Mooring Problems !!

[Mad Harold]

19 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Do you really need to be in a yard? Online is always cheaper and if you buy a decent generator you should be able to do everything OK. I more or less refitted mine online, and most of the welding got done there too. You've got three months warning - get enough done in that time to make the boat inhabitable, even if basic, and take it elsewhere. 

I'm in Macclesfield, the bloke on the boat next door comes down from Newcastle to fettle his boat. This is only a small country, and you can cope with a few hours commute to the boat if you can stay on it while you work. 

This sounds the most sensible response to the OP.

[ditchcrawler]

19 minutes ago, Peter009 said:

I am not throwing toys out of the pram   I have done my research so please dont assume we have not we are nowhere near the canals and are in a boat yard which have increased their prices overnight whilst in a contract that does not allow that so please dont assume that I should of done my research when the whole boat yard are up in arms about this not just us I know the costs on the GU canal however we was not expecting to move until later this year as per the plans and was told by the boat yard that was not a problem and they have changed this for no reason whatsoever.  

No we are not on the GU we are in Sussex in a boat yard far away from the canals we are looking around that area

We was thinking about the French Canals but with Brexit not sure what to do but that is where we would love to be can you PM me to discuss more thanks

I dont know if its feasible in Sussex but when I fitted my boat out in Suffolk I did it on a corner of waste land that I hired from a local farmer. To be fare you didn't give any indication that you were not on the canal system or that you had a binding contract with the yard you are with.

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, Peter009 said:

I am not throwing toys out of the pram   I have done my research so please dont assume we have not we are nowhere near the canals and are in a boat yard which have increased their prices overnight whilst in a contract that does not allow that so please dont assume that I should of done my research when the whole boat yard are up in arms about this not just us I know the costs on the GU canal however we was not expecting to move until later this year as per the plans and was told by the boat yard that was not a problem and they have changed this for no reason whatsoever.  

I wish I had a contract when I had the same problem.

 

I would have seriously considered court action if I had, especially if I had  the weight of the other contracted boatyard users behind me who were also up in arms.If not court action, at least the threat of it.

 

I don't know much about breach of contract law, but would have looked into it. Appreciate you can't say what action is being taken if you have such a strong case.

 

Oh, just seen you won't be looking at this thread again.

[OldGoat]

Talk about 'doing the research' - this is a CANAL boat forum, thus not unreasonable for members to think that the OP is somewhere on the inland canals and (to some lesser extent) navigable rivers.

Late in the thread he mentions that the boat is in Sussex. To my local knowledge there aren't any navigable canals of any length  (mebe a stub of a canal in Chi:) in either half of the administrative county and there's a reasonable likelihood that there's little or no expertise on here about these local conditions or facilities.

It's annoying in the least to be taken to task when 'we' have been criticised for making judgements when material facts haven't been disclosed.

 

The key is in the title of this forum - "CANALWORLD"

 

ps: I wonder whether the boat in question is even suitable for the UK's inland waterways?

Edited March 31, 2019 by OldGoat

[Boater Sam]

This is the same guy who got upset when told that plaster board is not for boats, he seems to be getting his ideas from elsewhere.

So the boat is on the hard? 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Of course we did research and it is illegal to breach contract terms overnight with no notice when our planned move was already agreed and we were working towards that,  I guess this comes down to again insults because we have a widebeam or as you say bustud boat seriously ! what right do you have to presume anything about us if going to this forum just generates insults then that is really sad !!!  

Not bothering to view this post again the trolls have done their best to try to upset already upset people hiding behind the screen this sickens me is really does why do people act like that with others really sad to see this on here when there are obviously some very good people on here that the others let the site down ....

 

Now you are being inconsistent. In your OP you said they are giving you three months' notice which strikes me as very reasonable notice for a rent rise, but now you claim you are getting no notice. Which is it? 

 

Breaching contract terms is not 'illegal'. The party breaching simply exposes themselves to the consequences of the breach which in this case, will be you suing them for your resultant losses. I.e. the difference in cost between your current mooring and another. You sue them for the difference to recover your extra costs incurred by their breach. As you appear to have a written contract at a fixed rent with no provision for rent rises, this will be an open goal for you in the county court. Point this out to the yard and they will probably back down, especially as I think you suggested all the other moorers there have the same contract, and could do the same. 

 

And yes you're right I dislike huge widebeams hogging small canals and I shouldn't have made that comment, it was irrelevant for which I apologise. 

[Peter009]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Now you are being inconsistent. In your OP you said they are giving you three months' notice which strikes me as very reasonable notice for a rent rise, but now you claim you are getting no notice. Which is it? 

 

Breaching contract terms is not 'illegal'. The party breaching simply exposes themselves to the consequences of the breach which in this case, will be you suing them for your resultant losses. I.e. the difference in cost between your current mooring and another. You sue them for the difference to recover your extra costs incurred by their breach. As you appear to have a written contract at a fixed rent with no provision for rent rises, this will be an open goal for you in the county court. Point this out to the yard and they will probably back down, especially as I think you suggested all the other moorers there have the same contract, and could do the same. 

 

And yes you're right I dislike huge widebeams hogging small canals and I shouldn't have made that comment, it was irrelevant for which I apologise. 

They state they gave 3 months notice previously however we got no such notice via email or letter the rent is going up next week, so we got the email Friday night the next quarter is due on Monday tomorrow and we are expected to pay double with 2 days notice and have had no notification of this at all hence it being imminent, they also state in this email as below:

 

Boats laid up or parked for continuous periods in excess of one calendar year shall be liable to charges at double the standard rate for such parking. 

 

 

Boats laid up or parked for continuous periods in excess of two calendar years shall be liable to charges at three times the standard rate.

 

The period of continuous lay up of a boat or cradle will not be altered by virtue of any change in declared ownership.

 

So in effect what they are saying is regardless of whether we have only owned it for 1 year which is the case we would be liable to three times the standard rate as our boat had been sitting in there since 2015, we brought it in 2018.  This is a huge amount of money and very worrying, there are many in the boat yard that are up in arms about it and feel that they want to take them to court etc, all we want to do is get out of there asap and that is what I am trying to do.  We was always planning to move it and if they needed to put up the fees for whatever reason it is their boatyard but giving us 2 days notice is unreasonable on any level in my opinion and not fair at all, had I of got 3 months notice then I would be doing all I could prior to ensure we moved it.

 

Sorry you dislike widebeams hugging small canals, I assure you it wont be us doing it so no offence taken

[Peter009]

12 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Talk about 'doing the research' - this is a CANAL boat forum, thus not unreasonable for members to think that the OP is somewhere on the inland canals and (to some lesser extent) navigable rivers.

Late in the thread he mentions that the boat is in Sussex. To my local knowledge there aren't any navigable canals of any length  (mebe a stub of a canal in Chi:) in either half of the administrative county and there's a reasonable likelihood that there's little or no expertise on here about these local conditions or facilities.

It's annoying in the least to be taken to task when 'we' have been criticised for making judgements when material facts haven't been disclosed.

 

The key is in the title of this forum - "CANALWORLD"

 

ps: I wonder whether the boat in question is even suitable for the UK's inland waterways?

The boat is in a boat yard in sussex it has never been in the water and was there when we brought it and yes the boat is suitable for inland waterways is yours oldgoat ?

[blackrose]

15 hours ago, Peter009 said:

I am not throwing toys out of the pram   I have done my research so please dont assume we have not we are nowhere near the canals and are in a boat yard which have increased their prices overnight whilst in a contract that does not allow that so please dont assume that I should of done my research when the whole boat yard are up in arms about this not just us I know the costs on the GU canal however we was not expecting to move until later this year as per the plans and was told by the boat yard that was not a problem and they have changed this for no reason whatsoever.  

No we are not on the GU we are in Sussex in a boat yard far away from the canals we are looking around that area

We was thinking about the French Canals but with Brexit not sure what to do but that is where we would love to be can you PM me to discuss more thanks

 

Punctuation is certainly not your forte. However, I have some sympathy and hope you find a way out of your situation.

[Jim Riley]

So the nub of this is that while you have owned the boat for a year its been on the hard for 2 and so a rise has been triggered? Seems to me that the yard have got this covered. 

[ditchcrawler]

It would seem that the yard dont want boats just sitting in their yard for years on end like you often see in yards around the system. As I suggested, see if you can find a piece of farm land, corner of a yard to hire for a year.

[mrsmelly]

On 30/03/2019 at 06:45, Peter009 said:

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, appreciate we have a big boat but we was saving up to do this in a way that we can afford it, i.e look around for mooring all over the country regardless of location looking for somewhere pleasant to live and then change our lifestyle and work around that, we have, in my opinion illegally had our bill doubled due to the greed of where we are and because of the timescale we need to move now,  we still have not changed how we work to enable us to just move it someone maybe even up North where we believe it is so much nicer, we do not want to partiuclarly be around London at all there is no real reason for it other than the fact that from where we live it is commutable as we will not be able to move there straight away and the boat will be unfinished as not enough time.  

 

I hate to say it but this has really upset my wife and with the pressure we have been under with the boat and money we might end up selling as we just dont feel we ever get a break from it all and wonder if it is all worth it.  We are not rich wish we was people assume that because we have a wide beam but we have put everything we have worked for in this and starting to wonder what was the point.  To me the dream is slipping away and am not sure if we will continue the way things stand.

A sad post. I hope you resolve your situation. I learnt many years ago that living on my boat cost was higher than living in my house, considerably so but prefer the boat greatly so pay the extra costs as needed. If its a money saving idea to live on your boat I suggest you cut your losses now and stay on land as it will be cheaper over all. Having said that moorings for such a boat are to be had in the midlands on the trent etc and further north for much less money than south, I moored my widebeam on the Trent also at Sawley and on the Erewash to name but three of many places. Good luck with it all. Edit to add I also had a great mooring on the A and C at good rates.

Edited April 1, 2019 by mrsmelly

[Peter009]

On 01/04/2019 at 07:22, Jim Riley said:

So the nub of this is that while you have owned the boat for a year its been on the hard for 2 and so a rise has been triggered? Seems to me that the yard have got this covered. 

Yes however they  gave us no notice of this at all and it appears they have pretty much done this to everyone in the yard and people are moving in mass, their greed will leave them with no boats left as nobody wants to stay anyway and the people we know are off.

 

Luckily we have found mooring and moving the boat before the end of May 

[Chewbacka]

7 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Yes however they  gave us no notice of this at all and it appears they have pretty much done this to everyone in the yard and people are moving in mass, their greed will leave them with no boats left as nobody wants to stay anyway and the people we know are off.

 

Luckily we have found mooring and moving the boat before the end of May 

I suspect in law that they gave you plenty of notice, as the contract for keeping the boat in the yard - which you presumably signed - states that the rent will increase on the anniversary of the boat being put into the yard.  What they didn’t do is give you a reminder, which many would consider being a decent thing to do, but as far as I can see from this thread, is not required.

[MtB]

9 hours ago, Peter009 said:

Yes however they  gave us no notice of this at all and it appears they have pretty much done this to everyone in the yard and people are moving in mass, their greed will leave them with no boats left as nobody wants to stay anyway and the people we know are off.

 

 

 

This is not the first time a tale like this has appeared on the forum. A yard driving all the moorers away at once. I find myself wondering if it is a deliberate strategy and they want rid, because the current bunch of moorers are making a pain in the arse of themselves. Tenants/moorers can be remarkably troublesome to a business owner who expected then all to be quiet and keep paying the money. They get dragged into disputes between moorers about all sorts of stuff like noise (eg from boat fitting!), parking, dogs, cats, etc etc. Sometimes a sloppy yard manager's response to this is to terminate to mooring agreement of all the disputing parties nagging at him. `"Keeping your head down and not being a PITA" is always a good strategy when you have no security of tenure.

 

But I'm not sure how everyone in the yard can be having their rent double all at once. Did all the mooring contracts begin at the same time?

 

 

[Peter009]

5 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

I suspect in law that they gave you plenty of notice, as the contract for keeping the boat in the yard - which you presumably signed - states that the rent will increase on the anniversary of the boat being put into the yard.  What they didn’t do is give you a reminder, which many would consider being a decent thing to do, but as far as I can see from this thread, is not required.

No it is not in the contract or on their terms and condition it is nowhere, apparently there was an email sent to everybody some time last year however neither myself or anybody else I have spoken to in the yard received such an email and it came as a complete shock to all of us, we are all required to be members of this club as well and there are member meetings and this is also not in the minutes of any meetings.  Personally I do not care as we have found mooring now and will be moving in 5 weeks but there are some in the yard who will be taking them on because they are not in a position to move their boats immediately due to not being seaworthy, this yard is near the sea.  So what they have done for whatever reasons they feel they wanted to has upset a lot of people who are also members of the club and have shares in the club with the membership.  It is highly underhand and no we have not done anything to upset the boat yard this email was sent to absolutely everyone else who has boats in there

[Peter009]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

This is not the first time a tale like this has appeared on the forum. A yard driving all the moorers away at once. I find myself wondering if it is a deliberate strategy and they want rid, because the current bunch of moorers are making a pain in the arse of themselves. Tenants/moorers can be remarkably troublesome to a business owner who expected then all to be quiet and keep paying the money. They get dragged into disputes between moorers about all sorts of stuff like noise (eg from boat fitting!), parking, dogs, cats, etc etc. Sometimes a sloppy yard manager's response to this is to terminate to mooring agreement of all the disputing parties nagging at him. `"Keeping your head down and not being a PITA" is always a good strategy when you have no security of tenure.

 

But I'm not sure how everyone in the yard can be having their rent double all at once. Did all the mooring contracts begin at the same time?

 

 

It is a boat yard not a mooring so all the boats are being worked on at present.  I have no idea when other people's contracts started however this new policy refers to anyone who has had their boat in the yard for longer than a year.  We have had no disputes with the yard or anyone for that matter and do not need to keep our head down as we have done nothing wrong at all bit of an assumption that we may of, however they have just sent this out to everyone including members who have not been at the yard for ages.  We are moving now to a mooring as did not want to be there anyway but luckily have found somewhere nice to go.  We suspect they have other plans for the yard and do want everyone to go however it would of been nice if they had of shared this with us when we brought the boat but probably expecting too much for a bit of decency from that place