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But if you ask half of boat owners what a swim is they will say its something you do in the pool. Lots of people buying boats today don't know the first thing about them. They go to boat shows and see something they think is nice with all the plush furnishings etc.

Agreed. It's not fatties per se most of us object to, its "narrowboat style" fatties specifically. Here is a sublimely pretty fattie (in my opinion):

Well, I don't like the fat narrowboat ones, I think they are a result of lazy boat design, or in fact not much design at all. Most narrowboats are (loosely) based on an existing historic design, there is not much history of wide boats on English canals to design a half decent `Replica` from so what you end up with is a boxy thing with all the grace of a brick built with little shape and as cheaply as possible. People will say that it would cost far too much to build some shape into them, OK, it would cost more but decent side decks for ease of use and safety and better ends is not hard to do. Just to say, my own boat is `Wide` and a damned hard thing it was to fit out because it is all curves but somewhere between the two extremes it should be possible to do it better. Now where`s my pencil and a sheet of paper,

I've had shiny narrowboaters refuse to share locks, and been sworn at for not waiting for someone to share with when they were out of sight round a corner. I've been grumbled at for being a single hander and moaned at for wasting time tying my boat up at locks by people standing and watching. And cursed for speeding past badly tied up boats at 2mph. It happens to us all, thin boats , fat boats, on canals and rivers. You just have to live with it. Most of us are quite pleasant most of the time.

You do have to remember that anything you get for free has to be paid for somehow, as somebody somewhere has to make a living out of it. And if there's a monopoly supplier, which YouTube is of this sort of thing, then the money is going there rather than to the poor buggers who provide the content. When only a few people were doing it, they mattered to YouTube and so they got paid. Now everyone's doing it, the stuffs pouring in, why should they bother? The only way a vlogger is going to get any money now is via sponsorship, so you'll either get honest ads that look like ads, or just embedded stuff in the content that you hardly notice. As a hobby, it's simply too time consuming - if it takes me virtually two days to produce a three minute music video, I hate to think what it takes in time and effort to produce a decent boaty one, so it's only fair that , if you do watch any particular channel on a regular basis, you at least subscribe (which is free) to keep YouTube happy or click on an ad to give the bloke some revenue.

He used to travel in a sort of camping boat too. I will see if I can find the image. His "handicraft room" Oxford, Cowley. Camping boat

It's not just overcrowding on the canals, because there are plenty of narrowboaters also causing problems. It's similar to the "Bully XL" issue, some owners protesting about the ban on their dogs (which with less than 1% of the population have been responsible for 70% of dog-kills-man incidents in recent years) by saying that theirs is a softy and properly trained and would never bite *anybody*, not like all those other owners of badly-trained dogs -- while ignoring the fact that a nasty aggressive Pekinese is rather less capable of tearing somebody's throat out if things do turn nasty than a 60kg bundle of unstoppable muscle. So when wideboaters misbehave or bend/break the rules or moor like selfish idiots, the impact is bigger and more obvious than if narrowboaters do the same, and so attracts more attention and contempt and abuse. If you're a considerate wideboater (like @blackrose , I assume...) then you might justifiably complain about this, but then you're in the same position as the responsible Bully XL owners -- damned for owning something which causes more and worse trouble when misused, and lumped in with the bad guys. But don't blame narrowboaters for this, blame the idiot wideboaters who behave in a way which encourages this contempt. Same issue as for "real CCers" -- don't blame HMers for any bad feeling between the different groups of boaters, blame the selfish CMers who abuse the rules and make life less pleasant for other boaters, but call themselves "Continuous Cruisers". In other words, blame the selfish a*seholes who cause such issues and division, not the people who complain because they're adversely affected by them and then lump good apples in with the bad ones... 😉

My country estate Boat (This was a number of yars ago. About 20 and its still got the same paint topsides) 40ftx9ft.

No it's not a sign of things to come, it's a sign of things that are already here. Just take a look at any number of threads on this forum. There are plenty of grumpy old gits here. Indeed. About 25 years ago a hippy woman with a dog on the towpath started talking to me about my narrowboat. She was keen on the whole lifestyle. I made her a cup of tea and invited her in to have a look around. As soon as she saw my little honda generator she started slagging me off saying it was bad for the environment. Later I saw her drive off in a big Toyota 4 x 4.

I've no idea whether this is the right thread but here we are My favourite memory when we were cruising was when we did the Droitwich canal. When we reached the town centre there were a few lift bridges where I had to stop pedestrian passage to let boats go by. Our past experience of stopping people or cars wasn't good, we were used to being a nuisance. But, the good people of Droitwich welcomed us, they'd lived with a stagnant ditch for many years and rejoiced in boats

I'd definitely go via Stourport. The Staffs & Worcester is one of my favourite canals. It's very pretty, especially through Kinver and Cookley, and the narrow twisty bends and non-flighted locks entirely prevent boredom while cruising. (My friend with a 70ft boat doesn't agree though!) The Severn down to Hawford is very pleasant. It doesn't feel oppressively big like the Trent does, and you move a lot faster than the canal especially downstream. Unlike the lower end you can even see stuff over the bank sometimes! Wast Hill tunnel to Droitwich is pretty, but the BCN and northern W&B not so much. The BCN is interesting in its own way. Old line a lot nicer than the new from Tipton to Smethwick -- and not much slower; the deeper water makes up for the meandering. I do really like Tardebigge. It seems to go a lot faster than the number of locks suggests, and the view off the hillside is wonderful. The side-pound locks at the top of the Droitwich are neat.

I think this will have been it. He thought a narrowboat would have waited for him to arrive and share the lock. On arrival he then realised why you didn't wait hence his annoyance at you for not being a narrowboat! But a significant proportion of NBers are miserable whiney old gits for whom nothing is ever right or good enough. I think you've just met one. I don't think I've met one of this type on a fattie yet.

Um, motorists don't pay for the upkeep of the roads - tax is not hypothecated in the UK, so those that pay more tax pay more for road upkeep even if they don't have a vehicle.

I doubt you’d start a response with an audible sigh in a face to face meeting with a group in the pub. The point was that a boat moored stupidly is a boat moored stupidly. Whether it’s a widebeam or not isn’t relevant to that fact. There are lots of circumstances where a particular shape or size of boat or the attitude or size of crew can be an impediment to others. In some circumstances a 70’ boat squeezed on the end of a mooring impeding a junction, a lock landing or a winding hole is more of a nuisance than a 50’ boat would be. But we don’t get excited about 70’ boats here because they conform to the collective notion of what a ‘proper boat’ might look like. Not only that the numerous pairs of 71’ 6” x 7’ 0.5” boats moored abreast on the GU are definitely OK despite the fact it’s only officially a 12’ 6” wide waterway north of Berkhamsted. If we’re worried about CRT’s funding issues surely we should be welcoming boaters to the waterways rather than tutting at the shape of their cabins. None of us have any claim to the waterways, and even less to be self appointed arbiters of what is right or wrong. It’s of ultimate benefit to us all to get boats onto the canal in the first place. Then comes the issue of how to manage the consequences.

I think when a video is uploaded, there is some sort of check done on it. That will weed out certain key words or phrases (and maybe images). And AI will make that a bit more effective in future. I recall that during covid, many creators were loath to even say the phrase 'covid-19' out loud, as it would garner extra checking/attention, and probably a ban on the video. Creators now have to mute any bits of footage where a copyrighted song is audible in the background, as that can get their video banned. But in terms of misinformation, the real damage is not done by ads. And it is being completely ignored by youtube. There are countless videos that purport to prove that the earth is flat, for example. Or that the royal family are alien lizards, or that the Q anon cult is totally legit. Etc, etc etc. There are any number of insane rabbit holes that people can fall into once they start browsing youtube. And tragically, all too many people do exactly that, and have their lives and families damaged by the fallout. There were many prominent US youtubers who persuaded hundreds of thousands of their followers not to accept a covid vaccine, and so indirectly caused many deaths. I've spoken to a number of people who even now think that the govt put something into the vaccine in order to help them control the population somehow. Go back a few years and it was 5G allegedly doing all this stuff. But here's the thing- where do you draw the compromise between allowing freedom of expression, versus stopping vulnerable people being damaged by toxic misinformation and mad conspiracy theories?

There's not much that can be done to improve narrowboat hull efficiency once you've gone to electric/hybrid drive -- most of the drag is due to displacement (length*width*draft=tonnage) and draft can't be reduced much while keeping a stable boat which will fit under canal bridges/tunnels, assuming a steel hull and cabin. Aluminium has been used occasionally in the past to reduce draft/weight but is ferociously expensive today. Once you have a decent bow/stern shape with long enough swims -- which well-designed hulls already have -- there's little else that can be done to reduce drag with an almost-rectangular hull in a narrow/shallow canal, as the "eco bow" that was tried (unsuccessfully) some time ago showed what works in cargo ships on the open sea doesn't work on UK canals. An electric drive with LFP batteries is already pretty efficient, something around 90% overall, so there's little room for improvement here. Energy used for propulsion is already smaller than a diesel engine because of higher efficiency, regardless of where the power comes from. So really the only place that big efficiency improvements can come from is the power source. A diesel generator is about 25% efficient, and there's not much that can be done to improve this -- running on HVO does help hugely with emissions but doesn't save energy. Power from the shore is already quite good (UK grid power is heading towards 50% renewable) but the problem is lack of charging stations. Solar is great but there's a limit to the amount you can fit on a narrowboat (and it's not enough) and they're useless in winter -- panel efficiency could be improved (around 22% today) but the more efficient multilayer panels which might push this up towards 30% aren't cheap or available yet -- and are still useless in winter. Fuel cells -- like the boat being recently discussed -- sound attractive (>50% efficient?) so long as you don't look at where the fuel (hydrogen?) comes from, the CO2 cost of making it, and the problems with distributing and storing it (massive).

Nevertheless there is a particular contempt for widebeams amongst many narrowboat owners and contrary to what most of them will tell you, in my experience it started long before overcrowding on the canals became a real issue. Nearly 20 years ago I was told that my boat wasn't a boat and was just a floating flat and on another occasion told that I couldn't go anywhere on it. I've taken my boat on more of waterways than most narrow boat owners I meet including tideways - so I guess it is a boat after all. The odd thing is that so many narrowboaters talk as if the proportions of their boats are somehow "normal". Well yes that's true on canals with narrow locks but in the wider world of boats it's narrowboats that are the oddities. So when I hear people slagging off other types of craft, to me it just confirms the parochial mindset of some narrow boaters.

I think most boat types have been rhe subject of vitriol at some point. I had a snobbish lady tell me I couldn't fit Juno in Bradford Lock - Juno is a yoghurt pot, it would fit but SL felt I shouldn't be on the canal (there were two short narrow boats in the lock already, neither of them hers) - I've also had envy on occasion as when I've find a space on "full" moorings In "Three Men on a Boat" Jerome K Jerome complains about the steam driven launches as he and his friends row up the river. When offered a ride in a steam launch he comments on the idiots in rowing boats who won't get out of the way...

Pricing in any market is used for two purposes, to raise revenue and to reduce demand - to some extent the point of the wide beam surcharge is for the purpose of reducing demand as well as raising revenue. There may have been no surcharge if there hadn't been a sudden influx of the things, especially on waterways that aren't really suitable. The constant pushing of boundaries over the last two decades was going to get a reaction somewhere down the line - large boats and more boats without a home mooring, both with some people seeking to find the absolute limit in terms of size or of minimum movement, and sometimes both - no, they can't stop you doing it, but they can use charges to discourage you from doing so.

This is a true story. It happened a few weeks ago... So there we were. I could see the approaching narrowboat still heading up the canal some distance behind us as the second lock gate closed. A few minutes later with the water level rising towards the top I could see the narrowboat had tied up just before the lock. The first lock gate was opened and then as the second was opening a voice to my left shouted, "I hate these things". I turned to see an old man standing on the edge of the lock starring straight at me. "What?" I said, as I gently pushed the throttle forward. "Widebeams" the old man replied. I just smiled back before turning away as I glided past him. My significant other closed the lock gates and lowered the paddles before joining me onboard 100 metres past the lock where I'd temporarily tied up as planned. A few minutes later the old man on his narrowboat came past, making no eye contact and not saying another word before disappearing into the distance. Afterwards I pondered what had caused him to feel the need to come over and make his feelings known. Was it me/us in particular? Did I previously do something I'm not aware of that offended him? Was he annoyed that we didn't wait for him to join us in the lock that wasn't wide enough for him alongside anyway due to us being a widebeam? Did he think we were just 'rich kids' on an obviously new boat out for a jolly? Was it jealousy? Was he just a grumpy old man who moaned about anything and everything at every opportunity? All these things and more went through my head in the hours and days ahead. I'm not the type to go around antagonising people. Live and let live. Another boater is a potential new friend. I don't care if you're on a rusty tub or a gin palace, on holiday or a liveaboard. If it floats then we have something in common and no doubt many stories to tell. I hope this incident is not a sign of things to come. Is it?

Ah no. I meant if it was new not too late to change it for the bigger one. See how you get on. Even the bigger one is too small to properly break concrete if it’s any thickness. Work from the edges and you might be able to chip away at it and if it’s thin it might be fine. Go easy near the steel. I know it’s not as thick but my labourer knackered a perfectly decent mixer by using one of mine to clean some hardened concrete and manage to put half a dozen holes straight through the mixer bowl. Nothing to lose. 👍

Looks like an early version of "The Love Shack" that used to be in Hambledon Marina. Believe LS was renamed Gypsy Willow a few years ago. Having had a quick Google "Gypsy Willow" was indeed inspired by Henry Taunts boat.

YouTube is owned by Google. I don't think we have to worry about them going broke.

My internet is none too brilliant most of the time, If I happen to end up in a good spot, and rarely do, it makes sense for me to take advantage of that and record stuff for anytime-use.

Why do you think video ads are any different to any other online ads? There are huge numbers put up every day, and many of them are fake or scams, they're only pulled if someone complains -- and the platform takes notice and does something about it. Welcome to the internet -- if you don't like it, go somewhere else... 😉

I have to admit to watching quite a lot of these. They are all very different..... my favs are: Narrowboat Will - he's mad as a box of frogs but is a lovely guy who helps any boater out on the engineering front as he passes.... Ben and Emily - they are a nice 'hippy' couple travelling around - just got a 2nd small boat to do up. Got a female cat called .... Alan! Cruising the Cut - Makes top notch quality videos although more advertising is creeping in. The Rum Wench/The Pirate Boat - Heidi is a single female running a pirate themed boat - likes rum! The mindful narrowboat - probably my favourite, Vanessa is a nature lover who gets great shots - does rhymes and draws her findings... very talented lady The Nomadic Crobot - these two zany people will annoy most on here but i find them amusing! This type of TV will replace conventional TV over time and advertisers have cotton onto it by giving products to youtubers go give reviews (oddly enough they all give positive reviews!). This must be saving the manufacturers a fortune in advertising!

My dear Mrs H, to paraphrase the Bible- if thy tiller offends thee, then cut it off. I shortened my tiller by about 10 inches when I got the boat, because it always seemed to poke out further than I felt it should, and it severely inhibited my freedom of expression on the stern. I would encourage you to think of it as a character and muscle-building exercise. You will end up either a supreme physical specimen, or dead from sheer exhaustion. And above all- never forget that we boaters are a community. If you need some extra muscle to move that tiller, here on the Macc I will be no help whatsoever. But I believe in you Mrs H. PS- of course this is not a blame game, but it was clearly Mr H's fault, and I hope he was beaten to within an inch of his life with the rolling pin, and denied a week's whisky ration. Remember those wise old words- spare the rolling pin, and you spoil the husband.

I have only ever had compliments from other people when I am doing Boating activities. It has been going on for decades and yes I have had Boats wider than narrow Boats including one bigger than most wide beams and yes it did fit on canals but was too big for my liking. To be fair never had one of the terribly awful horrorbox shedlike naff things referred to and never would have one jn a million months of Sundays. Its just wrong. Having said that I don't dislike anyone based on their flawed choice of Boat. That would be rude. Its their problem not mine. If all canal locks were about 9ft wide people in general would be more contented.

I hate widebeams. Not because they are wide, but because I haven't got one.

Some people simply enjoy being miserable, rude and unpleasant. They have nothing else in their lives. So please consider that you did a kind and compassionate thing simply by being there so that he could vent his nastiness at you. It was probably his most enjoyable moment of his day. Or week.

A grumpy sod who uses the word hate far too easily, he has probably been inconvenienced or irritated by a WB sometime in the past I can guarantee you could find a wide beam owner who says similar because its easy to target an alternative group, so WB hate NB and NB hate WB, its casual thoughtless nonsense. best ignored Mind you cyclists should all be hung from the highest tree by their chains

Mine are! And the sheer ugliness of most fatties is one of the objections to them, aesthetically degrading the canal environment. Especially when they herd together. A more practical objection to them is they only seem to go at about half the speed of a NB, and steerers sometimes seem reluctant to wave past a lengthening queue of faster boats accumulating behind. But 'hate' them? Nah. It's the fattie owners than seem to use that word when criticising NB owners for expressing their views about fatties.

You're being wound up, no-one really hates wide beams, ok maybe the odd one or two, but not hate in the real visceral sense, most people who encounter wide beams on inappropriate waterways are irritated by them, it's just an issue of space and of course any widebeam driven in a selfish or stupid way becomes an obvious and easy target. No one cares about widebeams on appropriate waterways but where they mix on borderline wide canals they do create issues, much of which could be blamed on canal maintenance as much as anything else. The aesthetic issue is just opinion and doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, if you like your boat that's all that matters and let's be honest most narrowboats are not exactly things of beauty in the first place

No it isn't.... Is that short for Artificial Lintelligence? Or "Artificia Lintelligence", even! 🤣

You're gonna need a lot of charging points if everyone is mooring overnight on them. What about people who want to stop out in the sticks? They might only need a few kWh of power in just as a topup if they are sensible and have gas cooking. Wasn't there a suggestion a standard narrow Boat can be pushed along with 3kW? If thats true then lets say 4kW so for 4 hours cruising you would only need 16kWh into the batteries. Little and often could work for this scenario. Or a diesel engine