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Would soft Brexit mean no more red diesel?

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3 hours ago, furnessvale said:

Without looking up the relevant legislation that sounds a highly illegal way to transport 2000 litres on a highway.

 

George

 

 

Indeed the Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road regulations require you to have an ADR "endorsement" (qualification) your driving licence and that any tank be integrally bunded (IBS's are) if you carry more than 199 litres, plus other requirements such as fire extinguishers. Companies must also employ  a Dangerous Goods Safety Adviser (DGSA).

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10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Indeed the Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road regulations require you to have an ADR "endorsement" (qualification) your driving licence and that any tank be integrally bunded (IBS's are) if you carry more than 199 litres, plus other requirements such as fire extinguishers. Companies must also employ  a Dangerous Goods Safety Adviser (DGSA).

Only if you are carrying in the course of a business.

Private use / carriage is exempt. (as I quoted above)

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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I was driving tractors in 1964 and we use to fill them from a large tank at the farm, the same tank fed the farmers central heating. But we were limited to I think 6 miles from the farm but that may have been road tax, it was road tax in those days.

That is how I remember things as being.

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15 hours ago, matty40s said:

According to radio adverts you can go onto a .gov website which has all the BREXIT answers....?

??????

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17 hours ago, catweasel said:

Least of my concerns, but whatever happens, I think we can kiss good bye to the cheap diesel.  It was only a loophole that was left from trading days on the cut.
I would love a rebate on all of the petrol I have used on boats over the years, not least my generator.

I would have tho9ught that it was more a relic from the days when we thought that fuel tax paid for the roads. 

 

So perhaps a part of the duty should go to CaRT - O, wait a minute, it does! (Since the tax/duty is no longer hypothecated)

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15 hours ago, catweasel said:

I once read that it was from WW2 times that such rebated use was allowed on the canal and other uses, but that of course could be incorrect.
I am aware that UK inland boats have been targeted above other users of red diesel.
Either way I think we will lose it regardless of any brexit (or no brexit.) Time will tell.
Edit: from a skim read and if we are to believe this, it appears that "red" laws first appeared in 1935, and tractors weren't allowed t use it until some 44 years later:
"Tractors weren’t allowed to use red diesel until 1979. The first law regarding the usage of red diesel was introduced in 1935." ://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/rebated-fuel-the-law-surrounding-red-diesel/
I

That article is a heavily edited version of the law.  It is referring to the use of red diesel on public roads.  In 1979 the government was under heavy pressure from road haulage and farmers to reduce fuel costs, including road blocks etc,,  HMG couldn't reduce fuel tax or the private motorist would also have benefited..  They were able to appease haulage by reducing VED, but as farmers didn't pay VED they had to do something different to buy them off so they allowed them a greater radius of road use on red diesel instead.

 

George

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19 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I would have tho9ught that it was more a relic from the days when we thought that fuel tax paid for the roads. 

 

So perhaps a part of the duty should go to CaRT - O, wait a minute, it does! (Since the tax/duty is no longer hypothecated)

That is certainly a valid argument, but unfair on those of us who put petrol into boats and boat related generators for many years, yet were unable to claim rebate (unless anybody can tell me any different?)
Unfortunately I have no recollection of where, but have definitely read that it was a throw back from WW2 years. 

14 minutes ago, furnessvale said:

That article is a heavily edited version of the law.  It is referring to the use of red diesel on public roads.  In 1979 the government was under heavy pressure from road haulage and farmers to reduce fuel costs, including road blocks etc,,  HMG couldn't reduce fuel tax or the private motorist would also have benefited..  They were able to appease haulage by reducing VED, but as farmers didn't pay VED they had to do something different to buy them off so they allowed them a greater radius of road use on red diesel instead.

 

George

Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited by catweasel

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4 minutes ago, catweasel said:

That is certainly a valid argument, but unfair on those of us who put petrol into boats and boat related generators for many years, yet were unable to claim rebate

Why is it unfair ?

 

You made the choice of boat/engine knowing that red diesel was 'half the price' of petrol but you still bought a petrol engine boat.

 

I guess it similar to folks who buy a house near an RAF base and then complain about the aircraft noise, or, Church Bells on a Sunday morning, or ……………..

 

Its called 'making an informed decision'.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why is it unfair ?

 

You made the choice of boat/engine knowing that red diesel was 'half the price' of petrol but you still bought a petrol engine boat.

 

I guess it similar to folks who buy a house near an RAF base and then complain about the aircraft noise, or, Church Bells on a Sunday morning, or ……………..

 

Its called 'making an informed decision'.

True I made the choice, but that doesn't answer the question:  Why should diesel have the advantage over petrol when used in off road situations for leisure?
Hardly a level playing field?

Think of all leisure  petrol vehicles that are used off road other than boats (racing/trials on closed tracks with non road registered vehicles etc.), then there are chainsaws , generators, lawnmowers; I could write a very long list.
As a liveaboard I use a petrol suitcase generator every night (in winter). I use a petrol genny because it is lightweight (my back is knackered), compact, relative silent, easy for me to service, store and other conveniences. Possibly  less polluting than a diesel:
No rebate for me.
I'm paying road duty to wash my clothes and keep my food safe (amongst other uses.)
I could of course go LPG and have considered this, but at considerable extra initial cost and inconvenience (just like a portable diesel genny.)  There is also a big question mark over engine longevity and whether there are any great gains anyway when using LPG though I note Honda honour the warranty, but I digress.


I am of course in favour of cheap diesel, and will do all I can to retain it,  but will always argue that petrol (and any fuels used off road) are worthy of equal status.
I accept that logistically it would be difficult to achieve, but still an unfair system.
 

Edited by catweasel

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2 hours ago, catweasel said:

I accept that logistically it would be difficult to achieve, but still an unfair system.

Red petrol ?   

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2 hours ago, catweasel said:

True I made the choice, but that doesn't answer the question:  Why should diesel have the advantage over petrol when used in off road situations for leisure?
Hardly a level playing field?

Think of all leisure  petrol vehicles that are used off road other than boats (racing/trials on closed tracks with non road registered vehicles etc.), then there are chainsaws , generators, lawnmowers; I could write a very long list.
As a liveaboard I use a petrol suitcase generator every night (in winter). I use a petrol genny because it is lightweight (my back is knackered), compact, relative silent, easy for me to service, store and other conveniences. Possibly  less polluting than a diesel:
No rebate for me.
I'm paying road duty to wash my clothes and keep my food safe (amongst other uses.)
I could of course go LPG and have considered this, but at considerable extra initial cost and inconvenience (just like a portable diesel genny.)  There is also a big question mark over engine longevity and whether there are any great gains anyway when using LPG though I note Honda honour the warranty, but I digress.


I am of course in favour of cheap diesel, and will do all I can to retain it,  but will always argue that petrol (and any fuels used off road) are worthy of equal status.
I accept that logistically it would be difficult to achieve, but still an unfair system.
 

Stan get an LPG conversion for it and also a filler for the bottles [stirring it now] and enjoy cleaner cheaper generating honest I have convered a few and they work well

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15 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Stan get an LPG conversion for it and also a filler for the bottles [stirring it now] and enjoy cleaner cheaper generating honest I have convered a few and they work well

Cheers Peter. I know some are sold LPG ready so that would suggest they should be OK. I was told they need to be run in on petrol but OK after that?
I worked out that if running on 19kg bottles or bigger, that should  eventually make a saving, after paying for the conversion kit. Should be cleaner/safer too. Perhaps it is the way forward for next winter, but might experiment with the little Honda genny that is currently idle. Plenty of solar for now :) unless somebody decides to tax sunlight.........
ps won't be filling any bottles! ;)

 
 

Edited by catweasel
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29 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Red petrol ?   

Possible, but would there be enough demand to make it viable? 
We had green petrol at the electricity board where I once worked, but that was to help stop it from getting pilfered!

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2 minutes ago, catweasel said:

We had green petrol at the electricity board

Did you have green electricity ?  Mine is bright blue when I pull the switches.

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Speaking of taxes... Considering that income tax was introduced by William Pitt The Younger as a temporary measure to help pay for the Napoleonic wars, and we won those, and they were a very long time ago... isn’t it about time that it was abolished?

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27 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Speaking of taxes... Considering that income tax was introduced by William Pitt The Younger as a temporary measure to help pay for the Napoleonic wars, and we won those, and they were a very long time ago... isn’t it about time that it was abolished?

Maybe we are stashing to surplus in case a relative of the short arse chap comes back

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39 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Speaking of taxes... Considering that income tax was introduced by William Pitt The Younger as a temporary measure to help pay for the Napoleonic wars, and we won those, and they were a very long time ago... isn’t it about time that it was abolished?

You'd have thought that the French would have offered some reparations by now wouldn't you ?

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12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You'd have thought that the French would have offered some reparations by now wouldn't you ?

You've gotta be joking.  They have never forgiven us for winning.  One of you guys cruising in France should change the name of your boat to 'Waterloo'....

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2 hours ago, catweasel said:

Cheers Peter. I know some are sold LPG ready so that would suggest they should be OK. I was told they need to be run in on petrol but OK after that?
I worked out that if running on 19kg bottles or bigger, that should  eventually make a saving, after paying for the conversion kit. Should be cleaner/safer too. Perhaps it is the way forward for next winter, but might experiment with the little Honda genny that is currently idle. Plenty of solar for now :) unless somebody decides to tax sunlight.........
ps won't be filling any bottles! ;)

 
 

No problems with them at all after running in on petrol for a couple of hours Stan, also safer, much harder to commit suicide on LPG than petrol ?

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12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No problems with them at all after running in on petrol for a couple of hours Stan, also safer, much harder to commit suicide on LPG than petrol ?

Cheers. Looks like an option.

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