Second day living onboard my narrowboat... A little lost!

[nashworth]

Hello out there!

 

I've just moved on board my narrowboat, and am very much a novice looking for some advice regarding electricity. I have 4 leisure batteries along with a Victron inverter. I have had the inverter on constantly for the past two days (without running the engine) in order to power the waterpump, fridge and occasional phone/laptop charging. 

 

My inverter is now reading that is has low battery, from what I can see via other forums, about 1.5 - 2 days running from the inverter is normal. But i'm wondering now, how best to charge the batteries again? Do I just run the engine, and if so how long for?

Does anyone have any tips for low energy consumption for things like laptop/phone chargers (has anyone used a solar or dinamo powered energy bank?)? Can you suggest any alternatives to running the engine? Are solar panels / generators a good idea? 

 

Also on another note, I seem to have no hot water - yet when I have been moving the boat prior to moving aboard I have always had quite a generous amount - I have a twin coil calorifier 'heated by the engine & Eberspacher' - I suppose this means I have to run the engine in order to get hot water - does anybody know if so, how long for?

Very much appreciate any ideas you might have... 

Thanks! 

Naomi ✌️

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Without more details I can only give you a generalisation.

 

Run you engine 3-4 hours every day and 8 hours at weekends.

This SHOULD replace the charge in the batteries and give you a tank of hot water.

 

The fridge will be your "big user" and will take 30-50Ah per day out of the batteries, so taking your battery capacity at (say) 200Ah the fridge alone will take up to 50% of the capacity in 2 days.

Depending on make & model your inverter could be taking 50-75Ah per day just to power itself.

 

 

Have you 'switched on' the eberspacher ?

If you have low voltage the eberspacher will not fire up.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Naughty Cal]

If the engine is your only way to charge the batteries you are going to have to run it for a long time, around 8 hours or more to charge your batteries up. And you need to bear in mind that you cant run your engine while moored from 8pm to 8am.

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Without more details I can only give you a generalisation.

 

Run you engine 3-4 hours every day and 8 hours at weekends.

This SHOULD replace the charge in the batteries and give you a tank of hot water.

 

The fridge will be your "big user" and will take 30-50Ah per day out of the batteries, so taking your battery capacity at (say) 200Ah the fridge alone will take up to 50% of the capacity in 2 days.

Depending on make & model your inverter could be taking 50-75Ah per day just to power itself.

 

 

I have found much the same when living aboard.
550W of solar panels has been a godsend for us, but not much use in the darkest months of winter. We use a genny for day to day charging in winter months as we aren't usually on the move at that time of year. 

3 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

If the engine is your only way to charge the batteries you are going to have to run it for a long time, around 8 hours or more to charge your batteries up. And you need to bear in mind that you cant run your engine while moored from 8pm to 8am.

 

 

Yes not the best way to charge batteries and unkind to the engine. 

[MHS]

If you haven’t already after the above comments. Start your engine now. If you don’t, you may ruin your batteries by tomorrow morning. 

The 8pm cut off for running your engine only applies if you’re moored. If the weather is good with you now, why not go for a 3 hour cruise and give your batteries a better chance. 

[bizzard]

You'll be in absolute heaven if you turn that fridge off. Unless you keep stuff like ice cream in it its not really needed even in summer. If you can do a shop every couple of days like most folk for fresh food and sort through it for longest sell by dates, no problem. I'd certainly turn it off  throughout the winter when you have lights on for longer and telly ect, when solar panels don't work.

[system 4-50]

15 minutes ago, MHS said:

If you haven’t already after the above comments. Start your engine now. If you don’t, you may ruin your batteries by tomorrow morning. 

The 8pm cut off for running your engine only applies if you’re moored. If the weather is good with you now, why not go for a 3 hour cruise and give your batteries a better chance. 

He is putting it gently. What he means is START YOUR ENGINE NOW. It is that urgent.

Edited June 2, 2019 by system 4-50

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, bizzard said:

You'll be in absolute heaven if you turn that fridge off.

Even better - turn off the fridge AND the inverter !!!

[Murflynn]

48 minutes ago, nashworth said:

 

 I have had the inverter on constantly for the past two days (without running the engine) in order to power the waterpump, fridge and occasional phone/laptop charging. 

 

 

 

 

you only need the inverter for 240v appliances.

the waterpump is probably 12v, and electronic devices can be charged from a car socket charger (like a cigar lighter socket).

if your fridge is only working on 240v then as others have said - switch it off for most of the time, and switch the inverter off.

 

I suggest you work out which appliances only run on 240v, and develop a routine for having them (and the inverter)  switched on part time.

 

PS: I am really surprised that you have moved onto your boat without anyone (e.g. the seller or the builder) giving you instructions or advice about how the electric systems should be managed.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Murflynn

[cuthound]

In addition to the advice given above, particularly about runnjng the engine, check to see if the fridge and water pump are 12 volt DC or mains powered.

 

If they are you can switch off the inverter and save a little energy. Car type 12 volt phone chargers waste little energy when charging unlike using an inverter to provide mains voltage to supply a normal phone charger.

 

The reason why you had hot water when moving the boat was because the engine heats the hot water in the calorifier. The calorifier can also be heated by the Eberspacher. Usually there will be a manually operated valve to switch it's output between central heating and hot water. If not turn on the Eberspacher and isolate all but one radiator to heat the hot water quickly.

 You should have hot water in 30-60 minutes with either the engine or the Eberspacher.

Edited June 2, 2019 by cuthound
Posted fractionally later than Murflynn.

[alan_fincher]

It would be unusual to have to run the inverter to power the water pump - usually these are 12 volt, (or  24 volt if that's what your boat is).

 

Do you know that you have a 240V fridge?  Some are 12 volt, (or 24 volt)?

 

There are ways of charging phones (and many other small devices) without an inverter.  If they are powered via a USB socket, get a simple car adapter and wire it into your low voltage.

 

Many people do run systems where nothing is 240 volts, although things like a washing machine are generally not available in 12  volt versions.

[Murflynn]

it may sound a little harsh, but a boat is operated by several mechanical/electrical systems - unlike a house or flat which is just switch on and enjoy.

 

if you are going to enjoy living on a boat you must master these systems and use them to your benefit - do not allow them to spoil the experience.

 

this forum has all the answers - you could do worse than spend several hours searching and reading up on similar problems.

[nashworth]

Hi everyone, 

Thank you all so much for the advice - The engine is running and has been for an hour or so now. I will turn the fridge and inverter off tonight, and look into all of your other suggestion. 

Thank you so much again for the fast and in-depth responses - Once I can get to a coffee shop or something to charge my laptop tomorrow I will have a further look into your suggestions, and get back to you with info on the fridge etc! 

 

Enjoy your evenings!

 

Naomi

[ihatework]

Would 1100 watt solar panels cover "average" use in winter? Boat has a 12v fridge, led lighting etc

[MtB]

Naomi,

 

Lots of good detailed advice above, but I have some general advice, assuming you are not in a marina with a 240v shoreline connection available.

 

Don't underestimate the shear amount of learning involved in getting to know and understand how to generate your electricity. Every drop of the stuff you burn from the batteries, you have to put back in the batteries somehow. You can do this by running your engine, or a generator, or with solar panels. Running your engine and cruising along kills two birds at once. Sitting still on the towpath yo'll still have to run the engine though. 

 

You NEED some instrumentation that you can use to determine the state of charge of your batteries. If you don't have anything, get it fitted and learn tio understand what it is telling yo urgently. A "SmartGauge" is probably easiest but beware, even these can fool you. 

 

Don't underestimate the complexity of the task of getting to understand how you generate your electricity off grid. It is underestimating the effort and learning required for this that defeats most of those boaters who throw in the towel and move back ashore after a year or two, I would say. Treat this seriously and urgently. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, ihatework said:

Would 1100 watt solar panels cover "average" use in winter? Boat has a 12v fridge, led lighting etc

 

No.

 

[alan_fincher]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 A "SmartGauge" is probably easiest but beware, even these can fool you.

 

Unless of course you have at least three...

 

(Naomi - please ignore my post here - it will not be helpful to you!)

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, ihatework said:

Would 1100 watt solar panels cover "average" use in winter? Boat has a 12v fridge, led lighting etc

Another vote for 'NO'

 

Well - unlikely, but it depends on how much power you are using - solar panels will put out 'some' in Winter but probably less than 5% of what it does in the Summer.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

solar panels will put out 'some' in Winter but probably less than 5% of what it does in the Summer.

 

My 24v solar bungs out perhaps 15A on a sunny summer's day. On a dull winter day I can expect perhaps 0.1A. 

 

That is 0.7%. WAY less than your suggested 5%...!

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MHS said:

If you haven’t already after the above comments. Start your engine now. If you don’t, you may ruin your batteries by tomorrow morning. 

Regarding the fridge, and assuming it is a "mains" style 240V fridge, a BIG saving was made on our boat when we discovered that the (Sterling) inverter had a "standby" mode, when it sleeps until something calls for power (the fridge stat kicking in for us.) This saves a huge amount of electrickery for us. I imagine other makes have a similar setting?

Edited June 2, 2019 by Guest

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Unless of course you have at least three...

 

(Naomi - please ignore my post here - it will not be helpful to you!)

 

Naomi,

 

Alan is referring to the fact I bought three Smartgauges (one for each of my boats) but two of them gave false readings. Only one of the three worked properly. The manufacturers appear to have fixed their production problems now though so it should be safe to buy a new one. 

 

 

 

[Bee]

Electricity is difficult stuff to store. Your engine (or the alternator on it) will make a decent amount and then the batteries will store a proportion of it. Then every light, pump, radio, tv, eberspacher (with its fans or pumps) will use it up. The Fridge is a big user, the inverter is too. Batteries are only perfect when brand new, every time you run them down to about halfway and then charge them you might use half a % of their life, after two or three years they are no use except as scrap. So...... you must be very careful with the amount you use. We generally only use the fridge when the engine is running and we are moving, its always off at night. We ration the TV and use candles as extra lighting (careful with them)  Solar panels are good but its hard to get a good supply on a boat. If you want a project that will make you a billionaire work out a way to liquefy electricity and sell it by the gallon, you will also save the planet!

[Murflynn]

18 minutes ago, Bee said:

 If you want a project that will make you a billionaire work out a way to liquefy electricity and sell it by the gallon, you will also save the planet!

hydrogen fuel cells.

[Bee]

1 minute ago, Murflynn said:

hydrogen fuel cells.

Right. I'll be in my shed tomorrow. If there's a big bang in Ironbridge then I'm making progress.

[peterboat]

35 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

hydrogen fuel cells.

Cheaper to burn diesel!!

[ditchcrawler]

If its reading low volts then its probably down to about 11.25 volts and if you have 4 batteries that is somewhere near 400Ah you need to get back into them so you will probably need to run your engine for 12 hours  to get them charged and that is assuming you don't take anything out of them until they are full. The sooner you can do this the better and that is not running the engine at tickover but cruising speed. With that state of discharge running for an hour would only scratch the surface.