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Farey

Boat Safety Exam

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My  boat's due for another BSS examination in March - has anything changed since last time? Looking at  the BSS site, they seem to want a CO detector now? Seems like a good idea...

 

Also, can anyone recommend an examiner in the Napton area?

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14 minutes ago, Farey said:

My  boat's due for another BSS examination in March - has anything changed since last time? Looking at  the BSS site, they seem to want a CO detector now? Seems like a good idea...

 

Also, can anyone recommend an examiner in the Napton area?

Take your pick.     https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/arranging-the-examination/find-an-examiner/?counties=Warwickshire&search=

 

I've have always used Nigel Carton and can recommend him.  Other examiners are available.

Edited by Flyboy

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12 minutes ago, Farey said:

Looking at  the BSS site, they seem to want a CO detector now?

It doesn't come it effect until May 2019.

 

But - no normal person would even consider not having the requisite number of alarms, legislation or not.

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I think the last significant changes were the start of 2013, so more than 4 years ago.  Therefore your test should be for the same things as in your last examination, I think.

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2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I think the last significant changes were the start of 2013, so more than 4 years ago.  Therefore your test should be for the same things as in your last examination, I think.

BSS was revised (ECP 3) in April 2015

 

 

BSS_rev2_apr2015.pdf

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

BSS was revised (rev 2) in April 2015


A shame then that what is shown on the main page for private boats refers throughout to 1st January 2013!


 

Quote

From 1 January 2013, BSS examiners will be using the revised examination checking procedures for privately-owned, privately managed boats.



However downloading the click on document does indeed take you to a document stating April 2015 (though it mentions "ECP 3.0," whatever that means rather than "rev 2", as far as I can immediately see).

So I would say unnecessarily confusing, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Is it easy to find out what changed between Jan 2012 and April 2015?

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I used Mike Allen last May, he came and did it at Calcutt marina at Napton.

 

No idea what has changedin the BSS, but boat passed just fine.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:


A shame then that what is shown on the main page for private boats refers throughout to 1st January 2013!


 



However downloading the click on document does indeed take you to a document stating April 2015 (though it mentions "ECP 3.0," whatever that means rather than "rev 2", as far as I can immediately see).

So I would say unnecessarily confusing, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Is it easy to find out what changed between Jan 2012 and April 2015?

The changes between 2013 and 2015 are listed in the 1st couple of pages.

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18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 no normal person would even consider not having the requisite number of alarms, legislation or not.

It seems to me  many boats do not have  a CO alarm on board

There have been many casualties.

Goolge easily finds  lots of examples .

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boat+death+carbon+monoxide&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTwLzHguTfAhUsUhUIHXc6DnUQ_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=649

 

Let's not be critical by suggesting people are not normal if they a do not yet  have a CO alarm . But please do encourage people to have a working CO alarm ot two on their boat by pointing out the dangers .

 

I have just this week ordered and received some new smoke and CO alarms for boat and house use.

 

 

  • Greenie 1

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13 hours ago, MartynG said:

It seems to me  many boats do not have  a CO alarm on board

There have been many casualties.

Goolge easily finds  lots of examples .

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boat+death+carbon+monoxide&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTwLzHguTfAhUsUhUIHXc6DnUQ_AUIDigB&biw=1366&bih=649

 

Let's not be critical by suggesting people are not normal if they a do not yet  have a CO alarm . But please do encourage people to have a working CO alarm ot two on their boat by pointing out the dangers .

 

I have just this week ordered and received some new smoke and CO alarms for boat and house use.

 

 

There are two 'problem' groups: those who are unaware of the issues with CO and the need for detectors and those who, knowing of the dangers, choose not to protect themselves , including those who continue to use eg generators in a confined space such as a cratch cover.

 

CO-Gas Safety seem to suggest that there is still a concerning level of unawareness (ie the first group). However, I read the comment by Alan referred to the second group ie those who choose to ignore the recommendation, soon to be requirement. I am happy for them to be be described as "no normal person would even consider not . . ." To put it more bluntly, it is plain daft!

 

However, let's use all available channels to raise the level of awareness and let the 'nanny state' look after the few that persist thereafter.

 

After what could, frighteningly, have made us another statistic a couple of years ago, it surprised me just how far CO can drift within the context of a canal boat, even if not created inside the cabin.

 

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7 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

There are two 'problem' groups: those who are unaware of the issues with CO and the need for detectors and those who, knowing of the dangers, choose not to protect themselves , including those who continue to use eg generators in a confined space such as a cratch cover.

 

CO-Gas Safety seem to suggest that there is still a concerning level of unawareness (ie the first group). However, I read the comment by Alan referred to the second group ie those who choose to ignore the recommendation, soon to be requirement. I am happy for them to be be described as "no normal person would even consider not . . ." To put it more bluntly, it is plain daft!

 

However, let's use all available channels to raise the level of awareness and let the 'nanny state' look after the few that persist thereafter.

 

After what could, frighteningly, have made us another statistic a couple of years ago, it surprised me just how far CO can drift within the context of a canal boat, even if not created inside the cabin.

 

 

14 hours ago, Farey said:

My  boat's due for another BSS examination in March - has anything changed since last time? Looking at  the BSS site, they seem to want a CO detector now? Seems like a good idea...

 

Also, can anyone recommend an examiner in the Napton area?

We have  used Nick Sherratt in Napton a couple of times. Contact details on the BSS web site

 

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/arranging-the-examination/find-an-examiner/

 

Howard

 

C

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We too used Nigel Carton - a forum member, I think, though he's not often seen here at the moment.

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15 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The changes between 2013 and 2015 are listed in the 1st couple of pages.

So almost nothing then that if it was OK in 2013 would not be OK in 2015.

The only one I can see that might go the wrong way is that if a bubble tester is used for a gas tightness check, then it will be held down longer, (60 seconds).  Oh and it can't be installed back to front, but surely it wouldn't work at all if it were?

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2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

So almost nothing then that if it was OK in 2013 would not be OK in 2015.

The only one I can see that might go the wrong way is that if a bubble tester is used for a gas tightness check, then it will be held down longer, (60 seconds).  Oh and it can't be installed back to front, but surely it wouldn't work at all if it were?

And adds additional specifications for both high & low pressure gas piping.

 

But, I agree if it passed in 2013, & assuming the same examiner, it'll most probably pass this year (prior to April 2019 when new additions are planned).

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21 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And adds additional specifications for both high & low pressure gas piping.

 

But, I agree if it passed in 2013, & assuming the same examiner, it'll most probably pass this year (prior to April 2019 when new additions are planned).

Assuming the same examiner - that's the key phrase.  I'm still smarting from having the boat passed by one examiner after a minor rewire (done by an electrician who was also a BSS examiner) and the next examiner failing it and demanding the whole job being done again at twice the cost.  The BSS is a con and a lottery, and always has been from the start.  I've had examiners failing my fire extinguishers, who just happened to have some for sale in his car (at twice the going rate) and a raft of other grief.

Rant over. I feel better now.

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1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Assuming the same examiner - that's the key phrase.  I'm still smarting from having the boat passed by one examiner after a minor rewire (done by an electrician who was also a BSS examiner) and the next examiner failing it and demanding the whole job being done again at twice the cost.  The BSS is a con and a lottery, and always has been from the start.  I've had examiners failing my fire extinguishers, who just happened to have some for sale in his car (at twice the going rate) and a raft of other grief.

Rant over. I feel better now.

I'm sure many / most of us could relate similar stories (I know I can) which I believe why the BSSC is held in such low esteem.

 

The 'principal' is great its the application that lets it down.

Inconsistency of applications is its biggest failure.

 

I know of one BSS examiner who is not qualified / certified to 'do' Liveaboard  boats unless they have a bubble tester, but he just tells the owner to 'nip-next-door' or go shopping for a couple of hours and he therefore doesn't know if it is a liveaboard or not.

Despite the Training and written instruction to examiners to ask the owner the specific question.

 

The BSS Examiner may ask you about your boat's use:

The examiners who are not on the Gas Safe register are advised as part of their initial dealings with owners to ask in advance of turning up at the mooring, about the status of the craft.

To avoid falling foul of UK law and avoiding criminal prosecution they need to find out whether the boat's use will mean they should not carry out a tightness-test using a manometer.  They may ask the following questions, just for their own personal record:

  • Is the boat hired out in the course of a business?
  • Is the boat used primarily by anyone for domestic or residential purposes (In this matter, it makes no difference to if the boat is owner-occupied or rented-out)?
  • Are people invited on board the boat in the course of a business, e.g. is it a café or shop?

Even if the answer to all the questions above is 'no', the examiner is advised to make a brief record that he or she has asked the questions and received the negative answers. This information will not be shared with BSS Office or other parties unless there is an investigation linked to gas testing by the examiner.

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47 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

(snip)

 

I know of one BSS examiner who is not qualified / certified to 'do' Liveaboard  boats unless they have a bubble tester, but he just tells the owner to 'nip-next-door' or go shopping for a couple of hours and he therefore doesn't know if it is a liveaboard or not.

Despite the Training and written instruction to examiners to ask the owner the specific question.

(snip)

 

A pragmatic solution to what is basically a bureaucratic problem 😙

Would you rather get a fail as "unable to test"?

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1 minute ago, Iain_S said:

A pragmatic solution to what is basically a bureaucratic problem 😙

Would you rather get a fail as "unable to test"?

No, I would rather use a person who is correctly accredited to do the work.

 

As a comparison - change you bald tyre for a mates 'good one' take your car for its MOT and get the certificate, swop the tyres back over.

You have your 'pass' but it doesn't mean the car is roadworthy.

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On 10/01/2019 at 19:41, alan_fincher said:


A shame then that what is shown on the main page for private boats refers throughout to 1st January 2013!

 

Sadly, the website has been poor for some time. It was fine, but when it required update it failed miserably. 

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No, I would rather use a person who is correctly accredited to do the work.

 

As a comparison - change you bald tyre for a mates 'good one' take your car for its MOT and get the certificate, swop the tyres back over.

You have your 'pass' but it doesn't mean the car is roadworthy.

The only difference is the use of the boat. Gas does not suddenly become less safe if you are sleeping on a boat all year, rather than a week or fortnight at a time. The examiner is qualified to use a manometer on a non liveaboard boat; why does the chage to liveaboard status make a difference, apart from the GSIUR aspect?

 

Your "comparison" is irrelevant in this case, but would be applicable to the practice of borrowing fire extinguishers or temporarily removing the generator.

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1 minute ago, Iain_S said:

The only difference is the use of the boat. Gas does not suddenly become less safe if you are sleeping on a boat all year, rather than a week or fortnight at a time. The examiner is qualified to use a manometer on a non liveaboard boat; why does the chage to liveaboard status make a difference, apart from the GSIUR aspect?

 

You are absolutely correct - I use my boat (say) 6 months of the year and have a house as my 'primary residence', and its a leisure boat, If it becomes my 'primary residence' it becomes subject to GSIUR regulations.

You could argue exactly the same about my house is safe for me  to live in. but if I rent it out it becomes subject to all sort of additional regulations, yet, nothing has changed with the house, its wiring, gas etc.

 

I tend to be a little cautious in some aspects of my life - in the worse case scenario of a 'loss of the boat' and an insurance investigation showed it was a liveaboard boat but had been passed as 'safe' by an unqualified examiner I reckon that they would not pay out.

 

In 99.9% of times it will make no difference, but the odd time it does …………………………..

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On 11/01/2019 at 10:13, Athy said:

We too used Nigel Carton - a forum member, I think, though he's not often seen here at the moment.

I’m here 😏

  • Happy 1

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11 minutes ago, nigel carton said:

I’m here 😏

Good, nice to e-see you!

 

He's surfaced, Farey: grab him quickly before he submerges again.

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