dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 I have obtained initial CRT outline permission to create a new offside mooring on a northern canal. This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed, and washwall construction, plus driving in of posts. This needs to be done by a contractor who understands canal work and is familiar with working with CRT. I am really struggling to find anyone willing to get involved with this as its a very small project. Does anybody have any suggestions? People like Land and Water are not really suitable as they have huge plant that they bring in by road and crane so the "mobilisation" cost is likely to significantly exceed the cost of the actual work. ................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, dmr said: This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed, Would this actually be achievable ? I would have thought that the bed would just 'slide' in and fill your deeper part - and - any passing boats will slowly push more into your 'hole'. If the mooring needs to be deeper than the canal, how will your boat get on with a shallow canal ? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said: Would this actually be achievable ? I would have thought that the bed would just 'slide' in and fill your deeper part - and - any passing boats will slowly push more into your 'hole'. If the mooring needs to be deeper than the canal, how will your boat get on with a shallow canal ? Just wondering. Obviously did not explain myself very well. Canal very shallow at edge so needs to go deeper, but not as deep as the main channel. What I meant is that its possibly more than just removing accumulated silt so an understanding of keeping the canal bed watertight might be required. ................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just now, dmr said: Obviously did not explain myself very well. Canal very shallow at edge so needs to go deeper, but not as deep as the main channel. What I meant is that its possibly more than just removing accumulated silt so an understanding of keeping the canal bed watertight might be required. ................Dave Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbeerbeerbeerbeer Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) Only a suggestion: Save a lot of time, money and effing about by moving on to a boat with less draft? ? If you were to have permission to build a pontoon then that’d keep you away from the bank and in deeper water? There’s always Kier ? Edited April 24, 2019 by Goliath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB Esk Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 26 minutes ago, dmr said: I have obtained initial CRT outline permission to create a new offside mooring on a northern canal. This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed, and washwall construction, plus driving in of posts. This needs to be done by a contractor who understands canal work and is familiar with working with CRT. I am really struggling to find anyone willing to get involved with this as its a very small project. Does anybody have any suggestions? People like Land and Water are not really suitable as they have huge plant that they bring in by road and crane so the "mobilisation" cost is likely to significantly exceed the cost of the actual work. ................Dave Only suggestion I can make is to try Alan Oliver, believe they are based in South Yorkshire, they have workboats and plant and do sub contracting to Land & Water. Might be they can help you or advise who can. They have a website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, Goliath said: Only a suggestion: Save a lot of time, money and effing about by moving on to a boat with less draft? ? If you were to have permission to build a pontoon then that’d keep you away from the bank and in deeper water? There’s always Kier ? Would need a draft of about 6 inches to get in there at the moment . A stipulation is that we don't intrude into the main channel which means getting the boats closer to the bank rather than bringing any structure out into the canal. Have not tried Kier but again they probably also have a huge mobilisation cost Need to shift about 40 cubic metres of stuff, this feels like a mountain to me but is barely an hours work for the big boys. Don't want to pay £10k to 15k "mobilisation" for an hours work. ...............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) Whoever you get to do it, it will be expensive! Have you considered scaffold poles with tanalised timber cladding? Can be made to look very tidy. eta: crossed with your reply above. Edited April 24, 2019 by dor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 12 minutes ago, dor said: Whoever you get to do it, it will be expensive! Have you considered scaffold poles with tanalised timber cladding? Can be made to look very tidy. eta: crossed with your reply above. We are expecting some significant expense, but £10k before we even start is not good Not sure about tanalised, is that toxic?, absolutely not allowed to pollute the canal. I fancy recycled plastic but that's surprisingly expensive. Need a minimum of about 8 inches square. There is a company that supplies timber posts in Greenheart etc for this very purpose. .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Tanalising used to be toxic, but I think they have dropped the arsenic. CRT use tanalised posts themselves when installing fabric “piling”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbeerbeerbeerbeer Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 46 minutes ago, dmr said: Would need a draft of about 6 inches to get in there at the moment . A stipulation is that we don't intrude into the main channel which means getting the boats closer to the bank rather than bringing any structure out into the canal. Have not tried Kier but again they probably also have a huge mobilisation cost Need to shift about 40 cubic metres of stuff, this feels like a mountain to me but is barely an hours work for the big boys. Don't want to pay £10k to 15k "mobilisation" for an hours work. ...............Dave Assuming there’s a landowner who will profit from this, the cost will be shared? Probably more than an hours work. ? But hey ho, other people pay £20,000 for a conservatory or a drive for their car, or even a car ( yea bonkers!) So in the scheme of things, if you’ve found your ideal spot then it’s worth the money. Why can’t you convince CRT to do the work? Promise a bat box in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opener Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Nice gentleman at Pennine in Skipton (a Northern canal!) has an interesting looking vessel, moored near their dry dock, which has a minl excavator device on it. No idea if he undertakes such projects - my comment is based solely on seeing him tootling backwards and forwards in/on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 How's about a nice set of davits? You'd only need to shout "slow down!" at aeroplanes then too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Goliath said: Assuming there’s a landowner who will profit from this, the cost will be shared? Probably more than an hours work. ? But hey ho, other people pay £20,000 for a conservatory or a drive for their car, or even a car ( yea bonkers!) So in the scheme of things, if you’ve found your ideal spot then it’s worth the money. Why can’t you convince CRT to do the work? Promise a bat box in return. CRT sometimes park their digger on site, its there now, it would be great to offer the driver a little roll of £20 notes and get it done over a weekend but I don't think the world works like that anymore. If you've got a pair of wellies would you could do it for a couple of beers? There are actually a LOT of forms to get filled in, probably more paper than dredgings. ..............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbeerbeerbeerbeer Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 minute ago, dmr said: CRT sometimes park their digger on site, its there now, it would be great to offer the driver a little roll of £20 notes and get it done over a weekend but I don't think the world works like that anymore. If you've got a pair of wellies would you could do it for a couple of beers? There are actually a LOT of forms to get filled in, probably more paper than dredgings. ..............Dave I’ve got a pair of waders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmelly Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, dmr said: I have obtained initial CRT outline permission to create a new offside mooring on a northern canal. This will need some dredging, possibly deeper than the existing canal bed, and washwall construction, plus driving in of posts. This needs to be done by a contractor who understands canal work and is familiar with working with CRT. I am really struggling to find anyone willing to get involved with this as its a very small project. Does anybody have any suggestions? People like Land and Water are not really suitable as they have huge plant that they bring in by road and crane so the "mobilisation" cost is likely to significantly exceed the cost of the actual work. ................Dave At my present mooring the owners put them in themselves. They did tell me that CART or BW as it was then were very helpful throughout the process. I have never really asked how they went about doing the job but can ask if its any help to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 59 minutes ago, mrsmelly said: At my present mooring the owners put them in themselves. They did tell me that CART or BW as it was then were very helpful throughout the process. I have never really asked how they went about doing the job but can ask if its any help to you. Its not clear if we have to use a CRT approved contractor, or just have our construction plans approved by CRT. I suspect we could drive posts in ourselves but probably not do the dredging. Its already a troublesome pound and if it did leak more in the future I could see us getting the blame and a huge bill, so a contractor with experience and insurance would be good. Once the bottom is dredged, some posts in, and I suspect a fabric washwall installed then we can do the rest ourselves. Will probably need to drive in posts from the water as land access is difficult, if we need a stoppage then I think thats £1300 per week so need someone who can crack on. Still lots of hurdles to overcome but its all very interesting learning lots of new stuff. Suspect CRT are less helpful than BW because they now have less people with construction expertise and rely more on contractors, but so far they have been ok to deal with. ..............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanA Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 I think your last reply scuppers my suggestion of getting a jcb with a long reach arm that you can operate from on land. Probably not hugely expensive to pay for a machine and driver to do the shifting work. At my mooring I have planning permission to create a wooden decking to form a better mooring. However I don’t need to dredge or drive posts in as the deck will be cantilevered slightly over the canal edge and the wash wall is in good condition. slightly confused about how you will create a leak problem unless the canal bank is an embankment or built up above normal ground level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, jonathanA said: slightly confused about how you will create a leak problem unless the canal bank is an embankment or built up above normal ground level A lot of canals are made watertight by 'puddling' with clay. If a clumsy JCB driver breaches the puddling, a continuous leak will be the result. The water table is generally lower than canal water level, hence the need for puddling or the ditches wouldn't stay full of water for five minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, jonathanA said: I think your last reply scuppers my suggestion of getting a jcb with a long reach arm that you can operate from on land. Probably not hugely expensive to pay for a machine and driver to do the shifting work. At my mooring I have planning permission to create a wooden decking to form a better mooring. However I don’t need to dredge or drive posts in as the deck will be cantilevered slightly over the canal edge and the wash wall is in good condition. slightly confused about how you will create a leak problem unless the canal bank is an embankment or built up above normal ground level Some canals are naturally watertight whilst others require a clay lining. As we will need to take out a fair depth of material then if there is a clay lining then we could remove too much of this and compromise the water tightness. I suspect the canal is naturally watertight but this is another reason why we need to involve a proper contractor. ................Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 3 hours ago, NB Esk said: Only suggestion I can make is to try Alan Oliver, believe they are based in South Yorkshire, they have workboats and plant and do sub contracting to Land & Water. Might be they can help you or advise who can. They have a website. Thanks, they look like just the right sort of people. I have one last contractor to get back to me, and if they are not interested then I will contact Alan Oliver. .............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathanA Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 In which case i think CRT will be taking more interest... there will some sort of local ‘engineer’ in CRT who should be able to advise what’s the situation is and what they need you to do in terms of washwall construction. PM me and I’ll try to find the guy who advised the local planning people for my mooring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Todd Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 Don't forget that removing dredging from site today involves quite a bit of paperwork, not to mention payments just in case it us toxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 6 hours ago, dmr said: I fancy recycled plastic but that's surprisingly expensive. Need a minimum of about 8 inches square. There is a company that supplies timber posts in Greenheart etc for this very purpose. .............Dave Noooooooooo! Not recycled plastic.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted April 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Mike Todd said: Don't forget that removing dredging from site today involves quite a bit of paperwork, not to mention payments just in case it us toxic. Yup, I am learning about all this stuff. Dumping the stuff on own land next to the project is ideal. Next best is taking away safe dredgings. Worse case is taking away contaminated stuff, though the extra cost of removing contaminated stuff is less than I expected. Testing for contamination is also quite a big cost and so a big overhead for a small project. Using dredgings to create pond/habitat would be the ideal. ..............Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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