Stern Gland,maybe?

[rocketman]

Hello one and all..i am a total newbie to the canal so please bear with me., i have been let down by so many people regs my boat repairs plus the guy who sold it me isnt exactly forthcoming with help. Right, i have a 1920s(apparently) Dutch Barge..now i have  an inch or 2 of water coming in and i am told it is my Stern Gland,so i repacked it with grease(it was totally empty of grease) and am ready to give the engine a go to see if it works...now,in the engine house there is water gathering,even when i mop it out it just comes straight back ie a little puddle(half a mop bucket full) of it and it has a fruity smell like water,diesel and god knows what else....what i dont understand is that if it comes back immediately after mopping it out why oh why doesn't it continuously keep coming out and obviously eventually sink the boat or at best i end up with a huge amount of water in the Engine house?       

OR

even better,i am based at Leigh in Lancs, does anybody fancy the job lol? Thanks for reading. 

[BWM]

3 minutes ago, rocketman said:

Hello one and all..i am a total newbie to the canal so please bear with me., i have been let down by so many people regs my boat repairs plus the guy who sold it me isnt exactly forthcoming with help. Right, i have a 1920s(apparently) Dutch Barge..now i have  an inch or 2 of water coming in and i am told it is my Stern Gland,so i repacked it with grease(it was totally empty of grease) and am ready to give the engine a go to see if it works...now,in the engine house there is water gathering,even when i mop it out it just comes straight back ie a little puddle(half a mop bucket full) of it and it has a fruity smell like water,diesel and god knows what else....what i dont understand is that if it comes back immediately after mopping it out why oh why doesn't it continuously keep coming out and obviously eventually sink the boat or at best i end up with a huge amount of water in the Engine house?       

OR

even better,i am based at Leigh in Lancs, does anybody fancy the job lol? Thanks for reading. 

A picture of your stern gland set up would be necessary to give an informed opinion, and depending on the type, repacking will involve fitting new packing and not just grease. 

[rocketman]

Thankyou. I forgot to mention which was the reason for my initial post was that i do not know where the Stern Gland is located. I am lead to believe it is under the wheelhouse near the propeller where the water is coming in. I can see nothing there.

 

[Stilllearning]

Welcome to the forum. 

To help with advice, it usually is best if you can give as much info as possible, such as engine make/model, gearbox etc. Photos help the most though.

[philjw]

Hi Rocketman,

A few questions:

Can you see water dripping from the stern gland? Try placing a container under it like an old ice cream tub. See if the puiddle still appears.
Modern stern glands, unless they are of the sealed kind, dont rely on grease. Those mostly used on narrowboats have gland packing (a kind pf greasy rope) which squeezes tightly around the shaft. They have a way to tighten them, either nuts & bolts or screwed rings
Are you sure that the water is not leaking coolant? Is the level going down in the header tank?  Dip your finger in the puddle - does it smell sweet? If you are brave taste it. If sweet it will be anti freeze. Beware though ant freeze is toxic.
Do you have a bildge pump? If so set on automatic.

 

The stern gland is where the prop shaft exits the interior of the boat through the stern post. The prop is on the other (wet) side.

Edited December 29, 2018 by philjw
Additional info

[Dr Bob]

Welcome to the forum.

I dont know enough about the layout of a dutch barge so cant really answer about water in the bilge but a lot of boats have such a flat bottom that if you find a pool of water and clean it up, water from the rest of the floor will flow back to that area. Therefore keep mopping it up ie ten or more bucket fulls and see if it stops collecting there. Having put some grease in the stern gland it may have stemmed the leak now and you are just seeing the water that has come in in the past month. Then again, you may have a leaking window, leaking water pipes etc. Running the engine in gear might increase the leak if it is coming from the stern gland.

Mop all the water out and if it is still collecting then get someone to look at it. Hopefully someone on here will volunteer to come out.

If it is coming in too quick and you cant find anyone, call RCR (River Canal Rescue). They will charge you to come out, but they will help diagnose the issue. Then join the RCR for future problems like this!

[Stilllearning]

The stern gland is the tube out through which the propeller shaft passes at the very rear end of the boat. It will, or should, have a tube attached to it that comes from some sort of grease co trainer that can be turned to push a small amount of grease into the outer tube that goes round the prop shaft. So follow the prop shaft from the back of the gearbox aft, till you reach the hull, and there will be the stern gland.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Stilllearning

[Boater Sam]

Read a book or 2.

[Stilllearning]

A picture of the boat will help us to help you. If it is an old Dutch boat, then I believe the Dutch Barge Association is the group for you to join for the most specific help.

[Tony Brooks]

This may help - plenty mote here for your education: http://www.tb-training.co.uk/10sgear.htm#bmn26

[rocketman]

Thankyou to everybody for the rapid response...i am going back upto the Marina and am going to give the Engine a good running whilst continuing to mop, mop and mop some more,hopefully it will give me a clearer indication..finding the dam stern gland would be a huge help:/... I am particularly interested in the coolant comment although with the amount that i have mopped out in the last few months would mean there is nothing left in the coolant tank,but there is enough still in it  to suggest that it isnt the problem unless there is lots to come out of the pipes still. It certainly looks like coolant now you mention it tbh,like a red tinge to the water but pretty sure it isnt Diesel. Ah well,here goes. Thanks again for the kind replies although the" read a book or 2" comment  wasn't really helpful as i do not know the make/model etc of the boat, as the previous owner is a pure clown.

18 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

This may help - plenty mote here for your education: http://www.tb-training.co.uk/10sgear.htm#bmn26

Thanks Tony.

[Boater Sam]

I was not suggesting that your boat had a handbook, very few will have, but that you read some books about boats in general. The various magazines for narrow boats and canal users will give you lots of general information about how boats are built and the routine maintenance required. My comment could be the most helpful you ever get.

 

If the water is red and you are not floating in the Red Sea, it would suggest that it is engine coolant in the bilge. Tastes sweet, antifreeze.

 

If is not water, it is red diesel fuel, oily smelly stuff, sets on fire if soaked into anything, floats on top of water, won't mix.

 

Stern gland is the last thing on the prop shaft from the gearbox before it goes through the hull to the outside and the propeller.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Boater Sam

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, rocketman said:

Right, i have a 1920s(apparently) Dutch Barge..now i have  an inch or 2 of water coming in

Just a thought, did you have a survey conducted before you bought the boat ?

What did the surveyor say about the condition of the Hull ?

 

This question just occurred to me as a friend has a 1920 DB and last year when it went in for backing it was found that the Hull was full of tiny little perforations and the water was slowly percolating thru' into the Hull - it was an immediate "don't go back into the water until overplated moment".

 

Your red tinted water could be antifreeze (from either the engine cooling system, or the central heating system), it could be just iron-oxide, (dissolved iron from the Hull) or it could be someone had spilt a tin of tomato soup in the bilges.

You do really need to get to the 'bottom of it' and correct any problem found.

[dmr]

If you have just purchased a 1920's dutch barge and have almost zero knowledge of boats then you or either very brave or just very reckless.

Did the survey point out anything that might explain your current problem? You did get a survey?

I suspect you are here as a Troll to wind up the forum, but if you are genuine you really need to find somebody who knows about boats to spend some time with you and teach you the basics. You might need to pay for this.

 

You will get mixed advice from this forum, there are some experienced boaty people here, but also some people who enjoy talking on forums but don't have a boat or know very much about boats. You need some basic knowledge so you can at least decide which advice to believe.

 

I suspect you are a troll from Chunderboat so that you can have a laugh at those people here who know little about boats but still give advice. ?

 

...............Dave

[rocketman]

10 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

I was not suggesting that your boat had a handbook, very few will have, but that you read some books about boats in general. The various magazines for narrow boats and canal users will give you lots of general information about how boats are built and the routine maintenance required. My comment could be the most helpful you ever get.

 

If the water is red and you are not floating in the Red Sea, it would suggest that it is engine coolant in the bilge. Tastes sweet, antifreeze.

 

If is not water, it is red diesel fuel, oily smelly stuff, sets on fire if soaked into anything, floats on top of water, won't mix.

 

Stern gland is the last thing on the prop shaft from the gearbox before it goes through the hull to the outside and the propeller.

Thanks Sam,i will endeavour mate.

1 minute ago, dmr said:

If you have just purchased a 1920's dutch barge and have almost zero knowledge of boats then you or either very brave or just very reckless.

Did the survey point out anything that might explain your current problem? You did get a survey?

I suspect you are here as a Troll to wind up the forum, but if you are genuine you really need to find somebody who knows about boats to spend some time with you and teach you the basics. You might need to pay for this.

 

You will get mixed advice from this forum, there are some experienced boaty people here, but also some people who enjoy talking on forums but don't have a boat or know very much about boats. You need some basic knowledge so you can at least decide which advice to believe.

 

I suspect you are a troll from Chunderboat so that you can have a laugh at those people here who know little about boats but still give advice. ?

 

...............Dave

WTF...I just gave my location and if somebody fancies the job then feel free to come and meet me at the Marina..Pennington Wharf,where i am going back to right now. Jesus tonight man.

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Just a thought, did you have a survey conducted before you bought the boat ?

What did the surveyor say about the condition of the Hull ?

 

This question just occurred to me as a friend has a 1920 DB and last year when it went in for backing it was found that the Hull was full of tiny little perforations and the water was slowly percolating thru' into the Hull - it was an immediate "don't go back into the water until overplated moment".

 

Your red tinted water could be antifreeze (from either the engine cooling system, or the central heating system), it could be just iron-oxide, (dissolved iron from the Hull) or it could be someone had spilt a tin of tomato soup in the bilges.

You do really need to get to the 'bottom of it' and correct any problem found.

Thanks Alan i will get to the bottom of it..thanks for the reply i will update any progress,wish me luck:/

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, rocketman said:

Thanks Alan i will get to the bottom of it..thanks for the reply i will update any progress,wish me luck:/

Did you have a survey before purchase ?

 

(Good luck)

[BWM]

As you stated that you had filled the stern gland with grease, and that it was empty i am interested in why you don't know where it is. If it is safe to assume that you turned the stern tube greaser and that is remote from the stern tube, and that this required loads of turns, it would be wise to suspect that the packing has either disintegrated or that the assembly needs tightening. As others have said, if you follow the propshaft it will be at the end where it leaves the boat. If your drive is hydraulic, either follow these to the stern or trace the tube leaving the greaser. Either way, it will be situated at the centre of the stern of your craft. Then post a picture. 

[Richard10002]

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Did you have a survey before purchase ?

 

(Good luck)

I don’t think he did  

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I don’t think he did  

I think you may be correct - he has been asked 3 times now (but he did say he was on the way to the boat so maybe not 'on-line')

lets wait and see.

[Bee]

If the boat sits down further at the back than the front, which is usually the case, then the water is running from the front to the back, you take a bucketful out and then it finds its own level  - more water appears.  You need to take floorboards up. Start at the front. Dry? move down the boat till you find where it starts to get wet. Work out why. Dry out the whole bottom as much as possible then you will know where it is coming from. Could be all sorts of reasons. Whatever the reason it will be fixable.

[howardang]

2 hours ago, rocketman said:

Thankyou to everybody for the rapid response...i am going back upto the Marina and am going to give the Engine a good running whilst continuing to mop, mop and mop some more,hopefully it will give me a clearer indication..finding the dam stern gland would be a huge help:/... 

Thanks Tony.

Go to the engine. Find the shaft coming out of the rear of the engine. Follow it until it reaches the very back of the boat. Where is goes through the hull to the propeller is where the stern gland is situated. The gland is equipped with packing and filled with grease to form a watertight seal and usually has some form of adjusting nuts to stop any leaks which may arise. Take a photo of it and post it on here if you need any more help, but may I also suggest that you ask a nearby fellow boat owner to point it out. And finally, if you are going to continue being a boater, it would be very helpful if you learn't just a little about boats, ideally before you spend a lot of cash on buying one!  

 

Howard

[Phil Ambrose]

3 hours ago, dmr said:

If you have just purchased a 1920's dutch barge and have almost zero knowledge of boats then you or either very brave or just very reckless.

Did the survey point out anything that might explain your current problem? You did get a survey?

I suspect you are here as a Troll to wind up the forum, but if you are genuine you really need to find somebody who knows about boats to spend some time with you and teach you the basics. You might need to pay for this.

 

You will get mixed advice from this forum, there are some experienced boaty people here, but also some people who enjoy talking on forums but don't have a boat or know very much about boats. You need some basic knowledge so you can at least decide which advice to believe.

 

I suspect you are a troll from Chunderboat so that you can have a laugh at those people here who know little about boats but still give advice. ?

 

...............Dave

Grow up Dave.

Phil

[dmr]

4 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

Grow up Dave.

Phil

I'm pretty grown up but and not as gullible as some on here. 

We have quite a lot of Trolling on this forum, some of which comes from Thunderboat.
Its not everyday that somebody buys a 1920's Dutch barge with zero experience of boating, why should I not be just a little bit suspicious???

 

Or are you concerned that I said some posters here know very little about boats....in that case why don't you re-read the thread?????

 

.............Dave

[Phil Ambrose]

24 minutes ago, dmr said:

I'm pretty grown up but and not as gullible as some on here. 

We have quite a lot of Trolling on this forum, some of which comes from Thunderboat.
Its not everyday that somebody buys a 1920's Dutch barge with zero experience of boating, why should I not be just a little bit suspicious???

 

Or are you concerned that I said some posters here know very little about boats....in that case why don't you re-read the thread?????

 

.............Dave

It was your assertion that the OP is a Troll and likely to come from Thunderboat that gave me cause to make my comment. All you do by making such comments is to inadvertently stir the pot, there was no need to reference Thunderboat it would have been sufficient for you to suggest the OP was a Troll if you really felt that to be the case.

Your assertion has no grounds and while I don't know if the OP is a Troll I have even less knowledge of where the supposed Troll comes from.

Phil

Edited December 29, 2018 by Phil Ambrose

[dmr]

9 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

It was your assertion that the OP is a Troll and likely to come from Thunderboat that gave me cause to make my comment. All you do by making such comments is to inadvertently stir the pot, there was no need to reference Thunderboat it would have been sufficient for you to suggest the OP was a Troll if you really felt that to be the case.

Your assertion has no grounds and while I don't know if the OP is a Troll I have even less knowledge of where the supposed Troll comes from.

Phil

Ah yes, I forgot, I think you are a Thunderboat supporter ?.

The only trolls that I have identified here been thunderboaters, but then I have not identified enough for statistical significance.

I have my own personal reasons for been very suspicious of thunderboat but am not going to discuss that here.

More importantly I have thought about the original post a bit more and although there is some troll characteristics I am pretty sure that the op is genuine and so I apologise to him.

 

So, to the op, keep mopping out the water every day and see if it stops, old towels are good for this and every boat should have a stash of these. Antifreeze usually has a spectacularly bitter taste so is easy to identify. Maybe you could wring the towels out into a bucket to get a measure of how much you have, there is often a whole let less than you think.  Lots of boats have a bit of water in the bottom, especially in winter.

 

................Dave