Motorcycles_on_Towpaths_British_Waterways_and_the_Fieldfare_Trust.pdf 718.97 kB · 3 downloads

Interesting document, certainly didn't think about those issues. So is the answer for the CRT and/or police to be patrolling the towpath for speeding cyclists (and motorcyclists)? Perhaps it is. I'm sure there must already be laws in place that can be used without going down the route of making more laws. Anti-social behaviour laws could surely be applied.

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54 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

Not really my point. I think there are other ways of sorting this problem rather than making unenforceable laws.

Such as?

 

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16 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Such as?

 

I'd put suggestions in my previous comment (bollards, sleeping policemen, etc.) :) But as Alan replied back with a document on a similar issue (motorbikes), it's clear that it's not as feasible as I had initially thought. I'm pretty sure laws that already exist could be applied here - anti-social behaviour laws would surely include cyclists riding in an anti-social manner. However I suspect the problem will be enforcing it. Who's going to pay to have CRT staff or police patrolling the tow path for speeding cyclists?

 

It's all well and good making a new law to try and tackle the problem but I really don't believe it'll be enforced. The CRT don't even enforce against overstaying and that is already a law. I'm sure they're not deliberately not forcing the 14 day limit and it's about resources but they have the evidence of people overstaying - send them a bill, as the visitor moorings signs threaten but never actually put into practice. Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

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2 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

I'd put suggestions in my previous comment (bollards, sleeping policemen, etc.) :) But as Alan replied back with a document on a similar issue (motorbikes), it's clear that it's not as feasible as I had initially thought. I'm pretty sure laws that already exist could be applied here - anti-social behaviour laws would surely include cyclists riding in an anti-social manner. However I suspect the problem will be enforcing it. Who's going to pay to have CRT staff or police patrolling the tow path for speeding cyclists?

 

It's all well and good making a new law to try and tackle the problem but I really don't believe it'll be enforced. The CRT don't even enforce against overstaying and that is already a law. I'm sure they're not deliberately not forcing the 14 day limit and it's about resources but they have the evidence of people overstaying - send them a bill, as the visitor moorings signs threaten but never actually put into practice. Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

Current laws are difficult to enforce because they are fuzzy, what constitutes reckless cycling or anti social cycling?  So difficult to prosecute.  Better to have something very clear like you must leave say a 1 meter gap when passing pedestrians or dismount and walk past, then it’s easy to use video evidence.  Also should be on the spot fines so no protracted and expensive court case.  Then you enforce by ‘complaints’ as often the most objectionable cyclists take the same route at the same time each working day etc, so easy to catch them.

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12 hours ago, NB Caelmiri said:

 

 

Put sleeping policemen, bollards, chicanes on popular parts of the towpath. Slow cyclists down by force not by law. And I say this as a (responsible, considerate) cyclist.

our local woodland park has steel wicket gates to prevent motorbikes entering. pushbikers have to dismount and hold the bike up on the rear wheel to get through.   ....   then some young mum complained to the mayor that her double buggy can't get through so the council removed the gate.  now any tom, dick or 'arry can do as he pleases.  :banghead:

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15 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

our local woodland park has steel wicket gates to prevent motorbikes entering. pushbikers have to dismount and hold the bike up on the rear wheel to get through.   ....   then some young mum complained to the mayor that her double buggy can't get through so the council removed the gate.  now any tom, dick or 'arry can do as he pleases.  :banghead:

Not really fair if the young mum couldn't enjoy the woodland park with her kids though. Of course, they're back to square one and motorbikes will be running rampant again. Still no idea what the solution is.

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16 hours ago, zenataomm said:

Not a canal towpath I know, but indicative of ….. errr …… something!

Unless your not on Farcebook, in which case you'll probably not be able to access it.

 

 

I once ended up sprawled across the roof of a stepnell van (probably a bedford HA), no damage to me, the bike of the van (other than a few years of people laughing about it)
I have no defence... I was racing, I was concentrating on gaining against someone else and failed to notice the parked van... I was also 7 years old.

 

I was also quite merciless when years later a friend managed to end up riding (on the wrong side of the road) head on into a parked articulated lorry (the lorry was bright white and it was a glorious sunny day)... he was trying to see where a squeak was coming from on his front wheel (It didn't go round afterwards let alone squeak)

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19 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

I was also quite merciless when years later a friend managed to end up riding (on the wrong side of the road) head on into a parked articulated lorry (the lorry was bright white and it was a glorious sunny day)... he was trying to see where a squeak was coming from on his front wheel (It didn't go round afterwards let alone squeak)

On a more somber note, a 17 year old lad who worked for me was riding home on his motorbike and was worried as to whether he had enough petrol. He took the filler cap off and was staring into the tank to try to see the level when he drove straight into a tree on the Bristol Road in Brum. Killed instantly. 

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